Best club all-time xi

[Bertje]

I was thinking of all-time club squads and was thinking which would be the best. Ofcourse using players that would actually function well as a team instead of the typical six forwards formations. The first two that came to mind where obviously AC Milan and Real Madrid, but I am sure there must be some surprises. Also remember to take the form a player had at that club into account. For example Romario was a great player at PSV, but obviously was much better at Barcelona.

[Bertje]

I will do my Ajax xi:

--------------Van Basten--------------
-Keizer--------------------------Finidi-
----------------Cruijff-----------------
--------Davids----------Neeskens------
----------------Rijkaard---------------
--Krol----------Vasovic-------Suurbier--
---------------------------------------
--------------Van der Sar--------------

The hardest was to decide who to place on the wings. Bergkamp could play on the wing, but he would go for the goal a lot. While he might have scored some of his fantastic goals I feel he would have gotten in the way of the superduo of Cruijff and Van Basten. So I went for Keizer on the left and either Swart or Finidi on the right. Swart was a better header of the ball, but Finidi had a better cross, was better on the ball and was smarter. So I took Finidi.

Van Basten to score whenever there is the slightest chance or chance of having a chance. Keizer is a plague to his marker with the perfect execution of the scissor and Finidi guaranties assists and will also be making space for Cruijff to go deep ocasionally. Cruijff is my tactician and is also the perfect partner for Van Basten. Cruijff can cut into the box like no other and will also be directing the game.
Neeskens and Davids are my box to box players and also provide steal in midfield not many teams can challenge. Rijkaard protects both my defenders and Cruijff. When in possession he moves close to Cruijff's position and gives him cover. If I am not in possession he will drop a little deeper to act as a sweeper in midfield infront of my defense.
Krol is great at starting attacks and an excelent defender who can play in any position in defense. Suurbier is one of the fastest players the game has ever seen and makes playing on off-side a whole lot easier. He also was an excelent marker. Vasovic is what keeps my defense together. He coud start attacks like no other and was a rock in defense.
Van der Sar was an easy choice as he was by far the best goalkeeper Ajax has ever had.

Not sure if it will be able to challenge the likes of Real and Milan, but this sure would be one amazing team.

[minorthreat]

--------Puskas------Hugo Sanchez------
----------------di Stefano--------------
--Gento------------------------del Sol--
----------------Redondo----------------
-RC----Santamaria----Hierro----Breitner-
----------------Zamora-----------------

Other Real Madrid fans may disagree, but this is what I'd put out there. Di Stefano could theoretically play anywhere, so I moved him to attacking midfield to make room for Hugo Sanchez up front. I think this would be perfectly capable of functioning as an actual team - while the left might get exposed because Gento and Roberto Carlos are such attacking-minded players, they both have more than enough pace and stamina to track back when necessary (not to mention the fact that a defense consisting of two brilliant readers of the game and the Divine One in goal should have no problem dealing with a little exposure).

[Real Ray]

We can have fun with Real Madrid. Del Sol actually started at outside left midfield if I'm not mistaken. And I might be inclined to put Camacho in at left back in with this group. Although Didi's years at Madrid were not so great, in this role I might like him-he was known as such a patient player that I think might be OK here playing off Di Stefano. He certainly matches the class of the rest of the group.


----Gento-------Di Stefano----Puskas


----Del Sol---------Didi---------Zidane


Camacho-----Hierro----Santamaria------Breitner


-------------------Zamora

[babaorum]

We can have fun with Real Madrid. Del Sol actually started at outside left midfield if I'm not mistaken. And I might be inclined to put Camacho in at left back in with this group. Although Didi's years at Madrid were not so great, in this role I might like him-he was known as such a patient player that I think might be OK here playing off Di Stefano. He certainly matches the class of the rest of the group.


----Gento-------Di Stefano----Puskas


----Del Sol---------Didi---------Zidane


Camacho-----Hierro----Santamaria------Breitner


-------------------Zamora


I'd pick Kopa somewhere, maybe instead of Didi.

[Real Ray]

I'd pick Kopa somewhere, maybe instead of Didi.

