Post Your All-CONCACAF Team Here

[hobbes]

Starting XI:

----------------------FRIEDEL----------------
POPE---------MARQUEZ-------MARTINEZ
ARELLANO----TORRADO------MORALES
------------------------REYNA----------
----------------------DONOVAN-------
-------------McBRIDE------BLANCO

I'd fancy my chances against a lot of teams with that roster.

Various Styles> beat us out of Estadio Guillermo Caneda and then you can tell me Gold Cup 2000 was a fluke. It's been almost 10 years since you've done that. Even in a pro-Mexican atmosphere in San Diego you couldn't beat us and you sure can't win in Canada.

cheers,
hobbes

[Captain Canuck]

Originally posted by hobbes
Starting XI:

----------------------FRIEDEL----------------
POPE---------MARQUEZ-------MARTINEZ
ARELLANO----TORRADO------MORALES
------------------------REYNA----------
----------------------DONOVAN-------
-------------McBRIDE------BLANCO



Various Styles> beat us out of Estadio Guillermo Caneda and then you can tell me Gold Cup 2000 was a fluke. It's been almost 10 years since you've done that. Even in a pro-Mexican atmosphere in San Diego you couldn't beat us and you sure can't win in Canada.

cheers,
hobbes

Arellano over Stalteri on the right side of midfield (where Paul starts every week for a 2nd place Bundesliga side)? Sacrilege! :)

[Elninho]

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
Arellano over Stalteri on the right side of midfield (where Paul starts every week for a 2nd place Bundesliga side)? Sacrilege! :)

Since when did starting for a good team necessarily make one good? Haven't the Nevilles been getting regular PT at Manchester United for ages?

[Eliezar]

Hey some of you MFL fans. Does Blanco ever play in the hole? He seemed to at the World Cup although I would guess he was officially a striker.

What about this line up


Mathis Donovan

Blanco

Morales O'Brien Torrado Arellano


Pope Marquez Sanneh

Friedel


After seeing all the lineups so far I think this is the one I'd go with.


And I'd go with these subs:

Wanchope, Ruiz, Reyna, Damarcus Beasley, G Martinez, Keller, and 1 more defender but I can't really say I know of one that I'd fancy at this point.

[Captain Canuck]

Originally posted by Elninho
Since when did starting for a good team necessarily make one good? Haven't the Nevilles been getting regular PT at Manchester United for ages?

They are the exceptions that prove the rule. If a player plays 90 minutes every week for a good team it follows logically that he is one of the reasons why the team is good. This is the case with Stalteri, known in Bremen circles as "the all-rounder" because he is by far their most versatile player.

And besides, what did you want me to argue, that the fact that he plays 90 every week for Werder Bremen is proof that he sucks?

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
Well despite what the FIFA rankings indicate I wouldn't rank Canada as low as 7th in the region - however I would agree that realistically I would not take the entire Canadian defensive line for a Concacaf all-star squad.

Who is f#*^ing talking about FIFA rankings. Canada did not qualify for the Hex, therefore they are not in the top six in CONCACAF. In fact, 7th position is kind since Canada was eliminated by the worst team in the Hex, T&T, while Guatemala took the best team in the Hex to a playoff.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
In a four-four-two system I'd put De Vos as the starting central defender, with perhaps Menezes on the 2nd team as the sweeper (behind Mexico's Marquez).

DeVos over Pope? I don't think so, but OK. But DeVos over Gilberto Martinez? You do know that Martinez starts in Serie A, not in the English 2nd Division?

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
I'm not in a position to do a full line-up justice - unfortunately Canada doesn't play Concacaf teams all that often, playing most of its friendlies in Europe or Africa nowadays, & we seem to get our fair share of non-Concacaf teams as opposition in the Gold Cup (4 non-Concacaf matches in the past two Gold Cup alone). What this means is that Canadians are at a disadvantage at judging Concacaf nation players who either didn't make the World Cup or don't have high-profile players playing in leagues that can be easily followed in Canada (ie. EPL, Serie A, etc.). There could be some hidden gems I don't know about But it also means that followers of other Concacaf nations might not be the best experts on Canada. We are in many ways the odd-ball when it comes to Concacaf - not part of any Central America or Carribbean rivalry, & not the chief rival in the eyes of the Mexicans or Americans either.

