The France NSR Thread

[Nanbawan]

So Frenchies, having a little anti-semitism problems over there still?



Have a Jewish head of state in your country first and then we can talk...


Oh, and don't forget to go ******** yourself as well.

That someone thinks he can have an issue about whatever topic after receiving a chain mail, Good Lord. It speaks volume about yourself ! Crawl back to whatever trolling heaven you bothered to come from.

[Nanbawan]

Still connected on KarlRove.com, are you ?


You're too kind, this a-hole doesn't deserve to be given a well formulated response longer than the time necessary to show him my middle finger.

This is of course a serious issue and the question can somewhat be raised but certainly not like that.

[YankBastard]

This is of course a serious issue and the question can somewhat be raised but certainly not like that.

I was being kind of sarcastic when I said it, I tried to come off as funny, but I guess it was misunderstood because of my past here. So to rephrase it, do you French people really have huge anti-semitism over there? I heard from Jews living there, not just that email, that there really is.

[Nanbawan]

Bon, on va pas se laisser emmerder, hein ?

Une chose est sûre, la campagne présidentielle de 1981 avait l'air d'être assez funky...Choisis ton camp camarade !

Mitterand (http://www.radioblogclub.com/open/78962//mitterand%20president%2045t%20-%20campagne%2081)

ou Chirac (http://www.radioblogclub.com/open/78962//Jacques%20Chirac%20-%20Maintenant)

:confused:

J'avoue que cette naïveté et ce premier degré des années 80 me manquent parfois. En même temps, c'est aussi mon enfance ; on ne peut donc écarter l'influence d'une pointe de nostalgie de ma part en ce qui concerne cette époque.

Choisir entre le franc cynisme brutal qui ne connaît pas de limites ou l'hypocrisie la plus sournoise qui semble offrir des garanties, des 'garde-fous' mais qui est aussi bien plus insidieuse ; ce qui la rend plus difficile à discerner, à saisir et donc à combattre...Quel dilemme !

Heureusement, un homme (http://www.radioblogclub.com/open/78962//Bernard%20Tapie%20-%20Reussir%20sa%20vie) peut incarner une troisième voie.

Hem...Bon, on va faire comme si je n'avais rien dit...Cela dit, vous aurez tous remarqué que cette playlist est indispensable.

[Nanbawan]

Spéciale dédicace à Pierre-Henri ! :D

n43u5GDj4TA

Abuser du système à ce point là tout en ayant le bénéfice de passer pour l'un de ses contempteurs...Balèze...J'veux faire ça quand j'serai grand ! Meeerde ! Je suis déjà grand...:(

[Nanbawan]

So to rephrase it, do you French people really have huge anti-semitism over there? I heard from Jews living there, not just that email, that there really is.

Well, since I'm not part of the Jewish community, my opinion remains one of an 'outsider' on the topic. It's true there has been a concerning trend in assaults on Jewish individuals or properties, some hoaxes too BTW. Most of the attacks seemed to be linked with the situation in the ME. Unfortunately, some of toughest (and dumbest) thugs think they can buy themselves some morality by carrying out such deeds. Avenging their broader Muslim community. This is about the worst you can't get when brainless people try to reclaim what they 'think' would give them the belonging to an identity. The most visible symptom of a dysfunctionning society, at least in some of its areas. The tension being on both sides, I guess everytime something like this happens, the fear and anger among the Jewish community rises a notch.

The perception that the French state is turning a blind eye might be due to the perennial fact that French authorities claim to be 'colourblind' when it comes to communities. This said, I don't think that the French police isn't tackling the issue because it deals with Jews ; they simply have the same difficulties here as with dealing with any kind of urban violence elsewhere.

The right wing old fashioned anti-semitism still exists, the paradox being that I have the impression that it has in fact weakened compared to not so long ago. I think people should be able to discern between issues when it deals about Israel too. It's rather easy to be labelled an anti semite when you don't agree with Israel's policy. Judging by some of the threads in P&CE, it's not really special to France. The thing is this confusion works both ways...

Another aspect is also the fact that it's of course a sensitive topic for historical reasons even if a lot of Righteous at Yad Vashem (http://www1.yadvashem.org/righteous/index_righteous.html) institute are French or Dutch. Well, there might not be so much to brag about. Though it's true anti-semitism has played some major part in the country's history, it's also not to be forgotten that Jews led the country. Leon Blum comes to mind. Racism and anti-semitism are present in the French society, only those who thought we were heaven on earth might be shocked ; yet, defining France as to be racist and anti-semitic is a bit off target. On the whole, I would even say it's tougher to be an Arab in France today.

In fact, outside of hot news concerning Jews, the French opinion is not very polarised about for instance who is Jew and who isn't. The overwhelming majority of French citizens are indifferent on the issue and this indifference may be interpretated as comtempt by some members of the community. To make it short, there are real concerning facts but also a good deal of misunderstanding and perception vis à vis this problem.

[Pierre-Henri]

Thanks for the video, Nanba. I'm always eager to improve my culture. However, tell me :

Chaires du Collège de France (http://www.college-de-france.fr/default/EN/all/ins_cha/index.htm)

In which department is Mickael Youn teaching ?

