Tottenham v West Ham 1pm 20/11/05

[claret50]

Whadaya reckon folks? I'm really looking forward to seeing this game, (it's live on tele down here in NZ) the Spudz have got a good team, but so have we, I can't be arsed to go through the stats to read up about past performances between the two clubs, but this should be one hell of a game, obviously I'd love to see us get 3 points, but I'll also be happy with just a draw, roll on Sunday.
UP THE HAMMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[west_ham]

If we get 3 points from this Claret then I shall recall all previous doubts about your thread starting powers. :)

[TheMobyDick]

Here is an interesting article C&P from the Guardian.Hope it bodes well for Sunday.
Especially the observations regarding their midfield.lets hope they keep up the excellent service.

What's up with Jermain Defoe?
After scoring 44 times during the last two seasons, Jermain Defoe has gone horribly off the boil. Georgina Turner investigates

Georgina Turner
Friday November 18, 2005

Guardian Unlimited

When Jermain Defoe arrived in January 2004, the excitement at Tottenham was palpable. The up-and-coming England striker had fired in 15 goals for West Ham before a New Year drunk had hit the pavement: one of football's hottest properties had chosen White Hart Lane. He scored his first seven goals for Spurs in the remainder of that campaign, before adding another 22 last season.
But that enthusiasm has dulled to a questioning hush as Defoe has managed just three goals more than a quarter of the way into the season - even the creaking limbs of Teddy Sheringham have mustered four, and he's had two-and-a-half games less to do it in.

Of course, goals have been a commodity in short supply for Tottenham this season: they've failed to score in five of their 13 games and managed only one in another four. But Defoe has felt the drought more than most - he averages a goal every 345 minutes, which compares unfavourably to Robbie Keane, whose ratio is one every 201 minutes.

Last season, Defoe could also be relied upon to gallop to Spurs' rescue - more than half of his goals directly affected the outcome of the game. Now the cavalry appears cartwheeling clumsily on the horizon with 15 minutes left on the clock in the form of Keane, who has saved Tottenham twice this season.

It has failed to get the Irishman anywhere near the starting line-up, and with an England manager picking strikers from memory, Defoe's World Cup chances are yet to be hit either. But each game he goes without scoring (five and counting), the question is getting louder: what's up with Defoe?

Martin Jol has questioned the service his strikers are receiving, but he's hiding behind excuses. Four central (and largely defensive-minded) midfielders strung from one touchline to the other might not make for a haven of creativity in the middle, but their latest West Ham import Michael Carrick is one of the finest passers of the ball in the Premiership. Edgar Davids is quick to scamper forward and cause trouble in the final third, and though Spurs lack width while Aaron Lennon and Wayne Routledge are injured, full-backs Young-Pyo Lee and Paul Stalteri regularly push forward.

A better explanation is that Defoe lacks positional sense: when he is not offside (as he has been 19 times already this season - more than anyone else in the Premiership - granted, he was unlucky against Bolton), he is too deep, or too wide. When Spurs' counter-attacking has been ponderous, when their midfield left narrow by injury, this is almost understandable, but he is at his best staying forward and working the central channels. That's when his dinks and spins are most lethal, turning centre-backs inside out to leave only a quaking keeper between him and the goal. When he drops deep he invariably leaves only Mido to aim at in a sea of defenders, and when he pulls wide he leaves himself far too much to do - he is not Thierry Henry. And he doesn't need to be: goals from Mido, Ledley King and Jermaine Jenas all came from crosses. Had he been wriggling and writhing in the box, who knows how many more he might have chalked up?

Doubt has also hung like a fog around Defoe's relationship with Mido, and not without cause. They linked up on occasion during pre- and early season to good effect, but they lack the telepathic understanding Defoe seemed to enjoy with Fredi Kanoute, sold to Sevilla for £4.5m as the transfer window closed. Some quarters have pinned the blame on Mido. According to Jol's 'big man-small man' philosophy, the big man is there to allow long, high balls to bounce off his skull and onto the tip of the small man's toe - and if that's the case he's got the wrong man.

Mido is a decent provider but he's not shy of taking his own chances, and he is as guilty of floating wide as Defoe. Whether it is a lack of trust or just a breakdown in communication, there have been times when both players have moved out to the flanks, leaving an empty penalty box. That said, Mido formed a productive partnership with Keane during Spurs' summer Peace Cup success, so while he might not get his head to hoofed clearances as often as he's contractually obliged to, the blame may lie a little closer to home for Defoe.

It wouldn't be right to suggest a player as young as the 23-year-old Defoe could have passed his sell-by date, but there is something to suggest that the fizz has gone out of the toast of Tottenham this season. Not only has he failed to score more than journeymen like Geoff Horsfield, but he's probably created fewer chances, too.

He worried - really worried - Edwin van der Sar and Jens Lehmann only once each during Spurs' games against Manchester United and Arsenal, and both shots came from outside the area. In that dreadful defeat to Grimsby, a game in which Defoe might previously have been relied upon to emerge a hero, one of the best chances of the game came from the out-of-favour Andy Reid. Defoe put his head to a fantastic Stalteri cross just yards out - and put it wide. While he's so often being caught one step ahead of the defence, his usually buzzing football brain seems a step behind.

