View Full Version : A Reserves Liga????
The Old Lady Hertha
26 Nov 2005, 08:29 PM
I don't think this will happen for awhile, but I would like to see the a German Bundesliga Reserves kinda like the Reserve League in England.
As much as I like to see how Hertha does in the Regionalliga, but I think it's ridiculous the crowds and the standard of play in the Regionalliga.
I think it's somewhat unfair for some teams that players who return from injury (such as Marko Rehmer and Thorben Marx did for Hertha previously) can play on the reserve team.
I think die Bundesliga should really think about implementing a reserve league. Whether or not it will remains to be seen.
ANy thoughts?
96Squig
26 Nov 2005, 09:09 PM
I think it would be a great idea, but there's like no discussion about it, so it won't happen for a long time...
I think all the fans are for it but we don't have a say in it I'm afraid.
Alex_K
27 Nov 2005, 04:41 AM
As much as I like to see how Hertha does in the Regionalliga, but I think it's ridiculous the crowds and the standard of play in the Regionalliga.
I'd like to see a reserve league as well. But the main reasons are of financial nature. The standard of play is no issue here (well, ok, you could argue that some of these reserve teams lower it ;)).
I think it's somewhat unfair for some teams that players who return from injury (such as Marko Rehmer and Thorben Marx did for Hertha previously) can play on the reserve team.
To be honest, those players usually suck. Players like Ricken etc. are mostly useless when the play for the second team.
I think it would be a great idea, but there's like no discussion about it
That's, like, news to me... ;)
Jaison
27 Nov 2005, 06:36 AM
Has anything happened on the idea of a 3rd Bundesliga? If that would ever happen, then the creation of a Reserves Liga could probably be feasible.
"Eisenfuß" Eilts
27 Nov 2005, 10:45 AM
I don't think this will happen for awhile, but I would like to see the a German Bundesliga Reserves kinda like the Reserve League in England.
As much as I like to see how Hertha does in the Regionalliga, but I think it's ridiculous the crowds and the standard of play in the Regionalliga.
The standard is good in the Regionalliga.
The crowds are also good, if 1st teams play against each other.
I think the standard wouldn´t improve in a reserve BL,
because now the reserve teams play against teams
with older more experienced player.
I think the young reserve players improve better this way.
It´s another point, that the other Regionalliga sides want the reserve teams out of the league,
because they expect higher attendances and more tv money.
The Old Lady Hertha
27 Nov 2005, 06:50 PM
Has anything happened on the idea of a 3rd Bundesliga? If that would ever happen, then the creation of a Reserves Liga could probably be feasible.
I wouldn't mind seeing that...
AGF Aarhus
28 Nov 2005, 10:16 AM
There are good arguments on both sides of this debate, but the one that for me trumps all others is that it is unfair to the non-reserve sides to have reserve sides playing in their leagues.
Hertha II will not field a consistant side for each match. Sometimes it will be full of players who are right on the cusp of playing for the big boys, while other times those players will be unavailble and they will field a not very good side.
If you have teams fighting for promotion, it's unfair that some of them have to play a team that is nearly good enough for the Bundesliga while others get to play a team that is barely good enough for youth league.
Alex_K
28 Nov 2005, 10:51 AM
There are good arguments on both sides of this debate, but the one that for me trumps all others is that it is unfair to the non-reserve sides to have reserve sides playing in their leagues.
Hertha II will not field a consistant side for each match. Sometimes it will be full of players who are right on the cusp of playing for the big boys, while other times those players will be unavailble and they will field a not very good side.
If you have teams fighting for promotion, it's unfair that some of them have to play a team that is nearly good enough for the Bundesliga while others get to play a team that is barely good enough for youth league.
This is a problem, moreso than a cameo from guys like Rehmer or Ricken. Teams that fight relegation might even suffer more from this than those fighting for promotion do, especially as for theam those reserves side are often direct rivals in the relegation battle.
But in the long run, the financial aspect is a much bigger problem. If the Bundesliga clubs want their reserve sides in the RL, they could at least renounce the TV money for compensation.
The Beautiful Frame
28 Nov 2005, 05:57 PM
I don't think this will happen for awhile, but I would like to see the a German Bundesliga Reserves kinda like the Reserve League in England.
As much as I like to see how Hertha does in the Regionalliga, but I think it's ridiculous the crowds and the standard of play in the Regionalliga.
I think it's somewhat unfair for some teams that players who return from injury (such as Marko Rehmer and Thorben Marx did for Hertha previously) can play on the reserve team.
I think die Bundesliga should really think about implementing a reserve league. Whether or not it will remains to be seen.
ANy thoughts?
I'm sorry, but I think you're seriously underestimating the regionalliga. A reserve league would have lower standard of play and much lower attendance than the Regionalliga has.
have a look here:
http://www.homecourt.de/weltfussball/zuschauer.php?Thema=17&Liga=4
and here:
http://www.homecourt.de/weltfussball/zuschauer.php?Thema=133&Liga=5
What makes you think the attendance figures would be any higher in a reserve league? In fact I think they'd be even lower.
