phoenix in MLS

[EscoDU01]

Phoenix metro population has just passed 4.1 million people... when do they get a team? at 5 million? 6 million?

[szazzy]

Probably more like 25-50 million or so. dollars that is.

To purchase the expansion team, come up with financing for a soccer specific stadium with a public/private partnership, and then operate the team, that's probably a bare minimum amount for an owner to expect to be on the hook for.

Once you have that, you're in. I guarantee it.

[hansel]

I grew up in Phoenix, and although I love it, I'm not really sure how well an MLS team would do there. It's not really a great sports town. Fans are very, very fickle, and love to hop on the bandwagon when their team is doing well, but are quickly out the door if their team is struggling (e.g., Diamondbacks, Suns, Cardinals). There is an enormous Hispanic population, so that would be great, but I didn't know any white kids at all that played soccer.

In addition, you can't forget that from March until October, the temperature is above 100 degrees nearly every day. June, July, and August are just brutal. It takes an air-conditioned retractable roof to get 20,000 fans to watch the Diamondbacks, I'm really not sure if any team could get 15,000 to watch soccer in those months.

[Hierarchyfive]

Phoenix metro population has just passed 4.1 million people... when do they get a team? at 5 million? 6 million?
Phoenix is a great soccer city and MLS expansion there would be a great thing. However, MLS is a summer league. Phoenix temperatures usually run 90-110 during the summer and I cant imagine that would be good for player fatigue and attendence.

[falvo]

Phoenix metro population has just passed 4.1 million people... when do they get a team? at 5 million? 6 million?
Don't wish to offend anyone but isn't it kind of hot to play soccer there in the summer? Maybe if and when the MLS goes to a September -May schedule? I just don't know how they can play in that heat. This is another reason why I don't understand why they would want to move the Quakes to Houston. I'm not sure but I have a feeling the weather in Houston is pretty hot & humid as opposed to San Jose or the SF Bay Area where its beautiful almost the whole year. I mean we are now at the end of November and its still in the 70's in San Jose. I'm sure it cools down and gets nicer in the fall, but aren't the summers brutal?

[wonko389]

if the NFL and MLB cant draw shite there, I seriously doubt the ability of MLS. I read somewhere that the Phoenix fanbase is the most overextended for sports as far as dollars in area per team in the nation.

[EscoDU01]

i hear all the concerns and agree with about half.. but, the cardinals wouldnt draw anywhere.

[PhillyMLS]

if the NFL and MLB cant draw shite there, I seriously doubt the ability of MLS. I read somewhere that the Phoenix fanbase is the most overextended for sports as far as dollars in area per team in the nation.

I remember reading an article like that as well. If I remember correctly phoenix is like florida in that a good portion of its population are people who come from another area but still have loyal ties to their old home. So most of the people still follow their "hometown" team and pretty much ignore the Phoenix teams. Plus it is just too dang hot for soccer down there in the summer.

[SoccerPrime]

if the NFL and MLB cant draw shite there, I seriously doubt the ability of MLS. I read somewhere that the Phoenix fanbase is the most overextended for sports as far as dollars in area per team in the nation.
Here is the article that discusses where the best sports towns are (and where MLS, specifically, should target).
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6143100/

[fc koshigaya]

I remember reading an article like that as well. If I remember correctly phoenix is like florida in that a good portion of its population are people who come from another area but still have loyal ties to their old home. So most of the people still follow their "hometown" team and pretty much ignore the Phoenix teams.

I don't think this would apply so much to MLS considering it's only 10 years old. There's a huge difference between the tradition of the Yankees and the Metrostars. Phoenix is a pretty fickle market but the ownership hasn't been reliable except for Colangelo and the Suns.........Colangelos Diamondbacks peaked early and exploded, the Cardinals are a mess and the Coyotes had problems with both their lack of success and the arena problems. The Arena football team is pretty popular so niche sports do work in this market. Considering the salary cap and single entity contracts are in place, I don't think that you'd have the same problems as the DBacks and their long term commitments for short term gain strategy.

The heat is a valid problem.....they would probably have to build a retractable roof dome like the BOB. I hope Phoenix gets a team but I'm starting to see the problems more clearly.

[SoccerPrime]

For the billionth time, it wasn't attendance that tanked the Florida MLS teams.
It was management, or in both cases, the lack-there-of.

[Chowderhead]

Is Phoenix cosmopolitan enough? That's what I need to know. I'm sure that with all of the LCN-retirees in the area you can get a hold of a decent suit and some decent marinara sauce. Phoenix probably has a bunch of quality hair stylists, as well. That might not be good enough for Citizen of the World Garber, but it's good enough for me.

But I do have my concerns. Is the water good enough for making good dough?

[szazzy]

Is Phoenix cosmopolitan enough? That's what I need to know. I'm sure that with all of the LCN-retirees in the area you can get a hold of a decent suit and some decent marinara sauce. Phoenix probably has a bunch of quality hair stylists, as well. That might not be good enough for Citizen of the World Garber, but it's good enough for me.

But I do have my concerns. Is the water good enough for making good dough?

According to these guys, unlike Tashkent, Richmond, or Kansas City, there is no evidence of Phoenix becoming a global city. ;)

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/index.html


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[fc koshigaya]

Great to see that Tijuana made the list.........maybe if Phoenix added a couple of donkey shows, we could get some consideration!

[Freddy Garcia Lives]

Chowderhead, your killing me. Most of the Phoenix expansion is young families in areas like Chandler, Gilbert, Suprise, and Tollison.

