11/24 -- Houston Chronicle column: "Earthquakes would be good addition to any city"

[anderson]

Glenn's column in today's Chron reviews the situation in San Jose and discusses a few points about the possible relocation to Houston:

AEG has done its due diligence here, and the front-runners for a temporary stadium would have to be the Richard Berry Complex off Highway 290 or UH's Robertson Stadium. UH officials would clearly benefit both financially and from the exposure a franchise would bring, but do they know it?As we've noted here before, AEG has been working with local entities in Houston during the last three months. AEG is reportedly back in discussions with UH. The more that Dave Maggard negotiates about MLS in Robertson, the better. Regardless of what AEG decides, it's a very good thing for Maggard to develop a more realistic understanding about what he can expect from an MLS team.

Even if AEG doesn't move to Houston, Oliver Luck, CEO of the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority, has been involved in all of AEG's efforts with the various potential short-term venues, including Cy-Fair and Robertson, so that knowledge and expertise wouldn't be lost. A new investor wouldn't be starting from scratch in terms of a temporary venue.

Eventually getting a new stadium would be a must, and talks between AEG and Houston ISD over the re-development of Delmar Stadium have been positive.HISD officials have also been up to Frisco to evaluate the venue and business arrangements there. And again, even if AEG doesn't move here next year, Oliver Luck has been involved with the HISD discussions and would be able to help transition the process to a new investor group. The progress with HISD is probably why Don Garber mentioned a couple of times that MLS is very confident about a long-term venue deal in Houston.

As for local ownership, one would hope Jim McIngvale, Chuck Watson or Giorgio Borlenghi would step up knowing how many in Houston are connected with soccer. Why not an investment group?Well, they're the usual suspects, along with Lone Star Sports & Entertainment, which held discussions with MLS before the last round of expansion. AEG has reportedly held discussions with two potential investor groups in Houston.

If the Earthquakes move to Houston, it would not be like getting an expansion team. Many current players and coaches would likely move with the franchise.And that situation would at least make the time frame more feasible in terms of the on-field matters.

The picking of a name, the hiring of a staff and the finalizing of marketing plans and facility arrangements would have to come together quickly.As we know, facility arrangements are in progress in anticipation of a potential move. Tim Leiwecke also mentioned last week that AEG already has some front office personnel lined up in the event of a move. Of course, that's Leiwecke, so who knows.

As we've discussed in other threads, the Houston Chronicle, the weekly radio show, and the Spanish language media have been covering the MLS-to-Houston story for at least two years. Even the English language local TV news shows have covered some of the more visible episodes in the on-going MLS-to-Houston saga.

The point of that regular media coverage about MLS-to-Houston is that it's a little easier to get a team going successfully for 2006 than it would be without such coverage. It would still be extremely challenging, of course. We'd still have a better chance of doing things more effectively if a team started play here in 2007 or 2009 than next April. I'm not suggesting otherwise. But it's also the case that most of the potential fan base has been aware of the possibility of a team in 2006 for some time. There's no way you're a soccer fan in Houston and don't know that there's a possibility that Houston may have a team next year. It's not like having a team move here would strike people as coming out of left field.

Hopefully we'll all know more very soon.Amen. Happy Thanksgiving.

Glenn Davis: Earthquakes would be good addition to any city (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3481949)

[Jabinho]

Is that "Field Turf" or grass? Robertson Stadium

http://www.collegegridirons.com/cusa/images/robertson101.jpg

[anderson]

Is that "Field Turf" or grass? Robertson StadiumThat's probably part of the current discussions. Dave Maggard, UH's AD, said once that FieldTurf would be required. He said another time that "maybe" FieldTurf would be good. If you ask him enough times, you'd probably get a number of different answers on that topic, just as he usually meanders around most topics. Maggard has a reputation for making comments that don't always appear well-conceived to many people. He needs to develop a better understanding about what can reasonably be expected from an MLS team in exchange for using Robertson as a temporary venue for one or two years. He doesn't have the only feasible short-term venue in this market, so it's not like he has AEG (or some other future investor) in a take it or leave it position. Then again, I also saw the comments from SJSU's President, so maybe people start losing business sense once they've been in university administration long enough. ;)

[CeltTexan]

I've said it before. The very last people AEG or a local investor wants to get into bed with is HISD. They are hands down the worst run business in the State of Texas!

Not to mention that a renovated Delmar WILL have FieldTurf and thus us Houston die hards will see Team MLS Houston perfrom on a gridiron marked field, with high temps during the summer and an overall feel of Minor League Soccer and Not Major League Soccer.