Well I don't get the English 2nd Division, Scandanavian Leagues or the SPL, so it is hard to see Canadians play their club ball. Canada has four players in the big 4 ltop level eagues of Germany, Italy, Spain and England. The US has 10 and Jamaica 6. T&T has 2 as does CR. Mex only has one, but that is because it's league pays so well (and yes Arellano is a lot better than the mediocre Paul Staltieri).

[Captain Canuck]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer
Who is f#*^ing talking about FIFA rankings. Canada did not qualify for the Hex, therefore they are not in the top six in CONCACAF. In fact, 7th position is kind since Canada was eliminated by the worst team in the Hex, T&T, while Guatemala took the best team in the Hex to a playoff.


DeVos over Pope? I don't think so, but OK. But DeVos over Gilberto Martinez? You do know that Martinez starts in Serie A, not in the English 2nd Division?

Well I don't get the English 2nd Division, Scandanavian Leagues or the SPL, so it is hard to see Canadians play their club ball. Canada has four players in the big 4 ltop level eagues of Germany, Italy, Spain and England. The US has 10 and Jamaica 6. T&T has 2 as does CR. Mex only has one, but that is because it's league pays so well (and yes Arellano is a lot better than the mediocre Paul Staltieri).

Language! No need to get your feathers all ruffled. It was reasonable to assume you may have been referring to the FIFA rankings because in the rankings Canada is currently 7th in the FIFA rankings, and that's the only current criteria of which to base a 7th place ranking. Judging Canada in 2003 on the basis of 2000 criteria (which is when they failed to make the Hex, the summer of 2000) doesn't make much sense to me, nor does it reflect the current quality of the team.

As for De Vos, he is leading his team (as captain) into the English First Division, where the team belongs. De Vos' style & talents is suited to the English game, not Serie A, Serie B or Serie C for that matter, so there is no hope he would ever catch on in Italy regardless of how talented or good at his position he is. As a tall imposing Central defender who is physical in the air & can also score off set-pieces I don't think there is anyone in Concacaf better. Other players are stronger in other facets - I chose De Vos because in the team I'm envisioning I would want his particular strengths on it, to be complimented by someone like Marquez as a sweeper.

As for Arellano, he must have undergone an incredible transformation as a player in the past couple of months to be considered "much better than Stalteri".

[El CHarro_NEgro....]

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
Language! No need to get your feathers all ruffled. It was reasonable to assume you may have been referring to the FIFA rankings because in the rankings Canada is currently 7th in the FIFA rankings, and that's the only current criteria of which to base a 7th place ranking. Judging Canada in 2003 on the basis of 2000 criteria (which is when they failed to make the Hex, the summer of 2000) doesn't make much sense to me, nor does it reflect the current quality of the team.

As for De Vos, he is leading his team (as captain) into the English First Division, where the team belongs. De Vos' style & talents is suited to the English game, not Serie A, Serie B or Serie C for that matter, so there is no hope he would ever catch on in Italy regardless of how talented or good at his position he is. As a tall imposing Central defender who is physical in the air & can also score off set-pieces I don't think there is anyone in Concacaf better. Other players are stronger in other facets - I chose De Vos because in the team I'm envisioning I would want his particular strengths on it, to be complimented by someone like Marquez as a sweeper.

As for Arellano, he must have undergone an incredible transformation as a player in the past couple of months to be considered "much better than Stalteri".

You must face the facts. The facts are that Canada didn't qualified for 2002 WC and 1998 WC. That USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, T&T, Jamaica and Honduras have performed better than Canada on last WCC. And theres no reason to think that Canada is favorite to qualify to 2006 WC.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
Language! No need to get your feathers all ruffled. It was reasonable to assume you may have been referring to the FIFA rankings because in the rankings Canada is currently 7th in the FIFA rankings, and that's the only current criteria of which to base a 7th place ranking. Judging Canada in 2003 on the basis of 2000 criteria (which is when they failed to make the Hex, the summer of 2000) doesn't make much sense to me, nor does it reflect the current quality of the team.

To accuse any thinking person of using the FIFA rankings is a deadly insult.

While, the Hex as a standard of CONCACAF play is not perfect, but since that was the last time we saw full-strength CONCACAF sides, qualifying and the World Cup are still the best, if imperfect indicators of the strength of the teams in CONCACAF. Call me crazy but I consider results on the field more important than biased theorizing.

