HSG: A Day Late and a Dollar Short

[Northside Rovers]

Or put another way - Can HSG do anything right?

Yes - I know questioning Lamar Hunt and HSG is herecy for some - but curiously not for fans of teams he owns. Is he well intentioned? Yes. I am sure he is. Does HSG seem to be staffed by incompetent boneheads or is it maybe that they're really smart people who have no idea what they are doing and should be working elsewhere? Probably.

Yes Lamar and HSG spearheaded efforts and built two stadiums for their 3 teams. And if stadiums were championships they would have one more stadium than championship. But they blew their most recent stadium opening pretty badly so they muffed that chance pretty badly.

HSG in 23 owner / team years has won one MLS Cup (KC in 2000). A team so dour that they will never lose their reputation for bunkering. But they won a cup.

HSG in 23 owner / team years has two US Open Cups (one for KC and one for Columbus) and 2 Supporters Shields (one for KC and one for Columbus) I am going from memory here so don't crucify me if I missed one.

The question is often asked - what does HSG prioritize first: Selling tickets (cash) or winning? It sure ain't winning. It must also be noted that in the 2006 "Everyone's Invited" MLS playoffs - the two teams who didn't make it in the East, they were HSG teams.

So maybe they are good at selling tickets. Maybe not.

HSG teams finished Last, next to last and ninth in average attendance this season. True - HSG all but folded KC in 2005 and hung them out to dry. Nice move by the way. But KC was never lighting up the ticket counters. Columbus has been steadily declining over the last few years because of a moronic front office and a boring team on the field.

So what do we know:
- HSG doesn't do a good job at selling tickets
- Their teams don't win a lot of championships
- Their game day presentations resemble saturday morning cartoons
- Their front offices often make questionable decisions and alienate fans
- And they field some pretty poor and boring teams.

Which begs the questions:

Can Hitchcock break the cycle? God I hope so. But I am not confident.

Why is John Wagner still employed? No idea.

But most importantly - will Carlos Ruiz be re-signed? Coach Clarke may want him back - but I don't think anyone at HSG cares much either way. Do you think HSG gets this one right? I don't.

[Pegasus]

HSG teams are also the ones who try and appeal to the suburban fans. While DC, Chicago, LA and now SLC appeal to more rowdy fans HSG keeps believing in the old tried and failed model of parents and kids who will grow up and then take their kids. Did anyone else dig the game at DC where they are down 4-0 but the whole far side is rocking and smoke bombs are smoking and it is not at all an HSG environment yet the place was packed and money was made.

[Guatefc]

HSG teams are also the ones who try and appeal to the suburban fans. While DC, Chicago, LA and now SLC appeal to more rowdy fans HSG keeps believing in the old tried and failed model of parents and kids who will grow up and then take their kids. Did anyone else dig the game at DC where they are down 4-0 but the whole far side is rocking and smoke bombs are smoking and it is not at all an HSG environment yet the place was packed and money was made.

yes but bara brava is a bunch of drunk drunkies who don't five a eff about some kids and their moms, dc is the closet place to get a true euro/south american soccer expirence i was sitting one section to the left of them, it was great.

inferno need to step it up, make it your second job to make inferno big and there fan bace
when i see/hear PHP on tv its a bunch of 12 yr old girls screaming when Fc gets close to the goal Mouth sounds like a Wusa game, but at dc , there hot drunk women, and a rowdy support group with no remorse to children.if you can appeal to the drinking 21 and up crowd you'll get a nice enviroment supportiing your team. the only problem is most people in ol texas are into american football, and 12 yr old girls are your only mainstream fans and thier parents an your 200 hardore footballers, you'll never get close to DC.

[boomersooner027]

inferno need to step it up, make it your second job to make inferno big and there fan bace
when i see/hear PHP on tv its a bunch of 12 yr old girls screaming when Fc gets close to the goal Mouth sounds like a Wusa game, but at dc , there hot drunk women, and a rowdy support group with no remorse to children.if you can appeal to the drinking 21 and up crowd you'll get a nice enviroment supportiing your team. the only problem is most people in ol texas are into american football, and 12 yr old girls are your only mainstream fans and thier parents an your 200 hardore footballers, you'll never get close to DC.


ok now usually I'm just indifferent to the Ruiz Guatemala people on here, but you crossed the line so here goes. ******** you, you've never been to php, you've never been to a game with the inferno. I don't take kindly to people who have never even been to an FCD game trying to tell us what to do. Everyone that has actually been to the game knows that it sounds 10x as loud at the game as it does on tv. It's easy for someone who doesn't have to deal with the legal/front office crap thats involved with pryo and sh!t like that to tell everyone else how to do things, but until you're a part of an active supporters group you have 0 credibility and have no room to tell any of us how to do things.