I thought about that, but he's too much like Di Stefano in style/position. In fact there's a famous quote by Kopa where he jokes about why they even bothered to sign since they already had Di Stefano (he was pushed out to right wing for this reason).

[Stud83]

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113178

[Spartak]

I think Real and Milan are a step ahead of every other club. Obviously I'd go with Milan do to our big advantage on defense. But Real do have a really good attack. Juve would also make a great team.

[Sempre]

I think Real and Milan are a step ahead of every other club. Obviously I'd go with Milan do to our big advantage on defense. But Real do have a really good attack. Juve would also make a great team.

How would you organize an all-time Milan XI?

[Stud83]

How would you organize an all-time Milan XI?

Look at the link, it's on the first page.

[Gregoriak]

Bayern Munich



-----------------Rummenigge-----------Muller

---------------------------Effenberg

------------Brehme-------------------------Scholl

---------------------------Matthaeus

----Breitner----Schwarzenbeck----Beckenbauer----Sagnol

-----------------------------Kahn

[arthur d]

Bayern Munich



-----------------Rummenigge-----------Muller

---------------------------Effenberg

------------Brehme-------------------------Scholl

---------------------------Matthaeus

----Breitner----Schwarzenbeck----Beckenbauer----Sagnol

-----------------------------Kahn


Nice team, but why did you choose Kahn over Maier and Sagnol over Breitner? I find this a difficult decision but I would have definitely gone for Maier, and probably for Breitner.

[Gregoriak]

Nice team, but why did you choose Kahn over Maier and Sagnol over Breitner? I find this a difficult decision but I would have definitely gone for Maier, and probably for Breitner.


Paul is playing in his early-70s left full back position. Bayern have always had a problem at good right full backs. In the 70s it was Johnny Hansen, solid but not spectacular. In the 80s myriads of players were tried, none of them all-time material. Jorginho could have been an option, but his success at Bayern was not that grandiose (no European trophy), and he played LB most of the time anyway, so I ended up with Willy Sagnol, who is a pretty good right back and he also has won the highest trophy. I think he's better than Johnny Hansen. Could have put Breitner at right back but he rarely played at that position. Bayern's right back dilemma btw is also highlighted by the All-Time XI voted for by Bayern fans earlier this year - at RB, people voted Augenthaler, who had to be moved from CB to RB in order to have a decent player in that position, even if he's misplaced (Hansen too obscure to Bayern fans these days and Sagnol to recent...).

I could have moved Breitner from full back to his 80s midfield general position, but then I would have had to throw Effenberg out - considering that Bayern failed to win a European trophy under Breitner's leadership, I simply couldn't do that.

Regarding Kahn/Maier - I always rotate these two in all-time XI, as I think both a roughly equal. The next all-time XI will see Sepp between the posts. Same with Uli Hoeness, btw, who could take either Scholl's or Brehme's position.

[Duck Manson]

I think Real and Milan are a step ahead of every other club.why would you think that? look at the 1982 azzurri squad. maybe youll change your mind ;)

anyway, somethin like this maybe (i know; too many playmakers)

----------------Zoff
--Gentile--Scirea--Ferrara--Zambrotta
-------------Deschamps
------Platini----Baggio----Zidane
---------Charles----Del Piero

bench: Buffon, Thuram, Tardelli, Boniek, Cabrini, Laudrup, Bettega, Nedved, Sivori

[Spartak]

why would you think that? look at the 1982 azzurri squad. maybe youll change your mind ;)

OK. But the 1994 Azzurri were made up largely of Milan players as well: Costacurta, Maldini, Baresi, Tassotti, Albertini, Evani, Donadoni, and Massaro. And if they were abit more lucky they would also have won a WC and every Italian would rate that team to be as good as the 1982 team.

[Duck Manson]

OK. But the 1994 Azzurri were made up largely of Milan players as well: Costacurta, Maldini, Baresi, Tassotti, Albertini, Evani, Donadoni, and Massaro. And if they were abit more lucky they would also have won a WC and every Italian would rate that team to be as good as the 1982 team.i agree. but i think only maldini and Baresi are/will be legends like Zoff, Scirea, Cabrini, Rossi, Gentile. 1994 would probably have been remembered mostly for what Baggio did. not as much as Platini in 84 and Maradona in 86, but pretty damn close. if he had scored the winner in regulation, however, that would have been it. in 50 years no one would even know who Baggios teammates was.

