d'alessandro, quiroga, demichelis

[in da soup]

question for you and i hope this is the right forum to post it.

as an argentina fan, i would like to know how the argentines are doing in the bundesliga. i am particularly interested in d'alessandro. we never hear much of him but he was an exceptional little player at river plate, and i very much hope he makes the argentina squad for the world cup but this is looking less and less likely as the current manager doesn't seem to pick him.

has he made an impact for wolfsburg? do the fans like him? is he happy at the club?

would also like to know how quiroga is doing? he was in the confederations cup squad but haven't really heard of him since.

and demichelis? made his international debut against england last weekend, and played again against qatar in midweek, and seems to have a good chance of making the world cup squad, as cover for mascherano in the holding midfield role. is this the position he plays for bayern? and does magath always pick him? and do the fans like him?

thank you for any answers.

[scorpio81]

simply put, the answer to ALL your questions about demichelis is "YES!" :D

but im sure others can give you more input... im just feeling lazy... :p

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Two Argentines you forgot to mention was Juan Carlos Menseguez and Diego Klimowicz of VfL Wolfsburg. Menseguez is a talent who is doing the equivalent of zero right now for WOlfsburg (1 assist in like 10+ games). Klimowicz is actually a pretty decent scorer (12 games 7 goals) and I like him. D'Alessandro has undoubted talent, but I just haven't seen enough of him to think that he's as good as everyone hypes him up to be.

[in da soup]

that's interesting, i have never heard of those other two guys, but klimowicz certainly seems to have an impressive scoring record.

in terms of the hype surrounding d'alessandro, i am interested where it comes from? is it in the german press or the argentine? has he made a reputation for himself in germany? is he a player germans talk about? or has he faded into obscurity?

he is a talented player and popular amongst argentines.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

D´Allesandro is a very good player with lots of technical skill,
without any doubt the best player of his team,
but no ready player like e.g. Ballack.


is it in the german press or the argentine?

When D´Alessandro came from Argentine he got hyped.
Currently German press hype others at the playmaker position,
primarily Ballack and Dutch Van der Vaart, more than D´Allesandro.


has he made a reputation for himself in germany?

Yes, i think, that everybody, who is interested in Bundesliga football,
knows him.


is he a player germans talk about?

Yes, he´s one of the best playmakers in the Bundesliga,
but he is also known as a player, who plays only very good,
when he´s in good mood, but does not play constant.
But the German press also says it about other world-class playmakers
like Micoud, Marcelinho or Rosicky.

[Alex_K]

has he made an impact for wolfsburg? do the fans like him?

I actually thought about pointing out the irony of the above, but I don't want to hijack this thread ;).

[96Squig]

I actually thought about pointing out the irony of the above, but I don't want to hijack this thread ;).
Yeah we all love our Wolves and their so-called fans ;-)

Anyways, since I know some people of the city, many think that he's an arrogant brat... those are normal inhabitants (wolfsburg is more like a village btw, everybody knows everybody) and no fans though.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

I actually thought about pointing out the irony of the above, but I don't want to hijack this thread ;).

Yes, Wolfsburg is no real football club, they are a subcompany of VW
without huge fan support, but we speak about D´Allesandro and not about VfL.

[in da soup]

i had no idea what sort of club wolfsburg were. from what you say, they seem to be a small club from a small town. i presume they don't have a big history. certainly they aren't one of the more famous german clubs. they seem to like buying argentines.

i find it strange that d'alessandro chose to go there. perhaps, seeing as you mention the VW link, they could afford to pay him well?

if he is clearly their best player, he may grow frustrated there. i wonder if bigger german clubs would want him?

it sounds like d'alessandro's rated in germany, if regarded as a bit inconsistent. but he's young, playing in a completely different footballing culture, and i'm sure his consistency will improve.

he's unlikely to make the world cup squad because argentina have many of his type of player, players like messi and aimar, and the manager will probably want different types of options on the substitutes bench. this saddens me because i am a big fan.