[Guatefc]

ok now usually I'm just indifferent to the Ruiz Guatemala people on here, but you crossed the line so here goes. ******** you, you've never been to php, you've never been to a game with the inferno. I don't take kindly to people who have never even been to an FCD game trying to tell us what to do. Everyone that has actually been to the game knows that it sounds 10x as loud at the game as it does on tv. It's easy for someone who doesn't have to deal with the legal/front office crap thats involved with pryo and sh!t like that to tell everyone else how to do things, but until you're a part of an active supporters group you have 0 credibility and have no room to tell any of us how to do things.

hhehehe jus comparing , i like Fc dallas, but DC crowd is jus a little bit better, even on tv dc is louder than fc.

it is fair to say that in dc there is more soccer harcores than fc though.

so chill quick draw mcgraw
;)

i was part one of the best Ultras in central america, municipal with a little bit more cred than inferno, at least we have smoke bombs

don't get me wrong i like your dinosaur
:)

[burning247]

ok now usually I'm just indifferent to the Ruiz Guatemala people on here, but you crossed the line so here goes. ******** you, you've never been to php, you've never been to a game with the inferno. I don't take kindly to people who have never even been to an FCD game trying to tell us what to do. Everyone that has actually been to the game knows that it sounds 10x as loud at the game as it does on tv. It's easy for someone who doesn't have to deal with the legal/front office crap thats involved with pryo and sh!t like that to tell everyone else how to do things, but until you're a part of an active supporters group you have 0 credibility and have no room to tell any of us how to do things.

well as much as you want to tell him to ******** off, he is right and I don't think he was meaning to be too judgemental.

[oman]

boomer, its louder than he makes it seem but it is still no where near loud enough.

This is a suburban, kind of boring crowd. The fun fans are really far and few in between.

I'd like to see the inferno get bigger and the fans get louder and rowdier but the intial post does make some sense. This is a suburban stadium, filled with people who want to get home and to bed right after the game.

FC games will get fun despite where the stadium was build and despite who it seems they are trying to market to.

That being said, I am prepared to be proved wrong during our sophomore season.

I thought one of the top games in terms of ambiance this year was the chivas game. That says alot.

I think PHP is in a perfect location because if the league takes off, Dallas might get a team in 10 years And it will be dirty and grungy and not very family and it will HATE FC!!!!!

[texgator]

It has very little to do with where the stadium is. The games at the Cotton Bowl weren't any louder than the games at PHP. In fact, I'd say the games at PHP have a better atmosphere than those in the last few seasons of the CB.

[burning247]

It has very little to do with where the stadium is. The games at the Cotton Bowl weren't any louder than the games at PHP. In fact, I'd say the games at PHP have a better atmosphere than those in the last few seasons of the CB.


oh no doubt, but if you ever saw a game on the "festive side" in 2002 or before you'll miss the old days

[texgator]

oh no doubt, but if you ever saw a game on the "festive side" in 2002 or before you'll miss the old days
My first game was 4th of July 2002......and, honestly, not all that much better. Sure, better than the last two seasons at the CB....but really, not a significant difference at all. You are fooling yourselves if you think location alone makes a big difference.

[Rocket]

HSG in 23 owner / team years has won one MLS Cup (KC in 2000). A team so dour that they will never lose their reputation for bunkering. But they won a cup.

Do you know how that compares to AEG, and some of the other investor/operators who've brought home the Cup?

[Northside Rovers]

Do you know how that compares to AEG, and some of the other investor/operators who've brought home the Cup?

Good question. The DC ownership has gone back and forth so I don't know who gets credit for their 96, 97, 99 and 04 Cups.

My best guess for AEG: 98 Fire / 02 Galaxy / 03 Quakes / 04 United.

Not sure who owned the Quakes in 2001. Or how many team years AEG is on the books for.

My main point still is that HSG for all their stadium efforts doesn't put winning teams together very well, they don't sell tickets very well and they can make some damn dumb decisions.

Their watered down, kiddy, boring as milquetoast approach to soccer has not worked. EVER. Its the same approach as the other NFL owner Robert Kraft used in New England - and their attendance is at the bottom of the league now. They finished 10th this season in attendance - but at least his teams are playing well even if no one goes to the games. Kraft's Soccer Smiles and negelctful approach gutted the teams fan base.

It is this same mis-guided belief / assumption that kids drive the household decisions. Just becuase their kids may play the game doesn't mean their parents are going to spend $60 and kill 4 hours of their weekend to take them to a game or like it - especially after driving them to their games all day.

If you want to sell group tickets to youth soccer fine - but don't turn the stadium into an f-ing carnival of stuffed animals and cotton candy. The kids aren't paying attention anyway. these are the same kids who have fun with an empty cardboard box. Cater to the 18 - 44 year old males. They make the decisions regarding sports dollars. Eveyrting else the wife drives - but this is one thing the guy controls.

