Riots in Paris suburbs

[sl7vk]

That France mainly brought this upon themselves. *ducks*
In the same sense, you must think that 9/11 was brought on by ourselves.

[YankBastard]

In the same sense, you must think that 9/11 was brought on by ourselves.

In many ways, yes. And if we're not careful we may have other problems because we can't control our borders.

[fishbiproduct]

fishbiproduct: How can France resolve its secualrism and openness with the traditions of a minority that really has no incentive to adpot French mores?

Perhaps what's really needed is less government involvement in the economy. Here's one look from Joel Kotkin: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007519

Sachin

Can't access your article but if it is about the "economic
factor", of course it's very important.. People can
"demand" jobs, but if none are available, well...
we're stuck anyway.
But there is inequality, which really doesn't help and
the reason why I mention affirmative action.

As for secularism/ traditions: I don't believe it is such
a problem. Wouldn't be in a "correct" situation. The ones
turning to religion are some of the younger one French-born,
who shouldn't carry this "bagage" but turn to
it because of desperation?
I'm not trying to excuse what they are doing, don't
get me wrong: they should use their brains and
realise how counter-productive this is...(rioting).
If they were better integrated in the society, in better
economical situation, this wouldn't happen. At least
I don't think so...
And this isn't a "muslim uprisal" (some try to see
it as such but it isn't), nor is it a popular uprisal.


Remember that "no veils in public schools" story?
I remember seeing polls of north-african immigrants
on this subject and they were in majority favorable to it.
They are the one who originaly came with these traditions
but had "adapted". They had been in better economical
situations, at least they had jobs and had less reasons
to reject society in general. They had benefited from
immigration.
The new generations, French-born are just struggling
and feel detached from their environment...
because they are.

Don't know if I'm making sense...I'm pretty upset
about all this, it's all very sad. The vast majority
of the north-african community is upset about this
too, they don't support these riots. They know they
are the one paying for it. Destruction happens in their
neighbourhood, their cars are being burned ( and it's
hard to just "replace" a car on a low income). Most
people in these cities are working people, tax-paying
working people, with their cars, their TV's , their PC's,
etc,. their own problems. Lot of them also own these
appartments. They also have to worry about loosing
even more because of all this mess (property prices
aren't exactly going to go up with this mess)
They really don't need/ don't want any of this.

I'm worried about a "fracture" in society, wether
it can be repaired and how long it'll take to repair...
This is also the best "recruitement campaign" for
the extreme-right ( think FN) and that's very bad.

Yeah well, I'm really sad about all this...

[Forza_Italia]

[QUOTE=RandyNA74]
a) the violence will spread to other European countries (I can see it in Belgium, Holland, and maybe Germany but not so much UK, Italy, Spain), and
[QUOTE]
bad news this one is correct the riots have spread to belguim and germany or people there are coppycating the parisian riots doesnt really matter the botton line is that this is no longer a national crisis for france it appears that this is becoming and international crisis for europe

[guignol]

[Bill O'Reilly] has got a good point for once. if that's a good point, what would a load of ignorant diatribe riddled with hackneyed untruths be?

[ZZ10]

if the French journalists knew their job and went to deep down french campagnes (e.g. Lorraine) they would notice where the real poverty is.
In those areas unlike in les banlieues (suburbs) kids do not wear Nike, Adidas and Lacoste clothes. Teenagers do not drive Mercedes and BMW cars.
Parents work hard (often more than 12 hours a day) and still manage to educate their children. We should stop finding excuses to "les jeunes" (the ridiculously politicaly correct formula to avoid saying "voyous", "racaille" or "loubards" which are the words that "les jeunes" use among themselves) just because we feel guilty for the colonialism period. I don't. I was not born when Algeria became independent 45 years ago.
France has been boasting for its so called "integration system" so much better, according to our genius politicians, than the awful UK or US "communautariste" model. We can see the brilliant result today.
France should stop teaching lessons to the rest of the world and start realizing that it is time to take lessons from the other countries around us.

PS 1 : I am French myself
PS 2 : I have never and never will vote for the FN or any other extrem-right party.

[patrickm]

what about my comment about the film "la haine"? do any of you see the similarities? these riots seem to be annual.

[patrickm]

something else to mention:

in the american muslim community, there is not, generally, the same feelings of alienation from the dominant society as is the case in europe.