For all this, there is no doubting Defoe's credentials; but if this blip is to avoid becoming a permanent blight, something has got to give. His awareness is going to have to improve for a start. If he could turn even half of those offside runs into breaks, the chances are he'd have a handful more goals to his name and an increasingly weighty monkey off his back.

But losing his unquestioned place in the starting line-up will surely be the best medicine. Tottenham fans aren't calling for Keane to be given his chance just to keep him from fleeing for Everton when the January arrives: they know how well swapping him and Defoe so regularly last season worked. They know Keane demonstrates the fight that Defoe, at times, lacks.

And they suspect that were Defoe to taste some uncertainty on a Saturday morning, or to have to watch Keane making the most of his 60 minutes every other week, those devastating darts into dithering defences might return. Especially if he's been benched against the east London team he'll want so desperately to impress on Sunday

[norwaytips]

Looking forward to this one. On the TV live here, so I'll be in the pub on Sunday having a glass of coke.......Well, you all know I never drink alcohol. :rolleyes:

I like the banter for this one. All the gooners are hammers for the day and the Spuds fans will get some stick if we can steal it. Relying on you Claret mate, don't let us down with this one.
C'MON YOU 'AMMERS :)

[claret50]

Nicked from the Sun, tomorrows squad,
squad (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2005530208,00.html) C'MON YOU IRONS!!!!!!!!!!!

[Batcave Brigade]

So who plays for Reo? Dailly? Fletcher? or move Yossi to middle and play either Bellion or Aliadiere on the right?

[claret50]

Yossi in the middle hopefully.

[ausspur]

Cant wait for Sunday night. This will be great entertainment. I almost went out and bought a bigger screen tele but the treasurer wouldnt allow it. I expect my boys to win by the odd goal after Defore gets fould in the box (penalty box that is!). Spurs to win: 1-0 or 2-1.

[OrlandoSPUR]

...I also love this derby, well at the Lane anyway. Hope both sets of supporters keep a lid on the usual crap. I am sure having the game at 1pm will keep that to a minimal, unless your lads get there at 8am and start smashing up pubs :D

All joking asides I am looking forward to some neat passing and a hectic games, first time I've seen West Ham for a couple of seasons and know very little about the qualities of your squad, interested to see Yossi play, as we had been linked w/the fella in the past. Of course the extra spice of having ex-hammers and ex-Spurs sprinkled in each others line ups should give the game a bit more energy.

Carroll is out right? has Hislop had the gloves this season?

I also fully expect a Tottenham win, but as NOH mentioned on our forum it is a pivitol game, and can define our chances to actually progress or start the usual rumblings of how Tottenham flatters to decieve (sp). And for WHU it will be a massive boost and should set you up well for the xmas period.

Heres to a good game, I don't think this will end goaless or in a draw.

[claret50]

"Carroll is out right? has Hislop had the gloves this season?"

Ever since Carroll injured his ankle, the games live here at 2am Monday morning, so I'll be taping it.
UP THE HAMMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheNewOrleansHammer]

UP THE HAMMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets leap frog the 'YIDO'S'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hammer_scout51]

The one constant in all the years i went to the Lane. We didn't often win the game but the hooligan element always seemed to win the fight. No i never got involved and was never a hooligan.


I hope we take it to them and do ourselves justice. A lot of our boys will be out to prove something. It hopefully will be the springboard for a good performance.

With the money Spurs have spent the chairman admits they must qualify for Europe or start selling the odd player. Anything we get would be a massive bonus.

UP THE HAMMERS

[TheresaWHUFC]

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Teddy offside!!!! Noble's goal disallowed :eek:

Come on you Irons, we're getting back into this game, let's get one before
h-t.

[TheresaWHUFC]

Bit lonely here, all you lucky buggers are watching the game i s'pose...

Just gonna have to make enough noise for all of us

[west_ham]

I didn't post T cos I thought I was the only one here... :o

Are you not watching the game online?

Teddy stood up to Davids earlier which was worth seeing.

[ballard45]

I'm watching the game live here in Oz. It.s just gone midnight. Not being televised in UK T?

Where was Shaka for the goal? Very indecisive effort from him. I think we are looking good enough to get back in it but we need to keep the ball out wide coz Spurs are having trouble with us when we do.

Also Harewood. I like him but wonder how long he can be kept in the side when he doesn't score and misses good opportunities!!

[TheresaWHUFC]

Just listening to Essex Radio Chris, had to laugh at Teddy giving it handbags with Davids :D

Still reckon we can get something out of this, Mido's a worry though...

[west_ham]

I didn't think the goal was Shaka's fault. Two defenders were not marking Mido tight enough. Once he has headed it there is nothing Shaka can do.

It's disappointing as we have played well at times and we are threatening there goal. We just need to make sure we get the next goal and not them.

Also Ethers has been heavily tackled a few times. I know he goes down easily sometimes but they seem to be targetting him again.

[west_ham]

Ethers just called offside when he was level. I hope this is not a sign of things to come in this game.

[TheresaWHUFC]

I'm watching the game live here in Oz. It.s just gone midnight. Not being televised in UK T?

Not officially, there'll be a few pubs showing it on the quiet tho' Ballard ;)


Sounds like a great save by Robinson from Teddy,

Corner, COME ON YOU IRONSSSSSSSSS