PileD
28 Nov 2005, 10:12 PM
I don't think this will happen for awhile, but I would like to see the a German Bundesliga Reserves kinda like the Reserve League in England.
As much as I like to see how Hertha does in the Regionalliga, but I think it's ridiculous the crowds and the standard of play in the Regionalliga.
I think it's somewhat unfair for some teams that players who return from injury (such as Marko Rehmer and Thorben Marx did for Hertha previously) can play on the reserve team.
I think die Bundesliga should really think about implementing a reserve league. Whether or not it will remains to be seen.
ANy thoughts?
I could understand other Amateurclubs (who have the chance to get an class higher) play suddenly (that happened) vs. Schalke amateurs with Gerald Asamoah, van Kerckhoven, Jörg Böhme, Varela, Rodriguez, Delura....
That`s happened.
And two matchdays later the concurrent club for the next class play vs. the real amateurs.
The same thing happened in the other amateurleagues too. E.G. Bayern Munich in the south legue, the amateur opposite has to fight Mehmet Scholl and Co.
In some games the "amateur" teams had more than a professional touch.
I think a reserve league is not a solution for Germany.
But they should make other rules for professional in Amateurleagues.
Cause, Team A leader in the league play e.g. Schalke "amateurs" with the players above, team B play second in that league play Schalke amateurs with their original team.
That`s really not fair.
"Eisenfuß" Eilts
29 Nov 2005, 06:37 AM
I could understand other Amateurclubs (who have the chance to get an class higher) play suddenly (that happened) vs. Schalke amateurs with Gerald Asamoah, van Kerckhoven, Jörg Böhme, Varela, Rodriguez, Delura....
That`s happened.
And two matchdays later the concurrent club for the next class play vs. the real amateurs.
The same thing happened in the other amateurleagues too. E.G. Bayern Munich in the south legue, the amateur opposite has to fight Mehmet Scholl and Co.
In some games the "amateur" teams had more than a professional touch.
You can´t put every player into the reserve team.
They need to be allowed to play for both teams (Doppelspielerlaubnis).
Furthermore since start of this season, reserve teams can only out 3 players on pitch, that are older than 23.
Alex_K
29 Nov 2005, 04:26 PM
What makes you think the attendance figures would be any higher in a reserve league? In fact I think they'd be even lower.
I'm pretty sure he means it the other way round. And the attendances in a reserve league would be way lower than the Regionalliga average, maybe even on Oberliga level. But no way there would be an average attendance higher than 1000 per game.
Alex_K
29 Nov 2005, 04:29 PM
You can´t put every player into the reserve team.
They need to be allowed to play for both teams (Doppelspielerlaubnis).
Furthermore since start of this season, reserve teams can only out 3 players on pitch, that are older than 23.
Not really relevant considering the problem aren't players like Asamoah, but players like Hunt.
The Beautiful Frame
29 Nov 2005, 04:42 PM
I'm pretty sure he means it the other way round. And the attendances in a reserve league would be way lower than the Regionalliga average, maybe even on Oberliga level. But no way there would be an average attendance higher than 1000 per game.
Ah, I see.
"Eisenfuß" Eilts
29 Nov 2005, 06:21 PM
Not really relevant considering the problem aren't players like Asamoah, but players like Hunt.
That Hunt can play in the reserve is totally ok IMO,
he is younger than 20, so he needs match practice.
If you forbid the BL sides to use young talents,
who made a good performances in BL,
for the reserve, you make a step backwards to end of 90s,
where young players got no match practice.
The result of this were the bad performances
in the last UEFA-cup competitions
Furthermore Hunt didn´t do many matches for the reserve this year.
AGF Aarhus
30 Nov 2005, 04:29 AM
Samba at Hertha is a perfect example. I've seen him play for the reserves and absolutely own the competition. It was like watching Michael Jordan play against a Junior High JV team, for any American basketball fans reading this.
But he only plays about half the team's games. The other half of the time he's up with the big boys trying to scrounge a couple minutes. It's not fair for the other teams in the league.
ohk4
30 Nov 2005, 05:12 AM
Werder Bremen II
Games with Aaron Hunt (1 goal in 518 minutes):
3 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss = 11 points
Games without Aaron Hunt:
1 win, 2 draws, 9 losses = 5 points
Of course, this could be a coincidence but it does make one think.
Alex_K
30 Nov 2005, 10:36 AM
If you forbid the BL sides to use young talents,
who made a good performances in BL,
for the reserve, you make a step backwards to end of 90s,
where young players got no match practice.
The result of this were the bad performances
in the last UEFA-cup competitions
That's were the reserve league comes into play.
The Old Lady Hertha
30 Nov 2005, 11:34 AM
Samba at Hertha is a perfect example. I've seen him play for the reserves and absolutely own the competition. It was like watching Michael Jordan play against a Junior High JV team, for any American basketball fans reading this.
But he only plays about half the team's games. The other half of the time he's up with the big boys trying to scrounge a couple minutes. It's not fair for the other teams in the league.
What do the Amateur teams have to gain playing against Regionalliga opponents? I would like to see a Reserve league where Samba could get a chance, lets say, to face off against Jose Paolo Guerrero in a game just to see how he can cope with at least a Bundesliga prospect.