As for reflecting the current strength of the squad, why is Canada better than 7th. On the strength of their 3-0 drubbing by a horrid Scotland team?

When I look at Canada, I see a team with some talent but huge logistical problems and problamatic coaching. While I think anything can happen, Canada's likely range in qualification is somewhere between 3rd and 7th. Right now, either in terms of talent or other factors, I can't see moving Canada up above Jamaica, T&T, Honduras, Costa Rica, the US and Mexico. Canada appears to have more talent than Guatemala, but I think Guatemala has huge logistical advantages over Canada. While Radzinski is still a better player than Ruiz, that trend is going in favor of Ruiz and I think for this reason and the fact that Radzinski will miss matches and doesn't travel well, Ruiz will be a lot more valuable in qualifying.

Wait until you accomplish something on the field before you try to move up in the rankings!

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
As for De Vos, he is leading his team (as captain) into the English First Division, where the team belongs. De Vos' style & talents is suited to the English game, not Serie A, Serie B or Serie C for that matter, so there is no hope he would ever catch on in Italy regardless of how talented or good at his position he is. As a tall imposing Central defender who is physical in the air & can also score off set-pieces I don't think there is anyone in Concacaf better. Other players are stronger in other facets - I chose De Vos because in the team I'm envisioning I would want his particular strengths on it, to be complimented by someone like Marquez as a sweeper.

No, you chose DeVos because you appear to be a homer. Martinez has been better on the international level -- or did you miss CONCACAF qualifying and the World Cup? - and better on the club level -- starter in Serie A versus star in the 3rd level of English football.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
As for Arellano, he must have undergone an incredible transformation as a player in the past couple of months to be considered "much better than Stalteri".

No he was much better 4 years ago. I suggest you watch the World Cup again and/or some Mexican football. It won't be hard to spot Arellano. On the other hand, I have seen games for both Canada and Werder with Staltieri playing and I can never find him on the field. NOT an endorsement for an attacking player.

[TopDogg]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer
To accuse any thinking person of using the FIFA rankings is a deadly insult.
Spot on.

While, the Hex as a standard of CONCACAF play is not perfect, but since that was the last time we saw full-strength CONCACAF sides, qualifying and the World Cup are still the best, if imperfect indicators of the strength of the teams in CONCACAF. Call me crazy but I consider results on the field more important than biased theorizing.
How many CONCACAF teams did we see at the WC? It doesn't make sense to judge teams not in the WC based on the play of other teams in the WC.

As for reflecting the current strength of the squad, why is Canada better than 7th. On the strength of their 3-0 drubbing by a horrid Scotland team?
It was actually 3-1 (:D), and I thin it was precisely what Canada had coming to them. A team that hadn't played together in 6 months and was introducing some new faces should not expect to waltz into enemy territory and win, especially after training together for only two days.

Of course, you'll just dismiss this as an excuse, so I'll just move on.

When I look at Canada, I see a team with some talent but huge logistical problems and problamatic coaching.
Logistical problems, yes. Problematic coaching? The jury is still out on that one.

While I think anything can happen, Canada's likely range in qualification is somewhere between 3rd and 7th.
I agree.

Right now, either in terms of talent or other factors, I can't see moving Canada up above Jamaica, T&T, Honduras, Costa Rica, the US and Mexico. Canada appears to have more talent than Guatemala, but I think Guatemala has huge logistical advantages over Canada. While Radzinski is still a better player than Ruiz, that trend is going in favor of Ruiz and I think for this reason and the fact that Radzinski will miss matches and doesn't travel well, Ruiz will be a lot more valuable in qualifying.
I don't think Radz will miss too many matches, seeing as 2006 is his last chance at playing in a WC. I really don't see how everyone rates Jamaica and T&T so highly. Yes, T&T handed us our asses in the last qualifying (almost 3 years ago now), but i'll put a large sum of money down that the same thing will not happen again. T&T is a team in decline, while Canada is on the upswing (hell, there was only one direction we can go). As for Ja-fake-a, they'd be no where without their English players.

Wait until you accomplish something on the field before you try to move up in the rankings!
Yes, that is the way it usually works. Unless your team is T&T.

No, you chose DeVos because you appear to be a homer. Martinez has been better on the international level -- or did you miss CONCACAF qualifying and the World Cup? - and better on the club level -- starter in Serie A versus star in the 3rd level of English football.
Apparently you read nothing that CC had to say about strengths and weaknesses.