Hey I grew up playings soccer and am white (went to high scholl with Pablo Mastreoni, but I guess that don't help prove my point).

Cardinals have the same problem as the MLS Florida teams had, owner.

Diamondbacks have never been a tank in attendance. Really not bad for a poor team the last two years. Just not huge the last few years.

I have opinions about hockey where there is no natural ice.

All that said, unless there are plans for a retractable roof stadium holding 25,000 than I say no. People ain't coming out in the heat, plain and simple. And don't get involved with any stadium plans that involve Bill Bidwell, bad idea.

If you had the stadium and owner, do a better job with the latino fan base than MLS tradition shows (except in So Cal).

[hansel]

Chowderhead, your killing me. Most of the Phoenix expansion is young families in areas like Chandler, Gilbert, Suprise, and Tollison.

Hey I grew up playings soccer and am white (went to high scholl with Pablo Mastreoni, but I guess that don't help prove my point).

Cardinals have the same problem as the MLS Florida teams had, owner.

Diamondbacks have never been a tank in attendance. Really not bad for a poor team the last two years. Just not huge the last few years.

I have opinions about hockey where there is no natural ice.

All that said, unless there are plans for a retractable roof stadium holding 25,000 than I say no. People ain't coming out in the heat, plain and simple. And don't get involved with any stadium plans that involve Bill Bidwell, bad idea.

If you had the stadium and owner, do a better job with the latino fan base than MLS tradition shows (except in So Cal).

This post sums things up very nicely. Even if all other ingredients are in place (and for most part, they easily could be), I just don't see people coming out to see soccer in the heat. Besides the fact that the play would suck.

[the shelts]

Hansel and Freddy Garcia sum it up well.

When its 115 degrees in the shade I sure as $&%$ am not going to go to a stadium for 90 mins to sit on a metal bench to watch anything. If the Florida Marlins can't make it work for America's national pastime in 6th largest metro area in the USA then the Phoenix (insert any sun themed name here) won't work.

Don't get me wrong, love to see it happen but ................

[Sundevil9]

Chowderhead, your killing me. Most of the Phoenix expansion is young families in areas like Chandler, Gilbert, Suprise, and Tollison.

Hey I grew up playings soccer and am white (went to high scholl with Pablo Mastreoni, but I guess that don't help prove my point).

Cardinals have the same problem as the MLS Florida teams had, owner.

Diamondbacks have never been a tank in attendance. Really not bad for a poor team the last two years. Just not huge the last few years.

I have opinions about hockey where there is no natural ice.

All that said, unless there are plans for a retractable roof stadium holding 25,000 than I say no. People ain't coming out in the heat, plain and simple. And don't get involved with any stadium plans that involve Bill Bidwell, bad idea.

If you had the stadium and owner, do a better job with the latino fan base than MLS tradition shows (except in So Cal).


I think that technical things like making a stadium comfortable are doable. First, a vast majority of MLS games are played at night. And in all honesty, a Phx day game is no less taxing (for both fans and players) than a day game in Dallas or DC. But if there's a partial roof over the fans, and creatively spaced misters (a la the Phx Firebirds back in the early 90's in Scottsdale Stadium) they can beat most of that.

The problem is that folks look at the PHX metro area and say, hispanics + young families = ripe picking for MLS. And that is a false equation. For an MLS team to be successful, they need to just draw soccer/sports fans, because if you start to market it for soccer families and have a parking lot full of minivans, you won't bring in the hispanics, and if you try to fill up the seats with hispanics, you'll keep the families away. And really you just want soccer people watching soccer games.

And while you give some decent reasons for why Phoenix isn't fickle.....you're actually telling me why Phoenix sports fans are very fickle. It IS a bandwaggon town. There's just too many activities all around that spectator sports is way down on the priority list. The Suns are the only team in town that are 'multi-generational' where kids have grown up watching what mom and dad have watched. The other teams are 'new' even though they've each been there 10 years. Yeah, Bidwell isn't a good owner, but he did bring the NFL to the Valley, how does everyone show their support? Come to the stadium when somebody like Chicago, Dallas, or Denver comes to town. The Diamondbacks went from the mid to high 30k attendence figures to mid twenties this past season, but they're only only 50% full. The bandwaggon accounted for a nearly 30% decrease in sales.

If the league is only going to have 18 to 20 cities, I'm sorry, I like PHX, but it's not going to rate as a top 20 soccer market. There's much easier picking for the next 7 teams: A second NY, Rochester, Houston, Philly, Seattle, Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Cleveland, St. Louis, Vancouver, Hartford, North Carolina. It's a strong list of potentials, folks that have approached MLS with some sort of plans, or beginnings of plans. Phx is just way behind the curve, and has too much to overcome.

[Freddy Garcia Lives]

I'm not saying Phoenix isn't a bandwagon town, in many ways it is. Just mostly trying to point out some things about the valley those not familar with Phoenix may not know (and I am a hopeless D-backs apologist, just can't be impartial there). I actually believe that Phoenix would not be real high on my expansion list, but a point of conversation would be:

If there was a right stadium and owner situation would the support be more like the big four in Phoenix that doesn't have the greatest support, or more like the NLL or AFL teams that have done quite well for being niche sports?

Personally I think they would struggle with attendance, but as pointed out earlier here they don't really have loyalties to compete with as they do in the big 4 sports.

[yure323]

Tucson would be better for MLS than Phoenix.