Italy does not play catenaccio anymore

[roma/totti]

Our RBs and LBs do make plenty of runs. Zambrotta has amazing speed and ball skill, and Grosso, who will be our likely starter, plays very well downt he line and has very good crosses. Our Mid is very destructive offensively, with guys like Pirlo, Totti, and Camonaresi, and then a tough ball winner like Gattuso.

Italy is very good at counter attacking because pirlo and totti can make deadly accurate long balls, but also the midfield is very attacking and we like to utilize the side lines and quick passes, and also like to use crosses in the box for guys like Toni to head them in.


we should bring montilivio to the world cup, i seen this kid play yesterday, he plays the game like zidane, he has sooo much talent, lippi better take notice....with this kid italy will cruse threw this group

[Regency]

we should bring montilivio to the world cup, i seen this kid play yesterday, he plays the game like zidane, he has sooo much talent, lippi better take notice....with this kid italy will cruse threw this group

Maybe to SA 2010 but he isn't quite ready yet.

[dor02]

we should bring montilivio to the world cup, i seen this kid play yesterday, he plays the game like zidane, he has sooo much talent, lippi better take notice....with this kid italy will cruse threw this groupI don't care about prodigys. I prefer players who have proved themselves at a high level.

[King-James]

I dont think its possible for Italy and brazil to meet in the finals. I think they will have to meet by or before the semis.

It looks like the knockout rounds are set up so two teams from the same group cannot meet again until the finals. Since Italy's and Brazil's group play each other in the round of 16, the only two parts of the tournament that they could meet is the round of 16 (if one wins the group and other finishes second in theirs) or the final (if both finish 1st, or both finish 2nd).

In case I'm not making sense...
If you look at the knockout rounds on a playoff grid, you see there is one team from each group on both sides of the grid.

[redstriker06]

Question-

If Italy isn't playing catenaccio how do you explain a mediocre showing in their qualifying group? I'll be the first to admit that I didn't watch every game but from what I saw it wasn't overwhelming.

[roma/totti]

Question-

If Italy isn't playing catenaccio how do you explain a mediocre showing in their qualifying group? I'll be the first to admit that I didn't watch every game but from what I saw it wasn't overwhelming.


lippi was expertmenting too much with the line up, in the early stages, totti and cassano didn't play alot in qualifying...those are some reasons

[benito camelpene]

we should bring montilivio to the world cup, i seen this kid play yesterday, he plays the game like zidane,


What team does Montilivio play for?

[ForzaGiallorossi]

What team does Montilivio play for?

Fiorentina I believe...

[Shackleton]

It is interesting to examine the Italian WCQ record since the 1994 cycle:

Year W L D GF GA
2006 7 1 2 17 8
2002 6 0 2 16 3
1998 6 0 4 13 2
1994 7 1 2 22 6

Italy allowed a lot more goals in 2006 qualifying than previously, especially compared to 1998 and 2002. Italy scored fewer goals per game in 2006 than in 1994 or 2002. Interestingly, Italy's qualifying record was pretty much the same as in previous cycles, despite scoring fewer goals and allowing a lot more. The record suggests to me that Italy does not play catenaccio anymore, but they're not a better team than those that did.

[roma/totti]

It is interesting to examine the Italian WCQ record since the 1994 cycle:

Year W L D GF GA
2006 7 1 2 17 8
2002 6 0 2 16 3
1998 6 0 4 13 2
1994 7 1 2 22 6

Italy allowed a lot more goals in 2006 qualifying than previously, especially compared to 1998 and 2002. Italy scored fewer goals per game in 2006 than in 1994 or 2002. Interestingly, Italy's qualifying record was pretty much the same as in previous cycles, despite scoring fewer goals and allowing a lot more. The record suggests to me that Italy does not play catenaccio anymore, but they're not a better team than those that did.

that could because of maldini gone, plus...a expermental defence when you take out cannavaro,nesta,zambrotta....hmm interesting the same qualifying record as 1994....seems the 12 year cycle is making more and more sense

[mfw13]

But there's no denying that Italy's performance in this qualifying cycle was decidely average, especially considering the quality of the other teams in the group.

There's no way they should have allowed 8 goals to this caliber opposition (2-3 would have been more like it), and they should have scored at least 20, considering that the played ten matches.

A goal differential of +9 in a ten match group against the likes of Norway, Scotland, Belarus, Slovenia, etc. is just not very impressive.

[romagol10]

But there's no denying that Italy's performance in this qualifying cycle was decidely average, especially considering the quality of the other teams in the group.

There's no way they should have allowed 8 goals to this caliber opposition (2-3 would have been more like it), and they should have scored at least 20, considering that the played ten matches.

A goal differential of +9 in a ten match group against the likes of Norway, Scotland, Belarus, Slovenia, etc. is just not very impressive.
8 goals allowed in 10 games is not that poor of a record. The bottom line is Italy scored enough goals and defended well enough to win their group and qualify directly for the world cup. That they didn't do so with a +40 goal differential really isn't that big of a deal.

I suggest to anyone looking for more information on Italy's qualifying matches to check out the match reports at this site: http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/azzurri.html. The match reports also list the lineups so you can get an idea of just how "experimental" some of them were.

[King-James]

The World Cup is often too unpredictable to go by qualifying campaigns. Reversals in performance have not been uncommon.