No he was much better 4 years ago. I suggest you watch the World Cup again and/or some Mexican football. It won't be hard to spot Arellano. On the other hand, I have seen games for both Canada and Werder with Staltieri playing and I can never find him on the field. NOT an endorsement for an attacking player.
I suggest you watch some German football or pay attention to their press reports because Stalteri is known as one of the most versatile players in the Bundesliga and is consistently rated highly by kicker and other media outlets.

Arellano was better 4 years ago, so we shold pick him now?

[Captain Canuck]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer
To accuse any thinking person of using the FIFA rankings is a deadly insult.

While, the Hex as a standard of CONCACAF play is not perfect, but since that was the last time we saw full-strength CONCACAF sides, qualifying and the World Cup are still the best, if imperfect indicators of the strength of the teams in CONCACAF. Call me crazy but I consider results on the field more important than biased theorizing.

As for reflecting the current strength of the squad, why is Canada better than 7th. On the strength of their 3-0 drubbing by a horrid Scotland team?

Wait until you accomplish something on the field before you try to move up in the rankings!


No, you chose DeVos because you appear to be a homer. Martinez has been better on the international level -- or did you miss CONCACAF qualifying and the World Cup? - and better on the club level -- starter in Serie A versus star in the 3rd level of English football.

No he was much better 4 years ago. I suggest you watch the World Cup again and/or some Mexican football. It won't be hard to spot Arellano. On the other hand, I have seen games for both Canada and Werder with Staltieri playing and I can never find him on the field. NOT an endorsement for an attacking player.


Actually you didn't get the scoreline of that friendly correct, but don't worry about that unduly, as you have bigger problems to be concerned about. Such as suggesting that you are familiar enough with Stalteri to comment upon him & then going on to make the glaring mistake of referring to him as an "attacking player" for Werder Bremen - if you were really familiar with Stalteri's club role it would be glaringly obvious that he is a defensive player. Either he man-marks in the midfield or he is used in the back three. He has been ranked by kicker magazine as one of the better defensive players in the Bundesliga this year, are you now going to accuse a German soccer magazine of being Canadian "homers"?

He does play more of an attacking role for Canada, but if you really have watched Canada play with Stalteri in the team you can't be a very attentive viewer if you can't find him on the field - to suggest that he isn't involved in the play for Canada is nothing short of a joke. Hopefully it was intended to be.

What this suggests (& that of the other poster who said there is no reason to believe Canada will be one of the favourites to qualify for 2006) is exactly what I stated at the beginning - most non-Canadians on this forum truly don't know the Canadian squad & its players. Likewise, as I stated, I am don't think I am expert on many of the other Concacaf players who we in Canada normally wouldn't get to see, and that's why I haven't commented on them. I have chose De Vos not out of being a homer, as you call it, but because I am more familiar with him & prefer him in that role to anybody else that I am also familiar with. I stated this caveat in my first post on this thread, but my comments seem to have fallen on blind eyes. I have not made any disparaging comments about any non-Canadians on this thread, but have received plenty about Canadians in return. My comment about Arellano was a joke to a fellow Canadian about committing "sacrilege" for choosing a Mexican over a Canadian in a position where the Canadian plays his club football and who (in my opinion) is just as good as that Mexican player - I would have thought the fact that it was a joke was obvious, highlighted by the fact I used smilie, if the term "Sacrilege" wasn't enough of a dead giveaway. Non-Canadians have chosen Arellano in their list & I said nothing because the same joke wouldn't apply to them & the choice is fair enough. In return for the obvious joke made to a fellow Canuck I get a whole bunch of comments from non-Canadians who seem to take offense to the suggestion that Stalteri might be worthy of consideration.

Sheesh.

[Martin Fischer]

Starting with my position on the Martinez/DeVos debate, I read what CC said. I agree that DeVos has some fine qualities, and some weaknesses. None of this tells me how he is better than Gilberto Martinez. Better at the club level and international level seems a pretty good argument, at least compared to the poetic waxings of a Canadian homer.

Originally posted by TopDogg

I don't think Radz will miss too many matches, seeing as 2006 is his last chance at playing in a WC.

I bet he will, as when the clubs start complaining only the truly committed to international play keep playing. I think Radz will fold in that situation. Plus, he is not as good on this side of the world, probably because he has spent so little time over here.

