The France NSR Thread

[Nanbawan]

I wonder if I'll have the balls to leave the country if Sarko gets elected...

[ilv2]

For those that are into politics, Sarkozy was interviewed on France 2's Le Journal 20 Hr:
http://jt.france2.fr/20h/

Children aren't integrated because of an undefined immigration policy? Give me a break :rolleyes:

*~30,000 of which ~24,000 are deported. Ridiculous. At least there should be a report published by the ministry of the interior detailing the methods and processes by which they eliminated so many, and not just one case involving an Ukrainian.

And given that it's Sarko, i wouldn't be surprised if the guy was a mute

[YankBastard]

good on you for posting the news link, but the "frenchies" part was unnecessary.

....true. But you know I have to bust your balls every once in a while.

[YankBastard]

I wonder if I'll have the balls to leave the country if Sarko gets elected...

I don't think you do. :cool: Besides where you going to go? America? :p

[Pierre-Henri]

I don't think you do. :cool: Besides where you going to go? America? :p

I don't know what Nanbawan thinks, but for me, why not ? America has many assets. If I had an opportunity to work at one of your famous universities or liberal arts colleges, I wouldn't say "no", I can tell you.

[Douai]

I don't know what Nanbawan thinks, but for me, why not ? America has many assets. If I had an opportunity to work at one of your famous universities or liberal arts colleges, I wouldn't say "no", I can tell you.
How much do you actually know about America?I guarantee you that if you leave and go to the U.S. you will regret it.Many foreigners, including my dad who is French, later on regret leaving their home country.Then again it also depends on what country you left from.Compared to France, the United States is very strict and uptight.The exact opposite of France.Not only that but since your French they will treat you badly (the U.S. hates France now).I read that French travel agents based in the U.S., and many other French companies have lost a lot of money due to the newfound hatred of France.That may change though if Sarkozy gets elected in France.Supposely, he wants to be very close and good friends with the U.S.

BTW: Where are you politically?Liberal or conservative?That will make a big difference on how you view America.

[Nanbawan]

America? :p

Wandering around the World. :cool:



I don't know what Nanbawan thinks, but for me, why not ?

I never really had the american fantasy even if I'd like to visit the country. Would be why not but for something that really interests me besides being in the US.

Before the WC, I thought Italy would be nice ! :D

[Nanbawan]

That may change though if Sarkozy gets elected in France.Supposely, he wants to be very close and good friends with the U.S.



Pierre-Henri will now campaign for Sarkozy ! Win-win, a good incentive to leave and something positive in US-France relationships.

[Nanbawan]

Well, if Sarkozy is elected and tries and stamp his authority on the country, Brittany will go berserk. So, I might as well stay here. Might be interesting ! I'll take 'le maquis'. :rolleyes:






Phew ! Problem solved ! :D

[YankBastard]

Not only that but since your French they will treat you badly (the U.S. hates France now).I read that French travel agents based in the U.S., and many other French companies have lost a lot of money due to the newfound hatred of France.

They don't hate Frenchies in America. We just worked together to stop that stupid war in Lebenon together. The Pentegon finally removed the "freedom fries" name from the menu; now maybe they should rightfully change it to Belgian fries, but you know how Americans are. We can catagorize France as our most hated ally. However, our rivalry is more like sibling rivalry than utter hatred. In conclusion, you won't be treated badly in America....as long as you speak English. :p

[Pierre-Henri]

I'm a Phd in humanities and Phds in humanities dream about America, exactly the same way a 5th division player dreams about the Champion's League. Stanford, Yale, Princeton, Berkeley, Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Vassar, Carleton, Amherst, Wesleyan... I could list a few dozains of places in the USA where "no" is not an operative answer. That doesn't mean I have a specific admiration for the USA, just that I like their top tier universities.

And, don't worry, Douai, it may not look obvious here on the net, but I'm a pretty "strict and uptight" person myself. One day at the library is my idea of fun.

Politically, I don't know where I stand, like most french people, I guess. Socialist policies in the fields of education and university are complete failures (I will never forgive the '89 education law) ; Sarkozy thinks he is some sort of ultimate lord and saviour, and probably fancies himself as the new Napoléon. How could I vote for someone who is more present in the medias than Stalin in the russian newspapers circa 1937 ? And the guy is only minister of Interior ! If he becomes president, I guess they'll paint his face on each and every wall in the country.

Hé, Nanbawan, chiche !

http://alain.cerri.free.fr/The%20question%20of%20the%20French%20Resistance_fichiers/maquisards.jpg

How long could you live without warm meals, a clean bed and TV ?

[Douai]

And, don't worry, Douai, it may not look obvious here on the net, but I'm a pretty "strict and uptight" person myself. One day at the library is my idea of fun.
I was thinking "strict and uptight" in the sense of Pat Robertson.Have you heard of him?

[Jayfil]

I wonder if I'll have the balls to leave the country if Sarko gets elected...

Hmm...fortunately my similar threats were not tested and Bob Dole was never elected, but I wussed out and didn't claim my Canadian citizenship after Bush was elected a second time.