[lefutur]

French players speak out about the riots


http://www2.sbs.com.au/home/index.php3?id=65214

[YankBastard]

Is there a legitimate reason why the French government hasn't called in the troops to go in and kick some as to restore order?

[Twisted Green Apple]

Sorry I cannot comment on world affairs, with so much anti- USA discord in the world these days (and having voted for a Bush 4 times!), I have adopted a strict Issolasionist policy.

I rarely even trade with my wife. However things here in the Kingdom of Twisted Green Apple are Great. By alienating everyone, we (my dog and I) have avoided alienating anyone. As of yet we are said to have no enemies (of course no allies either) and our citizen's (me and my dog) voted that indeed they are content with their government, however they did comment that perhaps appointing a ambassador to the local supermarket to convince them that my purchases should not be taxed at the sales tax rates, but on export tax rates saving me approximately 500 twizzler sticks (currency of the Kingdom of Twisted Green Apple) Conversion Rate 500 TS = 13.95 USD each trip. Oh yeah and that would be great if he could convince them that Twizzler Sticks are indeed an international currency.

Yikes! :eek: I said "He".... it's official I have now dis-enfranchised our countries only trade partner and occasional tourist... my wife.

Was only a matter of time.

[truillo]

French players speak out about the riots


http://www2.sbs.com.au/home/index.php3?id=65214

Who will employ them when they aren't educated? Go to school, stay in school, stay out of gangs. Work hard. There is always work if you're qualified. Skin color comes second to color of money to businesses. That's a fact.

[YankBastard]

Come on, Frenchies. Kick some ********* will ya!! I'm not trolling, I'm ********ing serious. Your country is burning, DO SOMETHING!!

[guignol]

Who will employ them when they aren't educated? Go to school, stay in school, stay out of gangs. Work hard. There is always work if you're qualified. Skin color comes second to color of money to businesses. That's a fact.i agree with the principle that these kids need to take school more seriously. but they have a tougher row to hoe than the rest:

- often they don't get examples or help at home; their parents are poorly educated and to make matters worse have too many kids to really bring up or control their offspring properly.

- those who are able to keep up in primary school get incredible negative peer pressure from the bad elements and it takes real courage to keep up your studies in junior high school.

- there are enough true examples of well-educated maghebin who end up in dead-end jobs to discourage the younger kids.

kids and adolescents need to dream. they need to dream, and society needs them to dream. they need to dream as long as possible.

when they're little, all the boys, black, white and brown, dream about being the next zidane. the girls want to be Lorie.

at a certain age, they all realize those dreams don't work.

the white kids start dreaming about doing math spé, going to centrale and ending up surgeon, or president of a corporation or even of the republic.

for kids from the cité, those dreams seem as daft as being zidane. and being an auto mechanic, delivery driver or factory worker, well, those are honorable jobs, but far from dreams.

i'm not on their side. i'm as angry with them as i am with sarkozy, who talks big about law and order and has precipitated us into the worst situation since 1968.

in my work, nothing infuriates me more than geniuses who find complicated solutions to simple problems. but it's even worse to think there are simple solutions to complicated problems.

[gaijin]

Is there a legitimate reason why the French government hasn't called in the troops to go in and kick some as to restore order?

More reprisals and the trouble spreading outside of the banlieues?

Besides it seems to be abating now, anyway...

Time for action now me thinks.

[patrickm]

je t'aime la france. i can't say the same for these ungrateful immigrant bastards. the french should adopt a "love it (france) or leave it" policy. send these people back to the 3rd world.

[weaponx]

C'est chaud les gars qui habitent même pas en France et qui parlent de nous :(

Fermez vos culs un peu :(

[loukas]

i am french and i live in paris surburb,my city is one of the center of the riots,i ve seen on CNN what us medias says,it's a shame,almost all they say is imaginated,be careful with that

[truillo]

in my work, nothing infuriates me more than geniuses who find complicated solutions to simple problems. but it's even worse to think there are simple solutions to complicated problems.

Answer is simple. Implementing it would be extremely difficult because no politician is courageous enough to do it. When you're on the government dole, it's like being on drugs. I know cause my family went through it as new immigrants. It's hard to resist free money even though it's quite not enough and yet enough to not let it go.

[Forza_Italia]

well aparently these curfews are working its slow but its better than nothing since apparently the riots are not as bad as before, though that mite be due to lack of cars left to be burned :sigh: