Interesting Article from Cleveland PD [Archive]

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ClevelandMark

31 Oct 2005, 10:35 AM

Joe Stoker

01 Nov 2005, 12:01 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1130754892323490.xml&coll=2

This article on green space around the CVNP specifically references Scott Wolstein's continued efforts to bring a MLS team to the area. Now that the Force is on permanent? hiatus, can someone please tell me what is going on with professional soccer in Cleveland? :confused:

Thanks for sharing, Mark.

Evidently the Wolstein contingent is still in the running, since Garber keeps including "Cleveland" amongst the alleged contenders. Of course, I well recall how often Phil Woosnam included "Cleveland" among NASL possibles from for about ten years with nothing becoming of it... but that's another story or two.

What's missing with the current Cleveland situation is IMO a lack of the genuine. No warmth. There is little pulse among the existing soccer community and/or fandom as currently exists in, say, Tulsa/OC, or Detroit regarding MLS expansion. And Scott Wolstein or Garafolo are hardly rallying public support, as what's occurring in Milwaukee. Young Wolstein was all over local TV a week ago about another downtown development plan. Not a word was mentioned about soccer. Public perception seems to be that the trial balloon went flat and is now history. I suppose the Wolstein interest in MLS mirrors that of other largely silent groups the MLS touch base with from time to time in places like St. Louis.

Of course, the Cleveland situation is unique. The established soccer community might be able to forgive yet never forget the elder Wolstein pulling the plug on the successful Force in the late '80s. Scott & Garafolo were there as well at the time. At present, the whole thing comes across as another business venture in the Wolstein fashion with little perceivable passion for the sport. If that is what MLS wants, they can have it.

Toronto would benefit from a geographic rival. Better Rochester or Detroit. The Crew's good enough for Ohio at present. Just my opinion.

BulaJacket

01 Nov 2005, 01:17 PM

Ruud Boy

12 Nov 2005, 09:18 AM

Well, at least we know that cleveland is represented at mls cup.

Ruud Boy

16 Nov 2005, 01:20 PM

One more little blurb about cleveland. Roger Brown reported today in his column that Paul Garfolo and his unnamed partners are looking to the 2008 round of expansion for cleveland.

Joe Stoker

16 Nov 2005, 01:44 PM

Thanks for scooping me on this. Columnist Roger Brown, the PD Sports' answer to Louella Parsons (look her up) filled a column inch which reveals why Cleveland is still mentioned by Garber everytime someone asks for the wannabe roll-call.

I quote from this morning's column: "...Garofolo and some business partners - whom he won't identify - met recently with Major League Soccer officials to discuss a potential Cleveland expansion team. Garofolo says his group hopes to field an MLS team in 2008."

Apparently, the news isn't important enough to the rest of the staff to discover actually when "recently" was, nor who those "partners" might be. Scott Wolstein hasn't mentioned the words "soccer" or "stadium" in his recent attempts at utilizing eminent domain for private purposes in & around the Flats. I'd imagine he's still on board, but it would be nice for Brown to get off his butt and confirm it one way or the other. But, it doesn't really matter to 99% of PD readers. That column inch would have been more profitable if sold for more massage parlor advertising. Hal Lebovitz would not be proud.

Rafa

02 Dec 2005, 08:00 PM

Maybe MLS didn't do enough focus group testing, maybe their market research people were out grabassing, but it has always been a Browns and Indians town. There is no pro soccer pulse. The Cavs are an easy third, and the Barons aren't gonna make it very much longer. It's a two horse town when it comes to sports, and that's that....

CBusCrew12

02 Dec 2005, 08:06 PM

I don't think Cleveland would that much problem pulling in average attendance. They're used to losing in Sleveland so if they start out bad it shouldn't matter too much :)

I think Akron might be the "happy medium" if possible. You've got Cleveland about 30 minutes north, Canton about a half hour south and Youngstown about 45 minutes east. Akron and Summit County are one of the few places in Ohio seeing a population rise and a SSS could be a very good way to get a new area booming. Maybe a new shopping mall attached, bars and restaurants, hotel, or something around that. Making a stadium a part of the community and its' growth is key in these situations. Adding these things also adds even more perminent jobs that just a stadium, which is something NEO needs.

Do teams that build shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, etc. lease that part of the stadium to the mall and only collect money from the lease, or do they own them and collect all revenue?

Joe Stoker

05 Dec 2005, 10:42 AM

I don't think Cleveland would that much problem pulling in average attendance. They're used to losing in Cleveland so if they start out bad it shouldn't matter too much :)

I think Akron might be the "happy medium" if possible. You've got Cleveland about 30 minutes north, Canton about a half hour south and Youngstown about 45 minutes east. Akron and Summit County are one of the few places in Ohio seeing a population rise and a SSS could be a very good way to get a new area booming. Maybe a new shopping mall attached, bars and restaurants, hotel, or something around that. Making a stadium a part of the community and its' growth is key in these situations. Adding these things also adds even more perminent jobs that just a stadium, which is something NEO needs.