Originally posted by TopDogg

I really don't see how everyone rates Jamaica and T&T so highly. Yes, T&T handed us our asses in the last qualifying (almost 3 years ago now), but i'll put a large sum of money down that the same thing will not happen again. T&T is a team in decline, while Canada is on the upswing (hell, there was only one direction we can go).

Well they finished ahead of Canada the last times full squads were available and they still have two forwards who have demonstrated the ability to score goals in the EPL, and significant numbers of others kicking around the British leagues. The argument that they are in decline is possible, but I consider that Latapay and York were more of a hindrance than a help last time, at least in the Hex.

Originally posted by TopDogg

As for Ja-fake-a, they'd be no where without their English players.

Well, Jamacian or English, you still have to score more goals than them.

Originally posted by TopDogg

I suggest you watch some German football or pay attention to their press reports because Stalteri is known as one of the most versatile players in the Bundesliga and is consistently rated highly by kicker and other media outlets.

I watch one or two Bundesliga games a week usually. Now Bremen is not one every week, but I have seen Staltieri a number of times over the past three years. Kicker ratings suck, which is obvious is you actually watch the games.

Originally posted by TopDogg

Arellano was better 4 years ago, so we shold pick him now?

He was better four years ago, better 2 years ago and is better now, and undoubtedly better tomorrow. Read my comments together and you will see that I did not intend to say that Arellano was only better four years go.

[Eliezar]

Hey this thread is about *PLAYERS* not teams.

If Maradona played for St. Vincent he'd still be all concacaf...er well not at his age, but you get my meaning.

Having said that I'd like to point out that a player playing in D2 in England (which is the 3rd division) wouldn't get a call up from the US or Mexico most likely. And compare a 3rd division player to a Serie A player is very hard even if they were comparable. I'd still rate that Serie A player as realistically somewhere between the 3rd and 4th best defender in the region anyway.

Let's get back to topic

How about Blanco playing between the mids and strikers 8)

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
Actually you didn't get the scoreline of that friendly correct, but don't worry about that unduly, as you have bigger problems to be concerned about. Such as suggesting that you are familiar enough with Stalteri to comment upon him & then going on to make the glaring mistake of referring to him as an "attacking player" for Werder Bremen - if you were really familiar with Stalteri's club role it would be glaringly obvious that he is a defensive player. Either he man-marks in the midfield or he is used in the back three. He has been ranked by kicker magazine as one of the better defensive players in the Bundesliga this year, are you now going to accuse a German soccer magazine of being Canadian "homers"?

Well maybe I was expecting him to play a more attacking role based on his Canadian role. You know they don't actually give midfielders a mark to indicate if they are attacking or defensive. If he plays in the midfield, he ought to attack sometime.

As for his kicker rating, it is far from the holy grail as I discussed above. Anyway, Staltieri is only a good player according to Kicker with a 3.35 average this year, nothing remarkable.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
He does play more of an attacking role for Canada, but if you really have watched Canada play with Stalteri in the team you can't be a very attentive viewer if you can't find him on the field - to suggest that he isn't involved in the play for Canada is nothing short of a joke. Hopefully it was intended to be.

It's a rhetorical device to exagerate to make a point. Sorry if it confused you.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
What this suggests (& that of the other poster who said there is no reason to believe Canada will be one of the favourites to qualify for 2006) is exactly what I stated at the beginning - most non-Canadians on this forum truly don't know the Canadian squad & its players. Likewise, as I stated, I am don't think I am expert on many of the other Concacaf players who we in Canada normally wouldn't get to see, and that's why I haven't commented on them.

Well this is true, but I was assuming you were trying to pull together your limited knowledge and come to a fair conclusion of who is better, even if imperfect, instead of just picking those you have seen the most.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
I have chose De Vos not out of being a homer, as you call it, but because I am more familiar with him & prefer him in that role to anybody else that I am also familiar with. I stated this caveat in my first post on this thread, but my comments seem to have fallen on blind eyes.

You didn't watch the world cup? I can understand if you don't watch Serie A, but you didn't watch Costa Rica play in the World Cup. I guess I am assuming that you had a lower level of homer-absorbtion.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
I have not made any disparaging comments about any non-Canadians on this thread, but have received plenty about Canadians in return.