The DC and Chicago crowds kick our ass every year in energy and size and HSG is just too stupid to try and emulate their approach. So instead we get small crowds and weak teams while they spend valuable time spinning their wheels wondering why 12 year olds don't come to the game more - while Mexican teams continute to eat our lunch and dwarf our attendances even in our own stadium.

Dumbasses. I hope Hitchcock figures it out because now I know how Man U fans feel when a guy buys the team and has no idea what to do with it.

[FC Dallas]

My best guess for AEG: 98 Fire / 02 Galaxy / 03 Quakes / 04 United.

Not sure who owned the Quakes in 2001. Or how many team years AEG is on the books for.

The AEG consistency is a critical reality.

What do they do differently than HSG? Does an entertainment company like AEG require flexible responsiveness to their markets in order to be successful? Is HSG flexible in their exchanges?

Dumbasses. I hope Hitchcock figures it out because now I know how Man U fans feel when a guy buys the team and has no idea what to do with it.
Does AEG have people who report how the players and coaches *feel* in order to keep in sync with critical dynamics? Does HSG have someone at the top who only wants linear numbers and doesn't *feel* feelings/emotions are critical for success? Why did Lamar *feel* it necessary to go door-to-door in KC? Was he filling a void in his organization that has persistently failed in emotionally charged strategies like The Beautiful Game?

.

[ElJefe]

well as much as you want to tell him to ******** off, he is right and I don't think he was meaning to be too judgemental.
To be honest, I was watching a bit of the TiVo recording of the Colorado playoff game and I think that our crowd gets a bit of a bad rap.

They were certainly more in tune to what was happening on the pitch than most MLS crowds I've seen. Every time Nkong got the ball after his time on the grass, the crowd booed him lustily. When a Hoops player made a good play, even if it didn't result in a goal or a near-goal, the crowd showed their appreciation.

A lot of this "who has better crowds" nonsense is based on groupthink and raw numbers.

[AndyMead]

Let's not forget that HSG owned teams have won 6 of 9 MLS Team Fair Play Awards! (3 each to KC and Columbus)

Woohoo!

[burning247]

To be honest, I was watching a bit of the TiVo recording of the Colorado playoff game and I think that our crowd gets a bit of a bad rap.

They were certainly more in tune to what was happening on the pitch than most MLS crowds I've seen. Every time Nkong got the ball after his time on the grass, the crowd booed him lustily. When a Hoops player made a good play, even if it didn't result in a goal or a near-goal, the crowd showed their appreciation.

A lot of this "who has better crowds" nonsense is based on groupthink and raw numbers.

you're right, I made it a point to look at the crowd while bad sh!t was going down (Nkong's BS and Cunny's goal) and realized that they were in fact into it and passionate. I mean I hate to get excited about people throwing sh!t because its wrong but one guy in the rich section did and I got excited because it means THEY CARE! I'm shocked!

[crewcrazy17]

A lot of people on the Columbus boards, including myself, think that HSG has started to turn things around with the hiring of Mark McCullers. He has acknowledged his lack of soccer history but also stated he has learned a lot since becoming GM. The hiring of someone fresh to the organization in Sigi Schmid has also been received as a change for the better in a stagnating organization.
Yes the bread and butter of the Columbus fanbase is still the soccer mom and family and that does not always bring the most knowledgeable or excited atmosphere to the stadium. However, its my understanding that the relationship between the hardcore supporters and the FO is better than it has been in years which should lead to a stronger supporters section.
Hopefully HSG will give McCullers a certain amount of autonomy to run the club as he sees fit.

[boomersooner027]

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh, but I really dont like it when people that have never even been to a game try to tell the Inferno what to do. Anyways, I thought the crowd on saturday was the best this season in terms of being into the game. When Cunningham scored and taunted the east side, I saw at least 10 or 15 people get up and start gesturing at Cunningham, and the crowd went pretty ape********** when Nkong got kicked out. One more thing, when we were pushing to tie the game and into overtime the whole crowd would stand up anytime we made an offensive push. That stuff just doesn't show up on tv, and that's one of the reasons I don't like people who haven't ever been to a game comment on stuff they've seen on tv.

[FC Dallas]

Hopefully HSG will give McCullers a certain amount of autonomy to run the club as he sees fit.
Thanks for this.

Please let us know if McCullers is empowered with the flexibility of tools to succeed. It has been hypothesized that Hitchcock would only come here if he successfully negotiated a position of power to bring in his preferential dynamic staff. With more information; we can measure if HSG is becoming more flexible or not.

[Pegasus]

Why is anyone surprised that playoff games have the best crowds (not the same as the largest)? Since no group or corporate sales are involved only fans who want to be there and purchase their own tickets show up. These folks understand the importance and understand the game.