[wolfsburgh]

D'Alessandro, as other posters have mentioned, is very good at times, but can be absolutely invisible other times. In other words, he is very inconsistent. There is not a lot of "in between" with him. He's either very good or pretty bad. He is obviously a very talented player. But I disagree with what Eisenfuss said about him being the "best" player on Wolfsburg. He may be the most talented, the most highly regarded, the player with the most potential, but he is not the "best" player on the team given his wholly inconsistent performances. Another issue with D'Alessandro is that he has missed a lot of time because of injuries and Argentine National Team commitments (including the Olympics last season). Perhaps that has added to his inconsistency. BTW, in response to your question about whether D'Alessandro is happy at Wolfsburg, the answer is no. During the off season, he requested to be transferred (Atletico Madrid was the team everyone was talking about), but the coach and GM (Fach and Strunz) made a special trip to Argentina and convinced him to stay with the club this season.

Quiroga is solid. A legitimate starting centerback in the BL, but not an elite player.

Klimowicz is a fairly good club player, a tall-ish center forward type with limited skills, who will score goals for you (although he seems to miss a lot of opportunities as well). But he is not an international-caliber player.

Of the four Wolfsburg Argentines, I rate Menseguez the lowest. He's a skilled player, but he just sort of flits around and doesn't add much to the team's overall play. He was starting early in the season, but but not lately. Part of Menseguez's problem is that he's a bit of a "tweener." That is, he's not really a striker, but he's not a midfielder, either. And he's not a classic winger, for that matter. So while he's versatile and can give you a few different looks, he doesn't seem like someone who can stamp his authority on the game.

Wolfsburg developed an Argentine connection through its former management (particularly Peter Pander), but not what Strunz is in charge, my guess is that the emphasis on South American players will decrease.

Finally, in response to those casting aspersions against Wolfsburg the club, keep in mind that they are a 1.BL club, and have been so for close to 10 years now. While they are not an elite team in the BL, they have been a top-half of the table club for the most part, and have played some of the more attractive soccer in the BL. Compare and contrast that recent record to clubs like Hannover and Braunschweig. So while Wolfsburg is not a premier destination, there are maybe only 6 or 8 clubs in all of Germany which offer better opportunities (Bayern, Bremen, Schalke, Hamburg, Hertha, Leverkusen, maybe Stuttgart, maybe the financially troubled Dortmund).

[96Squig]

Agree on most parts with you wolfsburg, but Wolfsburg is just such a boring place with so few room for imrpovement that I don't think that they will be able to have a good future in the mid-term run.
Also the team clearly lacks the fanbase, you can see that quite well when they play here, they don't even fill up the away section.

[wolfsburgh]

Agree on most parts with you wolfsburg, but Wolfsburg is just such a boring place with so few room for imrpovement that I don't think that they will be able to have a good future in the mid-term run.
Also the team clearly lacks the fanbase, you can see that quite well when they play here, they don't even fill up the away section.

Squig: I don't disagree with you re. Wolfsburg being a boring place or having little "upside" (my word, not yours), but I still believe that with VW's backing and commitment, the club could approximate some of the success that Leverkusen has had in the last decade.

And as for the fan base, not only is Wolfsburg a relative new entry in German professional soccer, but it may well be the smallest city in the Bundesliga (not sure about that, but I think it is a fair guess), so it should not be a surprise that they lack the fan base that more established clubs from bigger places have. Give them some time :)

[Alex_K]

That would be Unterhaching and Homburg (the smallest cities, I mean). Wolfsburg should be no. 3 or 4, I think.

[96Squig]

That would be Unterhaching and Homburg (the smallest cities, I mean). Wolfsburg should be no. 3 or 4, I think.
Gladbach? Leverkusen? Haching?

[Alex_K]

Gladbach? Leverkusen? Haching?

Well, I kinda mentioned Haching already ;). M'gladbach and Leverkusen are bigger than Wolfsburg for sure, Kaiserslautern is as well I think. The only city I'm uncertain of at the moment would be Neuenkirchen.