AEG and a local I/O would be wise to avoid HISD. However, in my meetings with Oliver it seems he has some friends in HISD and is really pushing this issue without really caring for how the Major League status of our pro soccer team looks and feels.

To solve the whole issue the local I/O and AEG needs to renovate the dump that is Delmar and let HISD have a quality facility for its high school football. Thus HISD can let AEG and the local I/O to build a SSS with about 25-30K seating on land that HISD owns throught the city. HISD has multiple properties in Houston that can be great locations for a SSS.

My biggest fear of all is having a moved franchise in blue playing on Fieldturf in August and having to kickoff at noon each Sat in the fall cuz the HISD gridiron coaches want that "communist sawker the hell outta there" so they can then have the massively important Sharpstown-Reagan showdown in front of 500 people. To HISD and their people...can you guess which sport is of a higher priority??? I saw a week or so ago a post from some coach of a high school team and he stated that,"if you don't know about the hatred towards soccer in the U.S. than you've never coached high school soccer!"

Not only does HISD officials lie, cheat and steal from tax payers and their own teachers but they are experts about promising the world only to come back later and alter the deal per their own interest. I speak of personal expereince with HISD officials, principals and more specificaly the AD's with HISD.

Garber wants to land the massive Latino market in Houston when MLS comes here and they have no clue as to how awful HISD treats Latinos trying to find a new home in Houston. HISD sports directors have free will to damage the beautiful game during the high school season. Immigrant kids from the Americas, Africa and Eastern Europe are forced to play on incorrectly marked fields or fields with 6 inches of standing water. No locker rooms, water left out from weeks earlier, the scoreboard is not turned on cuz "it costs too much money." even theough Jr. High gridiron gets the scoreboard turned on.

It boils down to respect. Moving a two time MLS Cup champion is bad for the league as it is. Then having that franchise move to High School stadium reeks of mickey mouse operations to a very soccer savvy fan base we have in Houston. Look, us die hards here at BS land will go no matter where the team plays. Yet soccer is still trying to gain respect in our antion as a spectator sport and legit pro league. Too many potential fans from nations where the beautiful game is way more than a sport will be confused as to why Houston has a pro team playing on fake grass when simply put the sport deserves natural grass when ever possible. Any deal cut with HISD is like getting in bed with Satan himself. Garber nneds to do more homework and not trust the words from those that stand to gain from this Delmar proposal. In the long run the Earthquakes being moved must be worth the bridges burned with a great fan base in San Jose who have endured all sorts of mickey mouse shennanigans from the league.

[anderson]

We've covered all this ground about HISD before, ad nauseam. All of these issues have been beaten to death, so to summarize all the multi-page threads, it always comes down to this: an MLS investor who puts $20-30 million into a venue in cooperation with HISD will negotiate the terms of the venue's development, appearance, components, usage, etc.

[CeltTexan]

Sure right up to the point that HISD balks on some "sticking points" concerning Delmar and when high school football is to be played and Team Houstom MLS has to then play a few seasons at a freakin' Cy-Fair 12,000 seater after our relationship with Maggard and UofH has run out.

Anderson, HISD swims in multi-million dollar trusts and funds and finds ways to ******** it all up. The point is to have any I/O of a pro sports franchise in Houston avoid getting in bed with HISD. For their sake! And for their money's sake.

[cristoforo7]

I disagree with Glenn Davis's point regarding the continuity of the team being better than an expansion franchise vis a vis the players and coaches. First, none of the coaches would make the move; that is fairly certain. Second, none of the developmental players will make the move. Third, none of the players who are out of contract will make the move. Fourth, there may be a player or two who are near retirement and will choose that option versus a move.

Essentially, from a coaching and roster perspective, the team will not resemble this year's Earthquakes and will be, in a word, gutted (and thus rebuilt from the ground up).

[anderson]

I disagree with Glenn Davis's point regarding the continuity of the team being better than an expansion franchise vis a vis the players and coaches. First, none of the coaches would make the move; that is fairly certain. Second, none of the developmental players will make the move. Third, none of the players who are out of contract will make the move. Fourth, there may be a player or two who are near retirement and will choose that option versus a move.

Essentially, from a coaching and roster perspective, the team will not resemble this year's Earthquakes and will be, in a word, gutted (and thus rebuilt from the ground up).Glenn Davis interviewed Dominic Kinnear on the radio last night. When asked if he would move to Houston as the coach in the event that the team moves to Houston, Dom said that he hasn't yet decided but that he probably would. He said that he believed that most of the players would move and that he still saw it as his team so he would want to still be the coach. He added that it would be "foolish" of him to rule out moving.

