NHL team has deep $(can) problems

[Red Card]

I don't follow the NHL. I thought they were doing OK considering that they have a big TV rights contract. Then I read this about the Ottawa team not able to meet their payroll.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=565&ncid=755&e=4&u=/ap/20030101/ap_on_sp_ho_ne/hkn_senators_refinancing

[Sachin]

Not to be rude, but what exactly does this have to do with American soccer?

Sachin

[Revolt]

Sounds pretty bad

http://espn.go.com/nhl/news/2003/0101/1485369.html

[Tea Men Tom]

There was also a story within the past couple of weeks that the Buffalo Sabres are in danger of being folded if a buyer can't be found.

[Paul Schmidt]

The biggest creditor for the Senators is the Corel Centre. Rod Bryden owns the Corel Centre. Centre Corel makes more money than the Senators lose (barely, to be sure- there is something of a problem here, it's just greatly exaggerated).

It is highly in Rod Bryden's interest to show the loss, however. He might get tax concessions from Kanata (it's an iffier proposition than it is stateside, but Calgary and Edmonton get some breaks from Alberta). He shows the loss as a reason to nail the players to a possible pay cut come 2004.

The ownership situation was, in effect, a weird attempt to sell tax writeoffs. A recent court decision allows Canadian teams to write off depreciation of player contracts, and Bryden was simply selling "shares" of this writeoff. It fails, Bryden can try another money-grab scheme.

BTW, Buffalo is definitely a problem, but bankruptcy will NOT cause a folding. Mark Hamister will whine and cry about public subsidies, delaying his willingness to buy the team... until the bankruptcy court clears some debts and/or makes the team available at pennies on the dollar. That's when the team will be bought, and they'll be even more likely to remain in Buffalo... barring Paul Allen coming in and paying appallingly market prices.

[Andy_B]

Not to be rude, but what exactly does this have to do with American soccer?

Since the day the B&M board was first launched (a bit before your time), the board has NEVER been limited to soccer, much less to American soccer.

The business side of other sports are usually an interesting and sometimes direct barometer of soccer.

To fully understand and discuss soccer in business terms, one must be up on the issues of the industry (in this case sports business). That is why you will find WNBA, Arena Football, College Football and NHL threads all on the first page of B&M. I have no idea why this would be surprise to anyone who has been her before.

Andy

[billf]

The NHL TV deal is a sham. They got $650 million over a number of years and after the deal was signed I read that it came to about $5 million per year per team. At the rate the salaries were going at that time, that amounted to one second tier star or two decent players on a $25-$50 million payroll.

Not only is the deal a sham in terms of what the teams actually pocket, but the deal itself turned out to be dramatically overvalued. I think the potential of NHL players in the Olympics was overestimated as one tournament was played in Japan late at night and was broadcast by a mouse competitor. ESPN and ABC have cut the schedule every year and there is no way they've made money from the deal. They even cut the NHL2Nite show from almost daily to a couple nights a week at most.

What this has to do with soccer is simple. While the NHL is long established as a league, this is what happens when a successful niche sport grows way too fast on the coattails of some modest successes. I think it tells MLS's operators to continue to grow it slow. This also may be why Disney won't shell out dollars for MLS despite the fact that some ESPN2 MLS ratings are comparable to those of MLS. Despite the NHLs TV deal, most MLS and the NHL are deeply dependant on gate receipts for revenue. Most teams can't turn a profit without making the playoffs. Three or four home playoff games can be the the difference between a modest profit and a steep loss, desipte control of local arena and parking revenues.

I love hockey, but I think the mouse feels stuck with a $650 million white elephant and that the league may face some very serious problems come the new CBA in 2004 and the next TV deal. I can't see the mouse paying $650 million for the NHL again now that they have the NBA, and I think the labor negotiations will be contentious. It's either deep salary cuts across the board, or a lot of lost jobs because a number of markets cans support the NHL as it now exists.