[guignol]

I was being kind of sarcastic when I said it, I tried to come off as funny, but I guess it was misunderstood because of my past here. So to rephrase it, do you French people really have huge anti-semitism over there? I heard from Jews living there, not just that email, that there really is. my best friend here in lyon is jewish. my boss is jewish. i have 2 jewish kids on the basketball team i coach, and i have learned to know their parents over the last 2 seasons.

none of them consider france an antisemitic country. neither does jean daniel, editor of the nouvel observateur and perhaps the most astute and influential person in the french editorial community over the past 50 years. nor does presidential candidate dominique strauss-kahn or le monde journalist serge halimi.

france does have shameful incidents in its history (cf. the dreyfus affair, the acts of the vichy government), but probably no more than other countries including the US, and even if it has been widespread at periods in the past, antisemitism has never been endemic here, and has always been fought by the best elements of french society.

there have been antisemitic incidents in france over the past years, almost all perpetrated by muslim delinquents in problem suburbs but nothing like the shameless propaganda hate e-mail you quoted; still, propagandists keep branding france in its entirety as antisemitic.

why? perhaps because of the position of the french government and intelligentsia. many consider it virulently pro-palestinian and anti-israeli... but the 3 jewish intellectuals mentioned above share it, so it's hard to call these ideas antisemitic.

[guignol]

it's also not to be forgotten that Jews led the country. Leon Blum comes to mind.actually it's pierre mendès-france who comes to my mind. now there's a president!

[RVN17]

Hello :)

I'm planning on spending New Years Eve in the centre of Paris and I was wondering if somebody can name me a few good pubs which are fun to go to. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[ilv2]

hm anywhere on mouffetard could be good, although it's a little bit away from where the most new years action might be. if you're looking for a lot of people, try places close to the bastille, st. michel, champs elysees, etc.


-------------------------

In other news, Sego is the PS candidate for the presidentielle, beating out DSK and Laurent Fabius in the primaries 60.6% to 20.8% and 18.5% respectively.
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-835458@51-822961,0.html

exciting times. I always thought DSK could've been good, hopefully those who supported the "losers" will show solidarity so as to avoid another 2002.

[Douai]

In other news, Sego is the PS candidate for the presidentielle, beating out DSK and Laurent Fabius in the primaries 60.6% to 20.8% and 18.5% respectively.
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-835458@51-822961,0.html

exciting times. I always thought DSK could've been good, hopefully those who supported the "losers" will show solidarity so as to avoid another 2002.

Damn, you beat me to posting that.

[ilv2]

lol well there's plenty of news items to go around ;)

Recently on the right, there have been two interesting developments with respect to the presidential election.

1) Bernadette said that her husband is still in his prime, and ready as ever to lead the country. This adds to the number of rumors that Chirac will seek a third term, if not to lead the country, then to at least take a number of votes away from M. Karcher over there.
2) Dominique de Villepin has also stated that nothing is final yet with the UMP, and that Sarko will have competition before being named as the party candidate. Justifying these statements, Villepin has stated that the key issue is that french people need a real debate - a statement which I wholeheartedly agree with, but one that is also very opportunistic (anti-sarko) as we all know what his idea of debate was during the CPE decree, and the subsequent polemic.

Sweet.

[Nanbawan]

I think that Sarko will taste the Shark Chirac flavah ! Once again, someone underestimated him and thought he had the upper hand, but when it comes to those political tricks, jack'O still owns them. Even if he had to put Debré in the race to kill Nico, he'd be able to do so...:D

http://idata.over-blog.com/0/33/95/12/guignol_20chirac.jpg

aM8IOrr7dKo

[YankBastard]

Israel hating Frenchies

UN envoy: France supports terror, opposes Israel

http://article.wn.com/view/2006/11/19/UN_envoy_France_supports_terror_opposes_Israel/

[ilv2]

You know, the term "frenchies" is frankly quite derisory. Though you've explained that it is a joke, it seems that you have an particular attraction for it and use it in most, if not all, posts in this thread. Even from the perspective of a non-french person, the frequency thereof is grating and runs counter to the point of the thread, which should be a constructive exchange of topics other than football.

W/ respect to Israel, given past events such as the bombing of the UN mission in Beruit, the French are reasonably justified in expressing their concern over Israeli military policy.

[YankBastard]

You know, the term "frenchies" is frankly quite derisory..

Yeah, like yank. I call French people "frenchie" all the time to their face and they don't seem to have a problem with it. How is the term "Frenchie" deragatory?

[ilv2]

not derogatory, but derisory - speaking from experience as an immigrant, I can accept a fair amount of ribbing from my friends for my background. However, there exists a point where the humor is not there anymore, and that often comes when the term is brought up incessantly in a certain context.
I do not know what the opinion of the french posters here is. But given the common misunderstandings and tempers that arise in the thread, I would imagine that a certain level of irritation exists below the surface.

[guignol]

YB is just indulging in some harmless teasing in a spirit... bon enfant. the clues are 1) his new avatar and 2) his link going to story is from ha'aretz... with popups for real estate in israel as a bonus. if you read the story in full you see that the only nations that don't "hate israel and support terrorism" are "The U.S., Israel and Australia [...] along with four Pacific Island nations."

but i understand and even share ilv2's irritation... the key word he uses is incessantly... at a certain point these things go beyond simply tedious...

[Pierre-Henri]

This adds to the number of rumors that Chirac will seek a third term, if not to lead the country, then to at least take a number of votes away from M. Karcher over there.


http://brevehistoire.free.fr/Image/Brejnev.jpg
BREJNEV


http://brevehistoire.free.fr/Image/Tchernenko.jpg
TCHERNENKO


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40992000/jpg/_40992462_ap203bodychirac.jpg
CHIRAKOV

French democracy is really doing fine, isn't it ? Soon, dead people will also be candidates.