I'm sure that a player or two would retire and some would be traded, just as happens every off-season. Some front office personnel or other staff may not want to move for personal reasons. But Kinnear himself said last night that he would probably move. The players, of course, are under contract with the league and would move just as they would if they were traded (unless the CBA says otherwise).

[ElJefe]

Glenn Davis interviewed Dominic Kinnear on the radio last night. When asked if he would move to Houston as the coach in the event that the team moves to Houston, Dom said that he hasn't yet decided but that he probably would. He said that he believed that most of the players would move and that he still saw it as his team so he would want to still be the coach. He added that it would be "foolish" of him to rule out moving.
The fact that there are only 12 top-level coaching positions in this country and he currently has one of them probably plays into that statement.
I'm sure that a player or two would retire and some would be traded, just as happens every off-season. Some front office personnel or other staff may not want to move for personal reasons. But Kinnear himself said last night that he would probably move. The players, of course, are under contract with the league and would move just as they would if they were traded (unless the CBA says otherwise).
It's foolish to believe that the coaches and players wouldn't relocate largely en masse, just as they do in every other team relocation in this country.

[cristoforo7]

What is foolish is to generalize and fail to examine specific facts. Such as the salaries most of these players earn, which they could easily trump by any number of options, whether they involve playing soccer, other soccer related activities or simply non-soccer related income, and all of which do not involve relocating from the Bay Area to Houston.

So let's talk a few, specific examples. Player wise, the Quakes have already released two players; Chung has stated he may retire; Cailiff is out of contract and trying out with Danish clubs; Onstad is old enough to retire and everyone is already talking about who should replace him. At most you'll get one season out of DeRosario before he moves to Toronto in 2007 (same for Onstad if he doesn't retire/move on).

These are facts that exist regardless of relocation; however, the demands of moving several thousand miles to somewhere you've never lived before and which has an uncertain future (as well as similar concerns by others on the team) is exactly the type of thing that will push someone over the edge.

I will bet allcomers the ante of your choice that, assuming a 2006 relocation to Houston, there are no more than one current coach and six current players who will be there for the first game in Robertson Stadium.

[cristoforo7]

The fact that there are only 12 top-level coaching positions in this country and he currently has one of them probably plays into that statement.There are a lot more than 12 "top-level" coaching positions when you consider the national teams and the many Division I college programs.

If I were him and the question were put to me, of course I wouldn't rule it out. It lessens his negotiating position with regard to other options. He also has a bit less leverage because of the playoff loss to the Galaxy. If he has some relatives or close friends in Houston, or evenTexas, I would tend to see it as more of a possibility. Otherwise, no, not with what they pay him.

[ElJefe]

What is foolish is to generalize and fail to examine specific facts. Such as the salaries most of these players earn, which they could easily trump by any number of options, whether they involve playing soccer, other soccer related activities or simply non-soccer related income, and all of which do not involve relocating from the Bay Area to Houston.
...which is the reason why most trades in MLS end up with a player retiring rather than relocating.

Oh, wait. That only happens rarely.

[ElJefe]

There are a lot more than 12 "top-level" coaching positions when you consider the national teams and the many Division I college programs.
Which national team is hiring?

And no, coaching Division I college soccer is not a "top-level" coaching position because, well, it's not at the top.

[cristoforo7]

...which is the reason why most trades in MLS end up with a player retiring rather than relocating.Yep, they are slinging those players who are making between 10k and 30k per year from one end of the continent to the other.

The players that get traded are usually the ones that are making significant dollars, or who are toward the end of contract and due for a significant raise based on their play (or who have been drafted but not yet found a place on the team). Of course they are going to typically relocate or decide to ply their trade overseas.

Again, your overreaching statements lack supporting evidence.

[cristoforo7]

Quakes players who earned over $50K:

Brian Ching, forward ($120,000, $133,000)

Wade Barrett, defender ($130,000, $130,000)

Mark Chung, midfielder ($124, $124,000) -- potential retiree this year or next

Pat Onstad, goalkeeper ($119,350, $119,350) -- potential retiree this year or next (or to Toronto 2007)

Danny Califf, defender ($101,822, $101,822) -- tryout in Denmark, out of contract

Dwayne DeRosario, forward ($95,000, $95,000) -- potential to Toronto 2007 or overseas this year

Brian Mullan, midfielder-forward ($95,000, $95,000)

Troy Dayak, defender ($85,000, $86,250) -- retired (injury)

Ronaldo Cerritos, forward ($75,000, $81,250) -- 8 years in MLS, how many left?

