Di Canio: "I'm A Fascist, Not A Racist"

[Eowin]

Lazio striker Di Canio has denied that his straight-arm salute, that resulted in him being banned and fined, is in anyway racist, or designed to incite violence.

However, he explained to ANSA: "I am a fascist, not a racist.
"I give the straight arm salute because it is a salute from a ’camerata’ to ’camerati’ (words for members of Benito Mussolini's fascist movement).

"The salute is aimed at my people. With the straight arm I don’t want to incite violence and certainly not racial hatred."
................................

:confused:

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I'm with Di Canio on this one. You cannot ban or punish a player for something like that, it's simply ludicrous. What would be next? A yellow card for every player that crosses themself?

(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racism)
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=fascism)

[Xeneize12]

I'm with Di Canio on this one. You cannot ban or punish a player for something like that, it's simply ludicrous. What would be next? A yellow card for every player that crosses themself?


It's purely semantics. While I'm no expert on the black shirts, I do know they were a repressive regime. The following of the fascists in Italy - like the P2 group - continued to use terror to promote their politics or curtail support for the opposition. In fact, why don't we actually take a look at the definition you offered.

Fascist: "A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

I'm sure it sounds like a friendly bunch of people any person would love to show their allegiance with. :rolleyes: Give me a break!

[Walter3000]

Racism is a fundamental part of facism.

[Austrian MetroFan]

I think, it has more to do with sentimelity. If you would do the fascist greating in f.e.: Turkey, India or China, you wouldn't be in great troubles, but if you do the greating in Austria, Italy, Germany or any (espacially) european Country, than the public and media will react in very critical way, because the people in this Countries had suffered under the Nazis. That made the people more senitmental and more anti-nationalsocialsm.

Racism is a part of Facism: Hitler took the Evolution theory of Charles Darwin and abused it for his interests. He spoke of ,,Natürliche Auslese'' (=natural development) and of the ,,Arische Herrenrasse'' (=white super race). For Hitler, the History of the Humans was a ,,Rassenkampf'' (=Race fight) and after his opinion, the stronger races should defeat and destroy the weaker races. For him, the white-germanic (=Germans, Swedish, Danish, British, Dutch, Austrian, US-American...) was the strongest race and should destroy the weak races like American Blacks, Black Africans, Slawes (espacially Russians), Homosexualls and espacially Jews.

[roma/totti]

Di canio v.s. Lucarelli

the facist soccer player against the communist soccer player

who wins??

[pookspur]

racism is not inherent in fascism. nazism was/is a strand of fascism, and because of the manner in which it became the prominent face of fascism in the 1930s, the virulent racism within national socialism (nazism) came to be readily identified with fascism. if you'll take another look at xeneize12's quote definition of fascist, and switch the boldface from "racism" to "typically", you'll get closer to the truth. the fact is, if one (particularly an italian) wishes to disassociate fascism from nazism, there is certainly historical and ideological ground to do so. 11best's and austrian metrofan's injection of social darwinism into the discussion is to view fascism through the prism of one (or more, and certainly it's most familiar) strain - but not of fascism, itself.

that said, fascism, and it's inherent nationalism, makes the soil for racism very fertile, indeed. it's a safe bet that a vast majority of all fascists are probably racists, as well. but it is not necessarily, as xeneize12 suggests, simply a matter of semantics. despite the fact that he's given us all a reason to suspect as much, i don't know if paolo di canio is a racist or not - nor does anyone else, if they've nothing more to go by than the ol' salute.

speaking more generally, though, i'm inclined to agree with xeneize12's comment on the implications of what he's associating himself with. i strongly suspect that this is not a charming lot.

not to sound pedantic about fascism, but i put alot of research into it's definition in a graduate school seminar on the very subject of whether or not a specific organization is fascist (the nation of islam, in that case), and i can assure you that, while not frequent, it is entirely possible for one to espouse fascist principles without being a social darwinist, a nazi, or a cretin.

...wouldn't bet against any of 'em, though.

[frenil]

Question being; Is Fascism, regardless if it bears relation to racism, something which football/soccer and subsequently FIFA wants to be associated with?

The concept of Nationalism and Racism is the same, only the subject is different (nationality - race).

[pookspur]

The concept of Nationalism and Racism is the same...

this simply isn't true.

nations are determined by cultural factors. races are determined by genetics. while genetics can be cultural factors, they are not by neccessity.

look at the balkans, for example. some there are seperated by their churches, alphabets, and historical circumstances; but are of the exact same genetic stock (even possessing the same language) - and yet are of national identities so divergent that they have hated and warred with each other for centuries. i'm not suggesting that the manifestations of their animosities are any less disturbing; but they are not racist.

[frenil]

this simply isn't true.

nations are determined by cultural factors. races are determined by genetics. while genetics can be cultural factors, they are not by neccessity.

look at the balkans, for example. some there are seperated by their churches, alphabets, and historical circumstances; but are of the exact same genetic stock (even possessing the same language) - and yet are of national identities so divergent that they have hated and warred with each other for centuries. i'm not suggesting that the manifestations of their animosities are any less disturbing; but they are not racist.

that's what I said

The concept, the proclamation of superiority, is the same wheras the subject, in the case of racism and nationalism; race or nationality, is the only thing that differs.

