Is it a fact that Canadian teams can join MLS?

[RHMCW]

Exactly!!MLS and Canadian investors are not some charity organizations doing each other favors. This isn't a Big City Boy's U-6 rec league doing a favor to a small town nearby. This is $business$. FIFA understands that. MLS/SUM understands that. CSA understands that. MLSE understands that. Some BS posters don't. Is not about favors or some kind civic duty to America. It's professional sports business. MLS is not unique. NHL. MLB. NBA. That's just the nature of the sports economics of both of our countries.

So is the business end of things the most important to you?

[BadaBing]

Forgive me if I missed it, but has anyone realized that even if a team is formed in Canada, we are still developing American talent - MLS is a single-entity league and they would still pay the players and have to abide by the roster rules of all the teams. It merely puts them in a different geographic area. I would rather have them in a SSS in Canada than in a city that would fold in two years (read: Tampa Bay, Miami).

Just my two cents.

[RHMCW]

I always suspect the underlying fear of some people (I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with RHMCW) is that Toronto getting in would mean that their city will eventually be left out in the cold if MLS is capped at 18 teams because of the supposed FIFA policy in that regard. It's true that FIFA want no more than 34 domestic league games to create space for their international game calendar but surely that's not an issue if a league like MLS has a regional conference format rather than a single table home and away game fomat? Lamar Hunt's comments should have helped to address the understandable concern that some people have.

http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20050808&content_id=39181&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

But where the league goes in terms of expansion eventually is still something to be seen. Certainly facilities will be a key component, and at the All-Star break MLS Commissioner Don Garber said the near-term goal is to increase the size of the league to 18 teams.

"[With 18 teams] we would be a small league compared to the NFL, National Hockey League, NBA," said Hunt. "I think probably we need to grow to over a period of time somewhere near 30 to 32. Maybe the 18 is perfect for England or Germany or Spain, but I don't think it is really the real world as far as what needs to happen in this country because you will leave out, who would you leave out? Atlanta, Seattle, Houston -- you know with only 18 you are not going to be represented in a lot of markets."


To a great extent you are correct in you assertion. I am not only concerned with my city (Seattle), but other US cities as well. I do not want any US city denied entry in favor of a foreign city. I do not want a league that resembles the NFL, NHL or especially the NBA.

[RHMCW]

Forgive me if I missed it, but has anyone realized that even if a team is formed in Canada, we are still developing American talent - MLS is a single-entity league and they would still pay the players and have to abide by the roster rules of all the teams. It merely puts them in a different geographic area. I would rather have them in a SSS in Canada than in a city that would fold in two years (read: Tampa Bay, Miami).

Just my two cents.


This is short sighted unless MLS is on the verge of collapse. On the other hand my goals and those of MLS are different.

[Roehl Sybing]

To a great extent you are correct in you assertion. I am not only concerned with my city (Seattle), but other US cities as well. I do not want any US city denied entry in favor of a foreign city. I do not want a league that resembles the NFL, NHL or especially the NBA.
But MLS exists in the same economic realities as those other leagues. One (i.e. NBA) doesn't cause the other (MLS), but they are affected by the same conditions. If there is demand where it is feasible to service that demand, it would be negligent to ignore it.

Besides, no one is going to stop any league in any country from, theoretically, expanding indefinitely. If Seattle were to wave enough money around a, say, 20-team MLS, bet you a month's salary that FIFA looks the other way.

[RHMCW]

But MLS exists in the same economic realities as those other leagues. One (i.e. NBA) doesn't cause the other (MLS), but they are affected by the same conditions. If there is demand where it is feasible to service that demand, it would be negligent to ignore it.

Besides, no one is going to stop any league in any country from, theoretically, expanding indefinitely. If Seattle were to wave enough money around a, say, 20-team MLS, bet you a month's salary that FIFA looks the other way.

