The USSF World Cup tickets email has arrived!

[Atouk]

They also called FedEx "mail," so to infer things from their use of language is sketchy, at best.

I think you and I both know the implication of the word "official." Unfortunately, what's implied is always beaten by what's expressed.

And to start slandering someone as unethical based on something as flimsy as a personal inference isn't so cool, either.

They made a fat mess of the whole thing, that's for damn sure.I don't disagree with you. In my opinion, there's no need for namecalling and I haven't done it. Many of us were in a bit of a panic on Monday and we're not all going to agree with the decisions made.

However, if you have to deliver a ticket request to the ticket office and the ticket office has only one fax number, sending it to PR or some other department should not give you any guarantee of acceptance.

The address given says "Ticket Department" and only one fax for them is given. There's no reason to believe that employees of USSF generally, when receiving a ticket request on their fax machine, are under any duty to deliver them to the ticket department.

As you say, it's not expressly forbidden... but it's not expressly permitted either and you wouldn't likely have any recourse if they rejected all those apps as not received by the ticket office.

[Atouk]

Lawyers disagree all the time.Oh, yeah. Every day, several times a day, even when they're on the same side!

[tog]

I don't disagree with you. In my opinion, there's no need for namecalling and I haven't done it. Many of us were in a bit of a panic on Monday and we're not all going to agree with the decisions made.

However, if you have to deliver a ticket request to the ticket office and the ticket office has only one fax number, sending it to PR or some other department should not give you any guarantee of acceptance.

The address give says "Ticket Department" and only one fax for them is given. There's no reason to believe that employees of USSF generally, when receiving a ticket request on their fax machine, are under any duty to deliver them to the ticket department.

As you say, it's not expressly forbidden... but it's not expressly permitted either and you wouldn't likely have any recourse if they rejected all those apps as not received by the ticket office.
That seems about right.

[Shibb]

As you say, it's not expressly forbidden... but it's not expressly permitted either and you wouldn't likely have any recourse if they rejected all those apps as not received by the ticket office.

Except, once they've sent a person a confirmation that there order was received (by any other method: alternate fax, hotair balloon, flaming arrow) then they've implied that the method was accepted. If they deny these methods outright, that's one thing. It's a bit tougher for them to accept them and then, later, reject them as invalid.

[Bonji]

My fax got through. I spoke with someone in the office on Monday who said the "other" fax number would be accepted. I decided not to re-fax or FedEx. I got an email with a confirmation number. Those are the facts. Your intrepretation is yours to have and to hold.

[Atouk]

Except, once they've sent a person a confirmation that there order was received (by any other method: alternate fax, hotair balloon, flaming arrow) then they've implied that the method was accepted. If they deny these methods outright, that's one thing. It's a bit tougher for them to accept them and then, later, reject them as invalid.Probably so. Of course, receipt ("Please note, this receipt confirmation message signifies only that your order form has been received.") and acceptance as a valid application aren't necessarily the same thing, but I'd be surprised if people who got that email had their apps outright rejected for delivery method.

[NAC Orlando]

All it says is that "Orders will NOT be accepted through any delivery method other than fax or mail," and it never says that fax numbers other than the "OFFICIAL FAX" cannot be used. It does expressly phohibit some things: couriers, for example. But it never expressly prohibits faxing the office fax line. If it did, you'd have a beef. It doesn't, so you don't.

What Bonji did was well within the rules as set forth in the instructions. I'm sorry others of you didn't think of it. Neither did I.

Actually, you are incorrect. As a seasoned attorney, I can tell you that (at least in Florida) courts interpret ambiguities according to the express terms of the agreement, offer, advertisment, or representation. Here there is a clear ambiguity since there is only ONE fax number listed and yet the contract does not specifically state that this is the ONLY fax number. Therefore, again at least under Florida law, courts go first to "parol" eveidence - the conduct of parties involved. Courts (at least in Florida) take a proponderance of the conduct view; therefore, if more people than not were told by USSF that the other fax number was NOT permissible, then (unless wholly unreasonable - which I don't see it being here, the Court would be bound to interpret the represetations as limiting the fax to only the listed number.

I really hope none of this ever becomes an issue, but just wanted to throw in my perspective from down here in Florida, since I, at least somewhat frequently, have come across somewhat similar issues.

[MikeLastort2]

My fax got through. I spoke with someone in the office on Monday who said the "other" fax number would be accepted. I decided not to re-fax or FedEx. I got an email with a confirmation number. Those are the facts. Your intrepretation is yours to have and to hold.

Amy told me that they're sending confirmation numbers to everyone as they receive the applications. Essentially, your confirmation number doesn't mean you're going to get tickets.