I am not disparging Canadians. I put Rad on my top 11 and DeVos, McKenna, Brennan and Staltieri on my honorable mention side.


Originally posted by Captain Canuck
My comment about Arellano was a joke to a fellow Canadian about committing "sacrilege" for choosing a Mexican over a Canadian in a position where the Canadian plays his club football and who (in my opinion) is just as good as that Mexican player - I would have thought the fact that it was a joke was obvious, highlighted by the fact I used smilie, if the term "Sacrilege" wasn't enough of a dead giveaway. Non-Canadians have chosen Arellano in their list & I said nothing because the same joke wouldn't apply to them & the choice is fair enough. In return for the obvious joke made to a fellow Canuck I get a whole bunch of comments from non-Canadians who seem to take offense to the suggestion that Stalteri might be worthy of consideration.

Missed the joke part. I thought you seriously believe that Staltieri is better and was simply expressing my contrary opinion. Nothing more was intended. Sorry is the discussion of the value of players offended you.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
Sheesh.

True enough. Discussion would be better.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by Eliezar
Hey this thread is about *PLAYERS* not teams.

...

Let's get back to topic

..

Missed your appointment as God, or even a mod.

[Captain Canuck]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer
It's a rhetorical device to exagerate to make a point. Sorry if it confused you.

Well this is true, but I was assuming you were trying to pull together your limited knowledge and come to a fair conclusion of who is better, even if imperfect, instead of just picking those you have seen the most.

You didn't watch the world cup? I can understand if you don't watch Serie A, but you didn't watch Costa Rica play in the World Cup. I guess I am assuming that you had a lower level of homer-absorbtion.

I am not disparging Canadians. I put Rad on my top 11 and DeVos, McKenna, Brennan and Staltieri on my honorable mention side.


Missed the joke part. I thought you seriously believe that Staltieri is better and was simply expressing my contrary opinion. Nothing more was intended. Sorry is the discussion of the value of players offended you.


Stalteri is involved with counter-attacks, so he is involved, but he is used primarily defensively. I don't think Kicker ratings are gospel either, my point in referring to them is that its more than just "homer" Canadians who think highly of him - allegedly unbiased sources also think that.

Sarcasm isn't your strong point by the way. Yes, I am aware of what you were trying to do with your exaggeration, I just didn't care - I wanted to underline that the comment was totally off-base.

I did see the World Cup & I do watch Serie A - it doesn't affect what I said about Martinez. I'm not sure that the World Cup was the best advertisment for Martinez, to tell you the truth. I've also seen him play live. It still doesn't mean that I'm as familiar with him as I am with De Vos, or that from what I have seen of him it would make me want to pick him ahead of De Vos. I've already mentioned the reasons why.

In reference to my "limited" knowledge, my original point is that everyone's knowledge is limited - nothing special in my case, outside of being the first to come out & truthfully admit it. Not everyone has - in fact most come across as know-it-alls, when they aren't. Which of course makes all of these "homer" comments very ironic & somewhat amusing.

Calling Stalteri "mediocre" by the way is disparaging, but I'm quibbling. And I'm not "offended" by what anybody wrote, just find the comments people have stated in response to my own be both bizarre, perplexing & as stated, somewhat amusing.

[Pirrip]

Originally posted by Eliezar
Hey this thread is about *PLAYERS* not teams.


Having said that I'd like to point out that a player playing in D2 in England (which is the 3rd division) wouldn't get a call up from the US or Mexico most likely.



Well I can't speak for Mexico, but the US dresses several MLS players and that League is, in both my opinion (have seen plenty of both) and in the opinion of european scouts (OK, I have only seen 3 quoted) equivalent to the English Second. I know, this is going to set off the inevitable "is not" arguments, of perhaps the specious "maybe so, but the players we call are better than the MLS and would be with Bayern if only" arguments. Neither of these hold water with me. Perhaps the real problem here is that we have essentially a subjective excercise with individuals unwilling to accept subjective arguments. Thus we have the DeVos versus Martinez debate and the Stalteri versus Arellano debate, both being argued using contradictary arguments. Well it seems goofy to me but hey! thats just my opinion. Dismissing DeVos because Martinez plays at a higher club level, then arguing Arellano over Stalteri seems to indicate to me an unwillingness to give merit to opposing points of view. The latter starts every day, in a variety of positions for one of the top temas in one of the top leagues in the world. But we certainly can't use that as a guage of anything now can we?In my opinion, both Stalteri and Radzinski start on any all CONCACAF team. I also like Brennan at left back, but am not wedded to that position. Really, it seems as if this thread is an All CONCACAF circa 2001 based on national team performance in WC Qualifying argument and leaves no room for the changing fortunes, ability and level of play of individuals, or indeed, any consideration of the level of play at any time. Its a pity. Because this is potentially a good thread if a few minds can open up a bit.