Brad Davis, midfielder ($66,000, $71,000)

Ian Russell, midfielder ($68,250, $69,500) -- played in only 13 games

Craig Waibel, defender ($65,000, $65,000) -- out all year with ACL injury

Ricardo Clark, midfielder ($51,975, $62,600)

[Lark Howorth]

You may be right about the number of players and coaches who would move--I don't know. But any player so lacking in the dedication to play top-level soccer that they refuse to move (especially to a major, multicultural American city)--well, I understand their concerns, but good riddance.

And it's the guys at the lower end of the pay scale who should see the most benefit in moving from the most expensive metro area in the country, to one of the least expensive (of major cities).

[anderson]

Quakes players who earned over $50K:...Even so, a team that has Barrett, Ching, Clark, Mullen, Russell, Davis - and probably at least a couple from Cerritos, DeRosario, Onstad, and Chung - is still a lot better than the personnel you'd get in an expansion draft. Then you also have players like Moreno, Gray, and Robinson, who aren't going to retire at this point in their careers, and you still have a pretty solid core of players that's far better than what you'd get in an expansion draft.

[chapulincolorado]

You may be right about the number of players and coaches who would move--I don't know. But any player so lacking in the dedication to play top-level soccer that they refuse to move (especially to a major, multicultural American city)--well, I understand their concerns, but good riddance.

...and those who don't want to move, what are their choices? Any professional soccer player in the US only seeking his fortunes in the US have very limited options.

[cristoforo7]

Moreno making only $30+k per year. I don't see him packing up and moving all over again for that kind of money after the year he had. If he gets a substanial raise, sure. Otherwise, he must have options elsewhere in the soccer world.

Gray would move if given no other choice. He is young, but certainly must not be enjoying the game of musical chairs MLS is playing with him. Chicago, San Jose, ?? all in the span of six months.

Unless Russell dramatically changes his play, he won't be a major contributor to a successful team.

One factor that would encourage the guys with salaries on the low end is if they are set up with auxiliary income-- coaching youth teams, etc. But that takes time to develop if they don't have pre-existing background or connections in Houston or someone already there setting it up for them. Many of the players and all of the coaches have that type of connectivity here in the Bay Area based on their history in the area and/or

MLS isn't the NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL where your average salary is $500K or above and being traded has no significant financial implications. For the guys below a certain income level, there has to be some value added somewhere, whether it's the area they live in or income augmentation or something else (in the case of the young guys, the opportunity to move up in the ranks is nice but doesn't pay the bills).

Look at Wes Hart. He was making $50K with the Quakes, along with some local coaching I believe, but had an opportunity in Colorado with a club there (where he has family/connections) and gave up his Quakes gig in the middle of the season.

Of course you will see some guys make the move, but the level of attrition will really mean remaking the structure of the team from scratch. You just have to hope that the guys that do move are cohesive amongst themselves, if you want to maintain any semblance of a team that is nothing more than a glorified expansion franchise.

[JazzyJ]

I think you'd see something in-between "gutted" and "typical off-season movement". Califf is considering Europe and has said that he would be much more inclined to play in MLS next year if the team stays in San Jose. Chung has said that he would almost certainly retire if the club relocates. He doesn't want to move his family again.

As for the coaches, it's not clear. GK coach Tim Hanley probably would not go because he is also GK coach at Stanford and is involved in a number of local endeavors. Dom and Doyle, besides growing up in the Bay Area, have multiple kids in school. Doyle has a few local gigs outside of the Quakes though he may be inclined to go if Dom goes.

DeRo may be inclined to play in Europe next year since he was close to doing so last year, and if that's his short to medium term goal anyway he may not want to move his family to Houston and then again to Europe.

Gray would be very bummed, being a San Jose native, but I think he'd probably move.

Cerritos loves being back in San Jose but I don't think he's ready to retire. I think he'd probably go.

Business is business but the unfortunate thing if the team moves is that it has such a strong connection to the local community, maybe more than any other team in MLS. Dom and Doyle grew up in the Bay Area and played for the Quakes. I believe Hanley also played for the Quakes and coaches at Stanford. Then a lot of the younger guys are either from the Bay Area or played at local universities (Cochrane, Fulton, Wondolewski, Nash, Rodriguez, Gray, Roner, Levesque - Quakes waived Levesque but I think they still own his rights). This is largely due to the fact that Dom and Doyle do quite a bit of scouting at the local universities and also due to the fact that it's easier to get a player to accept a developmental contract if they can live at or close to home.