[falcon6]

There was also an article in the Newark Star Ledger about a month ago on how the NJ Devils will lose 50 million dollars this year. They have tried to get credit but have been denied. The large loss was due to high salarys and operating costs which accounted for about 20 million of the loss with the other 30 coming from what the owners owe the former owner this year in payments from the sale of the franchise.

[Revolt]

Interesting topic to discuss the NHL's CBA expiration next year. Last time, 2/3 of the season was wiped out. Things could be much worse this time, because the owners will insist that the players make some significant give-backs.

Betteman has already thrown down the gaunlet in terms of a work stoppage. Should be ugly and interesting to see it unfold (or unravel).

How could this affect MLS? I don't think its necessarily positive at all (fans may wish a pox on the houses of all sports franchises), but I could see some benefit to cities where MLS and NHL are the main sports games in town - Columbus, San Jose come to mind.

[GoHawks4]

As far as I heard, this was just a temporary thing that would last a few days becuase of a slow bank. That's what they said on FSR last night.

[copaantl98]

Originally posted by Sachin
Not to be rude, but what exactly does this have to do with American soccer?

Sachin

Well it is Business and Media. Plus, it can affect soccer coverage.

[Red Card]

NHL and NBA have a problem they don't even know about. It is cable TV competition from the Premiership via FSW. While MLS is a summer sport, the Premiership goes head to head with the NHL-NBA seasons.

[Benedict XVI]

Originally posted by Red Card
NHL and NBA have a problem they don't even know about. It is cable TV competition from the Premiership via FSW. While MLS is a summer sport, the Premiership goes head to head with the NHL-NBA seasons. i am sure that's crushing the Ottawa Senators.

[Red Card]

Originally posted by Vicar
i am sure that's crushing the Ottawa Senators.

Sorry that I implied it is an immediate problem, which it is not. I'm meant a problem down the road when the Premiership gets a foothold here.

I hear non-soccer people in my age group (senior) talk about it. I see its highlights on espn. It definitely is getting a foothold.

[FunGuy]

I think ottawa's problem are partly related to the big loses suffered by Corel, they were once i think canada's biggest software company now they are in financial trouble.

[FunGuy]

nevermind i was thinking of Nortel

[billf]

Originally posted by Red Card
NHL and NBA have a problem they don't even know about. It is cable TV competition from the Premiership via FSW. While MLS is a summer sport, the Premiership goes head to head with the NHL-NBA seasons.

I don't think that's an issue at all. First, very few people, relatively speaking, have FSW. Second, fewer care about soccer in general and the EPL in particular. Third, the games are at different points in the day. Almost every EPL game is over before the first NHL or NBA game starts. If the American public takes a shine to the EPL, it can still have it's own sports. As far as the delayed or replayed games, the average fan would prefer to see live games I'm sure. Fourth, there is no local rooting interest. I love the EPL, but I grew up watching the Flyers. I don't have that attachment to the EPL, the average NHL or NBA fan has even less of a connection to teams 5000 miles away than someone like me that at least grew up playing soccer. Fifth, this is like saying that the NFL being broadcast on SkySports will affect crowds or ratings for the EPL and the Nationwide in England. It's not gonna happen. Lastly, we are freaks to an extent in this country beacuse we follow leagues and teams across an ocean and get up in the middle of the night to watch the world cup of a sport most of our friends and neighbors know nothing about. Before we worry about the EPL drawing viewers from the NBA and NHL, let's get MLS to a point where it's taken seriously.

By the logic in the above, I'd say cheerleading competitions, lumberjack competitions, and the world's strongest man will have a more adverse affect on NHL and NBA ratings.

[luvdagame]

ottawa (nhl) could not make their last payroll. can you imagine the sports headlines if it was an mls team? these boards would blow up!! there would be doom and gloom all around.

[monster]

Threads merged

[luvdagame]

sorry, didn't know there was another thread. my bad. (slap to the side of head).