[LMvCP]

ANybody who thinks Arellano should not be on there is seriously smoking something.

Too many times the Mexican player gets criticized for not leaving and playing else where? Why should he get criticized because we have a league that is financially stable? The Mexican league not only is the richest league in the western hemisphere but also richer than most of the European leagues (except EPL, Serie, Bundis, & Liga). But they do pay million dollar salaries.. thats right million USD salaries. The Canadian, the Central America, the Caribbean player, and sometimes the American player has to leave..not because they want to..but because they have to. Arellano has been offered many times to go to Europe. After 98 WC, he had his chance. After the 99 Copa America and Copa Confederaciones he had his chance. Basically after every game they have played against a Euro team, european clubs have tried to deal with Arellano's club about his card. Arellano was also head hunted after last years WC. Arellano made it very clear...if he does not like the team nor the offer... he wont go. He is very happy withhis salary (makes millions on his salary alone and then his endorsments) and loves the city of Monterrey. Monterrey is not even one of the best clubs in Mexico...but that is his favorite club and all his family is there. He did say once that he didnt need to go to Europe to prove himself. He has played against alot of the top national teams in the world and does run circles around people. Very few players in the world can do what he does. And what impresses me most about this guy... this guy gives you 90 solid minutes every time.

This question is directed at the Canadians... if the tables were turned and Canada did have an established league and one of the best leagues int he world... would you criticize your players for not wanting to leave?


just for the record.. I would like to see more Mexicans playing in Europe because of its prestige..but my no means is it an obsession. Too many times I have heard players from South America say that if thier native league was financially stable, they wouldn't be obsessed with playing abroad.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
...

Sarcasm isn't your strong point by the way.

Actually, personal attacks are not appropriate. Focus on what I said, not my characteristics.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
...Yes, I am aware of what you were trying to do with your exaggeration, I just didn't care - I wanted to underline that the comment was totally off-base.

Fine, then don't feign ignorance and waste our time.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
...I did see the World Cup & I do watch Serie A - it doesn't affect what I said about Martinez. I'm not sure that the World Cup was the best advertisment for Martinez, to tell you the truth. I've also seen him play live. It still doesn't mean that I'm as familiar with him as I am with De Vos, or that from what I have seen of him it would make me want to pick him ahead of De Vos. I've already mentioned the reasons why.

OK, fine it's subjective. I just think you ought to compare the two players if you are going to make a comparison. For me, Martinez is faster and has better ball skills, in addition to superior tactical ability from playing in Italy, which are more important than DeVos' strength. I also don't think that it is helpful to say that DeVos is better suited to the English game in arguing he should be on the all CONCACAF team.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
...In reference to my "limited" knowledge, my original point is that everyone's knowledge is limited - nothing special in my case, outside of being the first to come out & truthfully admit it. Not everyone has - in fact most come across as know-it-alls, when they aren't. Which of course makes all of these "homer" comments very ironic & somewhat amusing.

You lost me again. What does being a know-it-all have to do with being a homer? It is true that we may not be as smart as we think, but it makes for a more interesting discussion than just saying I don't know.

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
...Calling Stalteri "mediocre" by the way is disparaging, but I'm quibbling. And I'm not "offended" by what anybody wrote, just find the comments people have stated in response to my own be both bizarre, perplexing & as stated, somewhat amusing.

Whatever. "Mediocre" is an opinion, nothing more. And what I mean is that he is mediocre for a Big Four first division player. Obviously, compared to me and BigSoccer posters, Staltieri is among the elite.

[afgrijselijkheid]

jeez, why dont you two get a room?!?


and for rdl, 'Very few players in the world can do what (arellano) does' ?!?!?!?!?!?!?

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight - i got news for ya: any big european, argentinian or brazilian team has 3 guys who can do what arellano does - hell, arsenal has about 6 or 7 - get real man, hes a heck of a player, but dozens of the world's outside midfielders are as good or better (including