[pookspur]

i may have missed the point with that last post. perhaps you are suggesting that fascism is like racism, in that it presupposes superiorities in nations in the same way that racism presupposes superiorities in genetics.

if so, i would agree in all practical sense. however, in principle, this is not exactly true. i can't imagine, however, that going any deeper into fascist theory is going to appeal to anyone, so i won't.

... you're welcome.

anyway, fair post, frenil. didn't mean to sound argumentative.

edit: damn. beaten by seconds.

[Erkan]

I am a fascist, not a racist.

Oh really? Sorry then, we are really very sorry for blaming you.

[nicephoras]

Racism is a fundamental part of facism.

No, actually, its not.

[bsas]

Fascist regimes (like some communists ones, by the way) have resulted in th cold blooded killing of loads of their opponents. This salute is therefore an insult to the families of these victims. Not something that FIFA should tolerate, imo.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

If you ban that, then you must therefore ban public support of every political ideology. If the only complaint is the offense it may cause other groups, then you will need to ban all public shows of religious support and anything else that may cause offense to others. In short, everything must be banned. A fairly ridiculous situation given that Di Canio has done nothing wrong at all. This witch hunt is pathetic to say the least.

[Joelzinho]

What did he do? The Nazi salute?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

The Saluto Romano.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute)

[Morbo]

To be honest, who even cares if he was a racist?

So what if he did the Hitler greeting? He's just a football player. Everybody is getting their panties in a wrinkle, but for what? So he's a fascist. Each to their own, as the american saying goes (right?). Everybody has their own opinions on worldly matters. Some people like foreigners, some don't. That's the great thing about freedom of speech. Everybody gets to vent their opinions and frustrations. You may not like it, but guess what? You have the power to let the other party know that you don't like it. Just like the other party get's the chance to let you know that they don't like your point of view.

Anyway, I get the feeling Di Canio doesn't know ******** about politics. Or.... he's just a rich bastard who only gets to see the 'good' sides of fascism (and believe it or not... any political view has it's advantages, even fascism. I would be interested in hearing his point of view when he actually has to work for his money (playing football isn't work af far as í'm concerned)

[dredgfan]

Racism is a fundamental part of facism.

they even rhyme.

[Xeneize12]

racism is not inherent in fascism. nazism was/is a strand of fascism, and because of the manner in which it became the prominent face of fascism in the 1930s, the virulent racism within national socialism (nazism) came to be readily identified with fascism. if you'll take another look at xeneize12's quote definition of fascist, and switch the boldface from "racism" to "typically", you'll get closer to the truth. the fact is, if one (particularly an italian) wishes to disassociate fascism from nazism, there is certainly historical and ideological ground to do so. 11best's and austrian metrofan's injection of social darwinism into the discussion is to view fascism through the prism of one (or more, and certainly it's most familiar) strain - but not of fascism, itself.

that said, fascism, and it's inherent nationalism, makes the soil for racism very fertile, indeed. it's a safe bet that a vast majority of all fascists are probably racists, as well. but it is not necessarily, as xeneize12 suggests, simply a matter of semantics. despite the fact that he's given us all a reason to suspect as much, i don't know if paolo di canio is a racist or not - nor does anyone else, if they've nothing more to go by than the ol' salute.

speaking more generally, though, i'm inclined to agree with xeneize12's comment on the implications of what he's associating himself with. i strongly suspect that this is not a charming lot.

not to sound pedantic about fascism, but i put alot of research into it's definition in a graduate school seminar on the very subject of whether or not a specific organization is fascist (the nation of islam, in that case), and i can assure you that, while not frequent, it is entirely possible for one to espouse fascist principles without being a social darwinist, a nazi, or a cretin.

...wouldn't bet against any of 'em, though.

I agree with your statements about racism not being inherent in fascism. Perhaps I did approach the manner a bit emotionally on my first post and did overstate or broaden the scope of the definition. Your attempt at clarification is commendable. I believe, however, that the issue here is not whether DiCanio is or is not a racist, nor whether racism and fascism are inextricably intertwined. In fact, the issue isn’t even DiCanio’s subjective belief. What is most important - what should be the standard by which he is judged - is the objective meaning communicated by his form of expression.

It seems that there is certain sensitivity – rightly so – associated with the salute Di Canio did. The fact that you had to write a very eloquent analysis of what fascism is, it’s distinction with Nazism, and the possible implications of racism within both is evidence that people may understand his salute to mean much more than what he may subjectively believe it should communicate. So much so that one cannot perform this type of salute without it communicating a certain meaning (perhaps more pejorative than academically appropriate). This much is clear. It was clear enough for FIFA, its clear enough for me, and I think most people of common sensibility will find it clear as well.