[mfw13]

This is true, but the hypothesis behind this thread is that Italy have stopped playing catenaacio under Lippi and therefore that they cannot be analyzed by looking at pre-Lippi past results (for example their performance in the group stages of past World Cups).

The only competitive matches they have played under Lippi have been the WC qualifiers, therefore it is wholly appropriate to examine them.

[King-James]

Not all low scoring, defensive oriented football is catenaccio though. Its hard to judge if a team plays catenaccio by stats.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

Not all low scoring, defensive oriented football is catenaccio though. Its hard to judge if a team plays catenaccio by stats.
Exactly, at least judging a team by statistics. The score may end up 1-0 but the winning team may not have been playing that defensively. They may have been plagued with poor finishing or some unluckiness or something like that. The biggest problem with misconceptions on certain national teams is that we don't see these teams enough in the United States to make good judgements.

[firefly]

From what I can see of Italy they're an excellent team, they maintain a strong defense and take advantage of any opportunity they can get. Their weakness is when they fall behind a goal. They snap mentally and start focusing on the ref's calls instead of getting back into the game.

Yup. Italians are very passionate about their soccer. The pressure on the Italian team will be very big. They very well may crack if they get behind regardless of what style they play. This is not a friendly. It is the World Cup.

The U.S. and Ghana, on the other hand have much less pressure.

This is going to be fun.:D

[el_rengo_acosta]

HEY GUYS RENGO HERE...I AM FROM URUGUAY AND ENJOY WATCHING La Vecchia Signora ...I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY ITALIAN TEAMS BUYS SO MANY FOREIGN PLAYERS THIS IS NOT GOOD SINCE HOME GROWN TALENT ARE NOT GIVEN PLAYING TIME.
INTER MILAN HAS LIKE 12 SOUTHAMERICANS.


I THINK THE AZURRI HAVE THE BEST DEFENCE IN THE WORLD THIS HAS ALLWAYS BEEN ITALIA'S CLAIM TO FAME ITALIA HAS ALLWAYS WON WITH THEIR SOLID DEFENSE AND THAT SHOULD NOT CHANGE...REMMEMBER THAT IN ITALIA 90, ITALIA HAD A SOLID DEFENSE ALLMOST PERFECT AND THEN THEY HAD THE SICILIAN SALVATORE SCHILLACI UP FRONT WHO ALLWAYS SCORED.ITALIA SHOULD PLAY THE SAME STYLE THAT HAS ALLWAYS LED THEM TO GLORY THAT IS AN UNPENETRABLE DEFENSE.
WHY FIX IT IF IT AINT BROKE.

IN THE GROUP STAGE I THINK GHANA WILL BE DIFICULT
THE AMERICANS WILL TREMBLE WHEN THEY SEE THE MAGLIA AZZURRA
AND THE CZECH REPUBLIC ARE A GOOD TEAM BUT ITALIA SHOULD WIN IF LOGIC PREVAILS

LUCA TONI WILL BE THE KEY TO ITALIA'S SUCCES IN 2006


PS: I HOPE ITALIA AND BRAZIL MEET IN SEMIFINALS AND ITALIA WINS


CHEERS!.

[dor02]

HEY GUYS RENGO HERE...I AM FROM URUGUAY AND ENJOY WATCHING La Vecchia Signora ...I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY ITALIAN TEAMS BUYS SO MANY FOREIGN PLAYERS THIS IS NOT GOOD SINCE HOME GROWN TALENT ARE NOT GIVEN PLAYING TIME.
INTER MILAN HAS LIKE 12 SOUTHAMERICANS.Since the 1960s, the presidents of the Italian soccer giants have been known as the "stupid, rich men". They always want to outdo each other in everyway. Inter has been trying to do anything because they have only won one trophy since the UEFA Cup win in 1998.


I THINK THE AZURRI HAVE THE BEST DEFENCE IN THE WORLD THIS HAS ALLWAYS BEEN ITALIA'S CLAIM TO FAME ITALIA HAS ALLWAYS WON WITH THEIR SOLID DEFENSE AND THAT SHOULD NOT CHANGE...REMMEMBER THAT IN ITALIA 90, ITALIA HAD A SOLID DEFENSE ALLMOST PERFECT AND THEN THEY HAD THE SICILIAN SALVATORE SCHILLACI UP FRONT WHO ALLWAYS SCORED.ITALIA SHOULD PLAY THE SAME STYLE THAT HAS ALLWAYS LED THEM TO GLORY THAT IS AN UNPENETRABLE DEFENSE.
WHY FIX IT IF IT AINT BROKE.Ok, I'm a bit lost here because in the last two tornaments, defensive football has caused Italy to f*u*c*k up. Maldini doesn't play for the Azzurri any more and we have to hope that Cannavaro and Nesta don't get injured. After watching the last few tornaments, I've learned that a nation like Itay shouldn't play defensive football whatsoever. Italy has the depth and talent in midfield and attack and Lippi has the brain to make sure Italy is on the attack.

I like your example of Italia 90 but Espana 82 would have been a safer bet. The defence was better and Rossi was better than Schillaci. After the group stage, Bearzot encouraged to play attacking football. Most important of all, Italy brought home the trophy.


LUCA TONI WILL BE THE KEY TO ITALIA'S SUCCES IN 2006If he maintains his form or moves up a gear, he will.

I HOPE ITALIA AND BRAZIL MEET IN SEMIFINALS AND ITALIA WINSThe Azzurri could meet the Selecao as early as the second round. Needless to say, we hope for an Azzurri win too.