[Bonji]

Amy told me that they're sending confirmation numbers to everyone as they receive the applications. Essentially, your confirmation number doesn't mean you're going to get tickets.
I understand that. I never said it did.

[Atouk]

Amy told me that they're sending confirmation numbers to everyone as they receive the applications.Oddly enough, they sent me two emails (one after 9:00 last night, one after 3:00 p.m. today) with the same confirmation number.

[Bonji]

Oddly enough, they sent me two emails (one after 9:00 last night, one after 3:00 p.m. today) with the same confirmation number.
Me too. Maybe that means we're double thrown out after MikeLastort2 ran to the principal's office?

[tog]

Actually, you are incorrect. As a seasoned attorney, I can tell you that (at least in Florida) courts interpret ambiguities according to the express terms of the agreement, offer, advertisment, or representation. Here there is a clear ambiguity since there is only ONE fax number listed and yet the contract does not specifically state that this is the ONLY fax number. Therefore, again at least under Florida law, courts go first to "parol" eveidence - the conduct of parties involved. Courts (at least in Florida) take a proponderance of the conduct view; therefore, if more people than not were told by USSF that the other fax number was NOT permissible, then (unless wholly unreasonable - which I don't see it being here, the Court would be bound to interpret the represetations as limiting the fax to only the listed number.

I really hope none of this ever becomes an issue, but just wanted to throw in my perspective from down here in Florida, since I, at least somewhat frequently, have come across somewhat similar issues.

That makes sense, except that, as far as I can tell, nobody was TOLD any such thing.

I really hope it doesn't become an issue as well. And I hope everybody here gets their tickets.

[MikeLastort2]

Me too. Maybe that means we're double thrown out after MikeLastort2 ran to the principal's office?

Ran to the principal's office?

:rolleyes:

I want my tickets. I followed the rules to get them. If someone who didn't follow the rules gets tickets and I do not, I'm going to be pissed. Who wouldn't be?

FWIW, Atouk followed the rules too. He sent his application in via FedEx.

[Bonji]

Ran to the principal's office?

:rolleyes:

I want my tickets. I followed the rules to get them. If someone who didn't follow the rules gets tickets and I do not, I'm going to be pissed. Who wouldn't be?

FWIW, Atouk followed the rules too. He sent his application in via FedEx.
Rules are made to be broken, ask Ferris Bueller. :)

[fidlerre]

I want my tickets. I followed the rules to get them. If someone who didn't follow the rules gets tickets and I do not, I'm going to be pissed. Who wouldn't be?
Just curious, but where on earth did the rules say he couldn't fax to their office number? Please point this out.

[NAC Orlando]

[PS: I posted this in another string, but this is sooo important, figured it should go here as well]

Does anyone know if Amy is hot? Single... well at least separated, divorced, or widowed... hell, willing to cheat?

Just Kidding... Lighten Up Francis!

[Atouk]

That makes sense, except that, as far as I can tell, nobody was TOLD any such thing.I thought that (in this thread or elsewhere), some had said they called and were told that was okay while others said they called and were told it wasn't.

(on a side note, I just got an email from the US Soccer store saying my "Journey to Germany" DVD has shipped -- I can honestly say I'd be a little more excited about that if my fax had gone through in the first couple of hundred tries on Monday).

[soccertom]

I just think that Bonji was unfairly attacked as "unethical."

I agree with you. Bonji was not being unethical. Period. Bonji was resourceful. Period.

[tog]

Ran to the principal's office?

:rolleyes:

I want my tickets. I followed the rules to get them. If someone who didn't follow the rules gets tickets and I do not, I'm going to be pissed. Who wouldn't be?

FWIW, Atouk followed the rules too. He sent his application in via FedEx.
The only problem, Mike, is that the rules are, unfortunately, not as black and white as you keep claiming they are.

Seriously. Be pissed at the USSF. They botched this a dozen different ways, one of which was leaving ambiguity in the rules and another of which was telling those people who faxed to an alternate number that their applications were accepted.

But your interpretation of the rules is not fact, as you keep claiming it.

[Atouk]

Just curious, but where on earth did the rules say he couldn't fax to their office number? Please point this out.Here's what the form says now:
Please complete and sign this order form (3 pages) and Ticket Holder Lists.
Mail or fax to:
Ticket Department
Unites States Soccer Federation
1801 S. Prairie Ave
Chicago IL 60616
FAX NUMBER: (312) 528 - 7049

Direct instruction with two options -- mail (as described by them elsewhere in the instructions them to include FexEx, etc.) or fax to that number. Was the form worded the same yesterday? I don't recall.