Again, I understand the economic realities and the goals of MLS. I just disagree with the model and structure that MLS employs. A great deal of it is subjective. I do not have the money to purchase a team or cause any change in MLS so I really have no reason to care about the business aspect. Well, except that it does well enough to survive.

[chapulincolorado]

So is the business end of things the most important to you?

Well. I am not MLSE giving X millions to MLS. I am not AEG. I am low-income guy telling ya the "why's" of this deal as opposed to talking about "favors." This is not about favors or civic duty, its business. I am not on the BoD of either USSF or MLS to tell 'em they are wrong or right. So http://www.gigfoot.net/smiley/shrug.gif .

[RHMCW]

Well. I am not MLSE giving X millions to MLS. I am not AEG. I am low-income guy telling ya the "why's" of this deal as opposed to talking about "favors." This is not about favors or civic duty, its business. I am not on the BoD of either USSF or MLS to tell 'em they are wrong or right. So http://www.gigfoot.net/smiley/shrug.gif .

I am not certain of your point. I understand the whys. As I have stated, the business aspect is not my concern.

[chapulincolorado]

I am not certain of your point. I understand the whys. As I have stated, the business aspect is not my concern.

My sole point is: I don't see the concern and I understand the businepoint for all parties concerned. I agree with RS:

But MLS exists in the same economic realities as those other leagues. One (i.e. NBA) doesn't cause the other (MLS), but they are affected by the same conditions. If there is demand where it is feasible to service that demand, it would be negligent to ignore it.

[RHMCW]

My sole point is: I don't see the concern and I understand the businepoint for all parties concerned. I agree with RS:

Who's concern do you not see?

I too understand the business standpoint, but I do not like it. Not once did I say I do not understand why MLS would do this.

[chapulincolorado]

Who's concern do you not see?


Well. You have not spelled out clearly your concerns, at least IMHO. I still don't what the concerns are.

[RHMCW]

Well. You have not spelled out clearly your concerns, at least IMHO. I still don't what the concerns are.

My concern is purely subjective. I do not want a mixed country league. I want MLS to be the US domestic league. I want Canada to have a leauge of their own, if they can manage it. Canadian cities entering the league will at some point deny American cities an opportunity to participate. It will also mean that Canada will never have a league of their own, there is no incentive.

I understand that it makes economic sense, for now at least, but I do not like results.

[Geoduck]

Can you have a professional teams based in Cananda in MLS? Yes. As long as CSA and USSF aren't against it, FIFA will not be against it. In the end, for FIFA, it is about creating a base for soccer in Canana. Based from what I have read from CSA (http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/index.asp) , they don't seem to mind.Say Toronto gets an MLS franchise, and then the current CSA leadership is replaced (voted out, coup d'etat, whatever) by an anti-MLS faction. Can the CSA then force Toronto out of MLS without any consequences?

[song219]

[QUOTE]I hate the idea of Toronto or any Canadian city getting into MLS.

Seriously... if Panama, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica, Ireland, Scotland, Liechtenstein, Malta, Bahrain, Qatar, every single African country, etc etc. ALL have a domestic soccer league... why can't Canada have one? Many of these countries have a total national population less than that of Toronto alone, and the size of their country 1/100th of Canada. You mean to tell me Canada has such a weak infrastructure that it can't even breath for one second without the U.S.?? Truly pitiful.
QUOTE]

Sorry, the Fusion aren't coming back. Pissing on Toronto won't make it happen.


I got a solution that will make everybody happy. Let Florida secede from the Union and invite Ontario to join. Well it would make me happy.

[Highland FC]

All I can say is what a bunch of myopic and xenphobic Americans some of you can be.

I mean lets get back to what this can do in the quality of play and an increase in fan base.

Even if this does help out your neighbours (And this is not a bad thing as the good book says) wouldn't it improve the overall play of soccer nationally in Concacaf in general albeit in the future. I mean throughout history a team or even an individual will be considered great not because of their own ability but the winning over good rivals and I don't think just having Mexico as rivals could cut it but having another national team to really compete against it will improve the USA team as there will be more imortant games other than the two games against Mexico

The league will have a majority of USA teams means that more players in the pool.