Do teams that build shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, etc. lease that part of the stadium to the mall and only collect money from the lease, or do they own them and collect all revenue?

I'd attribute the Summit population rise to the northernmost portion of the county rather than Akron. From the figures I Yahoo'd, it looks as if Akron is indeed gaining, though only about a thousand-per-year over the last few. Things seem to be booming up between Macedonia and the Turnpike, where Route 8 is due for a major upgrade... and where the Wolstein group was eyeing the golf course land when last heard from.

The gridiron mentality is so deeply rooted in this vicinity (Massillon boys are presented a football at birth) that I doubt that pro soccer will ever be considered anything more than a niche. IMO, the Wolstein ideas were (still are?) about the best of any ever considered regarding pro soccer, as part of a stadium-hotel-mall venture, be it downtown or northern Summit. And, as only part of a larger-scale business venture, maybe the Wolstein group would tolerate 5K crowds for the pro soccer team. The stadium would generate revenue from rock concerts, high school grid, rodeos and such. But that would only give credence to niche stature of pro soccer here... not even comparable to the Cavaliers and their corporate support (the sea-of-suits per game).

If anyone really cared about pro soccer by & for itself around here, they'd need to start at square-one. Yes, kids are playing it all over the place. But that's largely soccer-mom babysitting and money-making for local governments. People spend ticket $ and time on the meat & potatoes... football on all levels, prep basketball, the Tribe, the Cavs.

We boot this subject around here about once a year, but that's okay if for nothing else than as a refresher course for newcomers. Who knows. Maybe one day a Checketts will arrive or arise locally and create something outta nothing. Who'd'a thought Salt Lake just a couple years ago? But BrownsTown ain't Salt Lake. Were I to start MLS here (with super lotto winnings), I wouldn't settle for niche status. But I don't see anyone out there right now with the wherewithal willing to approach it that way. From July training camp to the college draft, it's Browns. The Tribe takes the rest. Without LaBron, the Cavs would only have scraps.

i'd want to be as upbeat as CBus Crew12, but Rafa sees it now as I have for all of my life here. And it's more that way now than ever.

CBusCrew12

05 Dec 2005, 05:03 PM

I'll use the cliche Rome wasn't built in a day, in this situation. If someone was to invest into MLS insomewher like Akron, they would have to realise it could take years before it becomes a serious part of the town. You can't force your way into popularity, you can't force the people to accept you as a part of their city, which is hwere a lot of owners go wrong. You do, however, have to give them a reason to accept you. Time and time again, I see owners looking to make a quick profit on a town, and when it doesn't work out in 3 or 4 years, they leave. They never gave the people of the city a chance to accept the "newbies" as a part of the town. That is especially important, based on my experiences, in this area. If an owner shows signs of being greedy, not caring about the community, causing trouble, etc., peopel will never show up for your team. Why should they? If all the owner cares about is making money off of them and not putting any back into the community, why should they attend games?

Massillon is the rarity, trust me I live here, where the sport is the community. If you help their Tigers win football games, you're helping the community. If the Tigers win, the city of Massillon wins. People camped out for days waiting for the tickets to the state championship and then stayed for a couple more days doing nothing but tailgating for the game. it's a rare case where a sport=community.

I think if an owner that knew that this wasn't going to be a quick profit deal, that he most likely wasn't going to get 20k a game, and that this was going to go through some rough times at first, it would work.

Joe Stoker

06 Dec 2005, 03:22 PM

Well spoken, CBus. Were the thing to be done in Summit County, it would indeed be interesting to see how the franchise was marketed. Would they go after the young professional/eurosnob/corporate crowd, or us blue-collars regularly found in the vicinity of the Dawg Pound or behind the left field gates at the Jake? Which would you approach and to what degree each?

In order to get pro soccer into the minds and souls of current northeastern Ohioans, I believe an owner would need to tap into what author Franklin Foer calls the "burning working-class passion" which you & I can identify so well with the local gridiron culture. It doesn't take genius to realize a potential white collar vs. blue soccer rivalry with Columbus for a start.

But if an owner would be content with Cleveland pro soccer as a quiet tenant living amidst his concrete business/pleasure mall, it might as well be USL-1 rather than MLS. I agree, it would be great for someone who is passionate about the sport to come along and do it as much for soccer as for potential profit. We had something like that going back in '68... even later on the bargain level with the ASL Cobras... But until someone now does...

And that brings up something that bothers me about MLS ownership... where's the passion? Would they even recognize it among "contending" cities if they saw it (Rochester immediately comes to mind)? Seems the current emphasis is heavily on matters of finance rather than the heart. Just my opinion.

It would take an incredible amount of passion, persevereance, and smart marketing here.