[Spartak]

i agree. but i think only maldini and Baresi are/will be legends like Zoff, Scirea, Cabrini, Rossi, Gentile. 1994 would probably have been remembered mostly for what Baggio did. not as much as Platini in 84 and Maradona in 86, but pretty damn close. if he had scored the winner in regulation, however, that would have been it. in 50 years no one would even know who Baggios teammates was.
And if W. Germany would have beat Italy in the 1982 final nobody would rate Scirea, Cabrini, Rossi, and Gentile amongst the all-time greats. The fact that they won the WC elevates them higher than maybe their talents really were. You also have to remember that the Italy 1994 squad was playing with their two best players injured(Baggio, Baresi). If they are healthy who knows what happens. I actually feel if a completely healthy '94 squad faces an '82 squad the '94 squad wins. But thats just personal bias ;)

And it's arguable that Italy's best squad post-WWII was not the 1970, 1982, or 1994 teams. It was the 3rd place finishers in 1990. But to win it takes more than just talent. It takes abit of luck as well.

[Sempre]

And if W. Germany would have beat Italy in the 1982 final nobody would rate Scirea, Cabrini, Rossi, and Gentile amongst the all-time greats. The fact that they won the WC elevates them higher than maybe their talents really were. You also have to remember that the Italy 1994 squad was playing with their two best players injured(Baggio, Baresi). If they are healthy who knows what happens. I actually feel if a completely healthy '94 squad faces an '82 squad the '94 squad wins. But thats just personal bias ;)

And it's arguable that Italy's best squad post-WWII was not the 1970, 1982, or 1994 teams. It was the 3rd place finishers in 1990. But to win it takes more than just talent. It takes abit of luck as well.

1. You can't include Scirea in that statement. Had there never
been a Baresi or Beckenbauer, Scirea is the greatest sweeper in
the history of the game, and in purely aesthetic terms the most
elegant defender.

2. I would disagree. Italy's 1970 squad was IMO the greatest of
their post-WWII editions and were just unlucky to face the best
WC team of all time in the final after a grueling match in the semis.
And it might have been a different game had Valcareggi had the
balls to play Rivera and Mazzola together.

I loved the 1990 Azzurri midfield and defense, but that team
lacked for a killer striker (Schillaci was a flash in the pan). I'll
take Rivera and Mazzola in midfield and Riva up front any day.

[Duck Manson]

And if W. Germany would have beat Italy in the 1982 final nobody would rate Scirea, Cabrini, Rossi, and Gentile amongst the all-time greats. i guess my point didnt hit its designation (which was your brain ;))

[Spartak]

1. You can't include Scirea in that statement. Had there never
been a Baresi or Beckenbauer, Scirea is the greatest sweeper in
the history of the game, and in purely aesthetic terms the most
elegant defender.
I'm not denying that he wasn't a great player. But Italy winning the '82 WC has elevated even further(by mostly Italians) in terms of greatness.

2. I would disagree. Italy's 1970 squad was IMO the greatest of
their post-WWII editions and were just unlucky to face the best
WC team of all time in the final after a grueling match in the semis.
And it might have been a different game had Valcareggi had the
balls to play Rivera and Mazzola together.

I loved the 1990 Azzurri midfield and defense, but that team
lacked for a killer striker (Schillaci was a flash in the pan). I'll
take Rivera and Mazzola in midfield and Riva up front any day.
I did say it's arguable. I've compared both these teams many times on these boards and they have many similarities. The main one is what possibly cost them both the WC. And that's not finding a starting spot for their best player(Rivera, Baggio) in the biggest game of the tournament. But I'd have to give the edge to Italy 1990 in terms of how they played in the whole tournament. They only gave up one goal in the whole tournament and it was the the one that ultimately knocked them out. They were steamrolling through that tournament until Caniggia's cruel 70th minute goal ended their hopes. For all their offensive talent you must remember that the 1970 squad only scored 1 goal in their first three group matches. And that was in the last group match against Sweden.