My 2 pence worth (0.0348926 USD) worth

[shepchews]

A few minutes ago a RSL fan was moved to write:

How is a crown with I love Mormon ********y written on it better than ******** the Rapids chants?

How is this pertinent to a discussion of why we need to keep canadiens out f the MSL??

[RealGooner]

My concern is purely subjective. I do not want a mixed country league. I want MLS to be the US domestic league.

Well, you've got a mixed league. Many Canadians wish for an all Canadian league too. But considering the precarious state of soccer in both the US and Canada, neither US nor Canadian armchair soccer purists are in a position to be choosey.

[chapulincolorado]

Say Toronto gets an MLS franchise, and then the current CSA leadership is replaced (voted out, coup d'etat, whatever) by an anti-MLS faction. Can the CSA then force Toronto out of MLS without any consequences?

A lot of things are possible. Tomorrow Darth Vader can take over USSF and determine that MLS is not anymore Div. 1, but rather MISL. Is it possible? Yes. :D

Seriously. It could be possible, but there would be a lot of consequences: MLS contracts, FIFA step in, local government and tax payers wanting MLS as part of stadium deal, etc, etc.

[USRufnex]

Fact is, the league originally invited the seven-team APSL to join MLS back in 1994. According to the article below, we could have seen MLS teams in Toronto, Vancouver and/or Montreal from the very beginning...

1994 American Professional Soccer League (APSL, aka the "A-League")
Rk Team G Att Avg. (from kenn.com)
1 Seattle Sounders 10 63,468 6,347
2 Vancouver 86ers 10 47,423 4,742
3 Colorado Foxes 10 35,395 3,540
4 Los Angeles Salsa 10 33,405 3,341
5 Montreal Impact 10 32,148 3,215
6 Ft.Lauderdale Strikers 10 17,325 1,733
7 Toronto Rockets 10 14,305 1,431
LEAGUE 70 243,469 3,478

Here's a '94 newspaper article on who/where/why...


Outdoor Soccer League Rejects MLS

10/06/1994
TULSA WORLD (FINAL HOME EDITION Edition), Page S5 of
SPORTS

NEW YORK (AP) - Owners from the outdoor soccer league
that currently exists in the United States on Wednesday rejected a chance to join the new league that says it will start next spring. American Professional Soccer League clubs decided they don't want to join Major League Soccer, the new circuit being formed by U.S. Soccer Federation head Alan Rothenberg. MLS will have a "single entity" concept in which owners will own shares in the league rather than individual franchises. The league will own all the teams and player contracts but the owners will operate the clubs. "We're still opposed to the single-entity concept," APSL commissioner Richard Groff said during a telephone news conference from his office in a Philadelphia suburb. "Our owners prefer to own their teams, players, develop their teams in their market ... be 100 percent responsible for their club.

... For the interest of soccer, we hope there can be
compromise." Mark Abbott, an MLS vice president, said from Los Angeles the APSL's rejection appeared to end the chance for them to invest in MLS. "They certainly have owners in their group that we'd be interested in," he said. "I understand they don't want to particpate under our system. We feel that is the way to go. So everybody goes their own way."

There has not been a major outdoor soccer league in the United States since the North American Soccer League folded following the 1984 season. The seven-team APSL, which includes three Canadian clubs, is considered a second-division league by the USSF. Rothenberg, who also heads MLS, has announced seven of 12 markets it intends to play in. Abbott said the remainder will be announced by early November.

[RHMCW]

Well, you've got a mixed league. Many Canadians wish for an all Canadian league too. But considering the precarious state of soccer in both the US and Canada, neither US nor Canadian armchair soccer purists are in a position to be choosey.

Are you saying that without Canadian support MLS is doomed?