Munich Revenge -- Were Israel's Actions Justified?

[Anthony]

I go both ways. On the one hand, you hate to see states acting like this, especially given the fact that the killings were in democratic states. On the other hand, Germany released three of the kidnappers and it was obvcious they would not be tried in the West. On yet another hand, it is argued that the actual kidnappers and masterminds were in Arab or Soviet bloc states and untouchable, so most of those killed were lower level PLO operatives.

So, there are the three hands I have. I guess I would have prefered they be captured and tried, but maybe the real perpetrators were untouchable, so trials would not have solved anything. So maybe the "vegence" was not so much vengence but simply part of a war.

In the end, I cannot decide.

[Sine Pari]

Yes they were

And if folks are going to base their arguments on the movie Munich, do you always base your opinions on fairy tales ?

[Anthony]

Yes they were

And if folks are going to base their arguments on the movie Munich, do you always base your opinions on fairy tales ?

Not having seen Munich (but having seen the earlier dramatization of the book) I cannot not say.

I find "Munich" to be a poor source because it is based on a book of someone who claimed to be on the Mossad hit team, but who has been fairly discredited as even having been involved in intelligence (not Mossad, not Israeli military intelligence, nothing).

From what I have read from other sources, they were only able to get one or two people directly connected with the kidnapping, the rest were PLO operatives to be sure (except in one tragic case of mistaken identity) but not directly connected.

[yasik19]

Yes, these actions were justified. First of all, by capturing those terrorists and prosecuting them, there was a good risk that more Jewish people would be taken hostages for the release of those captured terrorists. Now, in the ideal world, obviously that's not an excuse, otherwise, many could argue why have trials at all. But in this case, justice was served w/out the trial.

Second, if there was a trial, proof needed to be shown and that could expose many Mossad agents and the way they operate. Obviuosly, that's a bad thing.

Finally, those big shots that sponsored terrorism have friends in high places and could easily been acquitted of their charges. The Mossad didn't want to take that chance.

I know i'm more extreme in my views than many and i do belielve in eye for an eye mentality. I also believe revenge works against terrorists and the only reasoning with terrorists is by the way of force.

[odessit19]

If these athletes were Americans, would you want these terrorists to be punished or captured and tried in an international court?
IMO, if you let your citizens, especially civilians, athletes participating in Olympics, which are meant to unite us all, get slaughtered like dogs and not take action against their murderers, what message does that sent to the rest of the country's citizens? My country is supposed to protect me against all my foreign and domestic enemies and when dealing with people who want to only kill you the best thing is to kill them first.
As Golda Meir said, not based on the movie, but on her autobiography: "Every civilization sometimes must go against its own principals when its survival is endangered."

[spejic]

As Golda Meir said, not based on the movie, but on her autobiography: "Every civilization sometimes must go against its own principals when its survival is endangered."Is a country's survival endangered by losing some of its Olympic atheletes?

Think about who in the world really has the power to endanger the survival of a nation. I will always be more concerned over the behavior of the President and Congress over the behavior of outside murderers.

[MikeLastort2]

Yes they were

And if folks are going to base their arguments on the movie Munich, do you always base your opinions on fairy tales ?

So you didn't like the movie then, I guess.

I thought you were in Iraq. Are they showing first-run movies at military bases now?

[odessit19]

Is a country's survival endangered by losing some of its Olympic atheletes?

Think about who in the world really has the power to endanger the survival of a nation. I will always be more concerned over the behavior of the President and Congress over the behavior of outside murderers.

So, if American athletes were slaughtered, you would not want their murderers to be hunted down and killed?

[Anthony]

So, if American athletes were slaughtered, you would not want their murderers to be hunted down and killed?

I doubt anyone here is saying that. My problems are (1) that the real perpetrators of the massacre were safe in the Soviet block or in an Arab country so the ones killed mostly were PLO operatives with no direct connection to the crime (2) that the revenge attacks took place in democratic countries and (3) that I would prefer the perpetrators have been tried in German or Israeli courts (though not an international court).

That all said, I also recognize that the PLO operatives were one part of the larger puzzle and that the Germans and other western nations had no desire or will to try any of these people. The Germans for example freed the three kidnappers who survived the rescue attempt.

In the end, the whole thing conflicts me. Had I been the PM of Israel, I probably would have given the same order – it does not mean we have to like it.

[Dave Brother]

Yes, these actions were justified. First of all, by capturing those terrorists and prosecuting them, there was a good risk that more Jewish people would be taken hostages for the release of those captured terrorists. Now, in the ideal world, obviously that's not an excuse, otherwise, many could argue why have trials at all. But in this case, justice was served w/out the trial.

Second, if there was a trial, proof needed to be shown and that could expose many Mossad agents and the way they operate. Obviuosly, that's a bad thing.

Finally, those big shots that sponsored terrorism have friends in high places and could easily been acquitted of their charges. The Mossad didn't want to take that chance.

I know i'm more extreme in my views than many and i do belielve in eye for an eye mentality. I also believe revenge works against terrorists and the only reasoning with terrorists is by the way of force.
What he said.

[ToonUSA]

Yes, I believe that the Israeli retaliation was justified. Most people argue that more killing doesn't solve anything, but you must realize that it will send the message that you will not go down easy.

Was anyone else bothered by the way they portrayed the Palestinians? To me they made it seem as if they were "freedom fighters." When we all know that is not the case. The counter-argument made by Avner to the statement made by one of the Palestinians he was rooming with was brilliant.

[odessit19]

Yes, I believe that the Israeli retaliation was justified. Most people argue that more killing doesn't solve anything, but you must realize that it will send the message that you will not go down easy.

Was anyone else bothered by the way they portrayed the Palestinians? To me they made it seem as if they were "freedom fighters." When we all know that is not the case. The counter-argument made by Avner to the statement made by one of the Palestinians he was rooming with was brilliant.

I think what's more disturbing is Mr. Spielberg is sort of Jewish:eek: Couldn't he at least try to be a bit biased;)

[spejic]

So, if American athletes were slaughtered, you would not want their murderers to be hunted down and killed?Sure I would. By leathal injection after a valid court trial.

[christopher d]

So, if American athletes were slaughtered, you would not want their murderers to be hunted down and killed?
Depends on what team they played. My outrage might be slightly mollified if we were talking about Red Sox players... ;)

[odessit19]

Sure I would. By leathal injection after a valid court trial.

So would I, but if those responsible would be tried in Israel, (if they would and not in pathetic international court) where there is no capital punishment, they would be alive. Eichman was the first and the last person to be executed in Israel. Furthermore, German government released 3 of those responsible, where is the guarantee other governments would not do so as well? Like a famous saying goes, "if you want something to be done right, do it yourself."

[Caesar]

I know i'm more extreme in my views than many and i do belielve in eye for an eye mentality.
Because its worked so well in the past. :rolleyes:

[odessit19]

Because its worked so well in the past. :rolleyes:

And forgiveness has?

[ToonUSA]

I think what's more disturbing is Mr. Spielberg is sort of Jewish:eek: Couldn't he at least try to be a bit biased;)
Yea, that is what caught me off guard as well. It was a nice little breath of fresh air to see it told from the other side. It is still as ridiculous either way you hear it, and the Jewish people sitting in front of me were not happy at all.

[spejic]

And forgiveness has?Who is advocating that? Quit making strawmen.

[odessit19]

Who is advocating that? Quit making strawmen.

Look, it's simple, in a perfect, utopian world, these terrorists would be caught, tried and punished. However, how many times has the guilty been set free and those who wanted retribution are left in discuss? All I know is that if Mossad would not hunt them down, there was a very good chance they would go unpunished and THAT would not be right or just.