[Alex_K]

I checked it - Kaiserslautern is actually smaller than Wolfsburg, as well as Neunkirchen (which I keep confusing with Neuenkirchen...). Also Ulm had exactly 3000 inhabitants less than WOB in 2003. Which means that the list is as follows:

1. Haching
2. Homburg
3. Neunkirchen
4. K'lautern
5. Ulm
6. Wolfsburg

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

D'Alessandro, as other posters have mentioned, is very good at times, but can be absolutely invisible other times. In other words, he is very inconsistent. There is not a lot of "in between" with him. He's either very good or pretty bad. He is obviously a very talented player. But I disagree with what Eisenfuss said about him being the "best" player on Wolfsburg. He may be the most talented, the most highly regarded, the player with the most potential, but he is not the "best" player on the team given his wholly inconsistent performances. Another issue with D'Alessandro is that he has missed a lot of time because of injuries and Argentine National Team commitments (including the Olympics last season). Perhaps that has added to his inconsistency. BTW, in response to your question about whether D'Alessandro is happy at Wolfsburg, the answer is no. During the off season, he requested to be transferred (Atletico Madrid was the team everyone was talking about), but the coach and GM (Fach and Strunz) made a special trip to Argentina and convinced him to stay with the club this season.


Wolfsburg developed an Argentine connection through its former management (particularly Peter Pander), but not what Strunz is in charge, my guess is that the emphasis on South American players will decrease.

So while Wolfsburg is not a premier destination, there are maybe only 6 or 8 clubs in all of Germany which offer better opportunities (Bayern, Bremen, Schalke, Hamburg, Hertha, Leverkusen, maybe Stuttgart, maybe the financially troubled Dortmund).

D´Allesandro is the top player of Wolfsburg,
otherwise the team management hadn´t travelled to Argentine.
I didn´t say, that other players like U21 national player Hanke,
the Argentines and some others are not important.
They show also sometimes good performances, but D´Allesandro
plays a very good season. The reason, why so many people are unhappy with him,
is IMO, that they espect micracles from him, because of his high slasry.

I would be happy, if he joins Werder Bremen,
because what D´Allesandro needs is a good coach.
I am sure, Schaaf can handle him and make him use his potential.
Furthermore he would have here more key players around him
and would have less pressure.
But paying his high salary is another point, he earns much money in WOB,
perhaps that´s the reason, why so many people critizise him.

That D´Allesandro can play football is clear for me,
look at some of the matches at Argentine NT.
That he can´t show this performance at his club
can be called the Rosicky syndrom. ;)

To the South American conenction:
The connection is made by VW,
who established coorporations with some Argentine club,
who they support with money and can buy players under market value.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

I checked it - Kaiserslautern is actually smaller than Wolfsburg, as well as Neunkirchen (which I keep confusing with Neuenkirchen...). Also Ulm had exactly 3000 inhabitants less than WOB in 2003. Which means that the list is as follows:

1. Haching
2. Homburg
3. Neunkirchen
4. K'lautern
5. Ulm
6. Wolfsburg

Well, at Kaiserslautern there the whole region supports the club.
This fact has to do with history of the club.
At lower saxony there Hannover and Braunschweig are the famous clubs
with many supporters,
that´s why Wolfsburg have a problem with getting people from the region to the stadium.
They are a a planned club as well as Wolfsburg is a planned city.
VW was the reason, why the city exists and VW is also the reson,
why the club plays Bundesliga.

D´Allesandro should get out of it and go to a real club, like Bremen. ;)

[in da soup]

thank you very much for your answers. it is great to hear from a wolfsburg fan and also from a bremen fan who would be happy to have d'alessandro at his club.

at the end of the day, wolfsburg may not fulfil d'alessandro's long-term ambitions, but he was content enough to stay with them for at least another year, and that says something positive for wolfsburg.

i imagine it is harder for argentines to adjust to the football in england and germany for example, than it is for them in spain and italy, which is much more like home. demichelis has said that it took him two years of inconsistent displays before he adjusted to german football.

it was also v interesting to hear of the other argentines at wolfsburg and how they are doing, but i am not surprised to hear that d'alessandro is the most talented.

perhaps he would be better motivated at a bigger club, especially if he is the arrogant type, as was suggested by 96Squig. he would be v motivated if he made the world cup squad, and i believe, in terms of ability, he is in the top 23 argentine players.

here's a question...

if d'alessandro was german, would you want him in the german squad?

[The Old Lady Hertha]

if d'alessandro was german, would you want him in the german squad?

Hmmm...tough question. I suppose so, we do need a playmaker, and D'Alessandro fits the bill.

But this is pure hypotheticals. I'd like to see Henry on our team too. ;)