If you were me, I'd say no. I couldn't get my wife to sacrifice her career to move, unfortunately. Maybe you have more resolve though ;)

[Nanbawan]

Hé, Nanbawan, chiche !

http://alain.cerri.free.fr/The%20question%20of%20the%20French%20Resistance_fichiers/maquisards.jpg

How long could you live without warm meals, a clean bed and TV ?

The trick is to put yourself in a position where you won't have the choice anymore ! ;)

[Pierre-Henri]

I was thinking "strict and uptight" in the sense of Pat Robertson.Have you heard of him?

I didn't know this guy... Sheesh, we europeans can't keep track of all the looneys America is producing on a daily basis. Anyway, this guy is not "strict and uptight", he is a barking mad fanatic. Please use the correct words.

I wonder if I'll have the balls to leave the country if Sarko gets elected...

BTW, where would you go ? Immigration is easy within the EU, but you need to speak the language (and, obviously, to find a job). I guess that Ireland and the UK are good choices, but life there is expensive, and they're hardly more liberal countries than France :rolleyes:. Socially and economically, Italy is even in a worse shape than France, and Germany is not that better. Spain is ok, I guess, but their universities suck. Scandinavian countries are great, but their languages are a severe pain to learn. A friend of mine tried Norway... well, norwegian requires more than a few Assimil lessons before you can work with it.

For french speaking people, Switzerland and Canada are often destinations of choice, but you need a working permit, a permanent resident visa, and a job waiting for you ... and it's hard to find a job in Canada from France, I can tell you, especially since Canada, by law, applies the "préférence nationale".

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/canada-europa/france/visas/carte-fr.asp

Funny that. Soon, we will have to sing third world refugees kind of songs. Maybe one day french people will have to seek shelter in Mali, Ivory Coast or Cameroon... how deliciously ironic this would be.

"I am a refugee
In a world that once was mine
Hunting my tomorrow
On the edge of time
But these days I'm running through the dark
Like a blind man -- what's happened to me?
These days I'm running from a tribe in the badlands
Oh set me free"
[Johnny Cleeg, African Shadow Man]

[ilv2]

ah but you earn more in the UK to accomodate the prices, so says the myth of the economically liberal anglo-saxon state (and I for one do believe in it, one only needs to look at the CAP and the fight over reforming it).

[Pierre-Henri]

Err, you mean "libéral" in french (ie capitalist ?) ... or "liberal" in english (ie socialist) ? Bloody words that mean exactly the opposite from one language to another. That's brits for you : give them the most beautiful language on earth and, a few centuries later, they turn it into crap.

I guess what you say concerns mostly londoners. I'm sure you can find some splendid spots in remote areas, in Wales or Scotland. Personaly I don't care, but it would be weird to end in the UK for a french fleeing the evil right-wing capitalistico-plutocrat Sarkozy. This behaviour, however, is not uncommon with french people. I know many french young researchers who are leftists to the death, who spit on capitalism, industry, and the like, who worship the "modèle social français" as the only really operative one on earth .... But, when they have an opportunity to work* at the MIT, Stanford, or some classy british university, the first thing they say is : "bye-bye french paradise, hello Mr. Dollar, hello Ms. Pound" :p .

Worst thing, most of the time, they don't even see this as a contradiction. I've recently read a post in a blog from some french guy at the MIT, who was bashing the evil american capitalist greed, and so on. Moron ! Someone asked him : If you hate the american way, why don't you come back in France and work at one of our academic slums ? Obvious answers : the pay is not as good, the working conditions are without any possible comparison, and the prestige of the MIT allows to work at a level unthinkable at most french institutions. But, of course, he was still convinced that the french model was much better, in theory. Sometimes, I wonder if my fellow citizens don't require a massive psycho-therapy above anything else.

---------------------------------
* A rough estimate is that 10 000 french scholars and researchers are currently working in north america. Brain drain is one of the major issues here in France today.

[Douai]

Anyway, this guy is not "strict and uptight", he is a barking mad fanatic. Please use the correct words.
Yeah, he is a mad fanatic.I think Hannity from Hannity and Colmes is a better example of what I meant.

[ilv2]

Err, you mean "libéral" in french (ie capitalist ?) ... or "liberal" in english (ie socialist) ? Bloody words that mean exactly the opposite from one language to another. That's brits for you : give them the most beautiful language on earth and, a few centuries later, they turn it into crap.


The former.

You know, one of the things I like most about the country is the attachment to theory and ideal (*although one can say that the US is driven by 'ideal' :rolleyes: but let's not kid ourselves). Perhaps that's a result of me not yet being part of the work force yet and lacking professional experience, but the republican/socialist model should always remain as the goal for the country to strive for. Of course, most people become mistaken and try to achieve it too quickly or even think that it has already been achieved. IMHO it's not a system that is at all incompatible with reality, as some people have argued (brits), it's simply that the proper steps are not being taken to arrive at the
desired destination.
I'm sure that most of the expats that have complained about the anglo/liberal mindset are quite aware that they are, on one level, contradicting themselves, but those who have jumped ship aren't really to blame for emigrating abroad. Who's fault is it that the status quo is disfunctional and ultimately frustrating for those who live in it? I'd place the blame on politicians (although there are undoubtedly a multitude of other internal and external factors), or as you put it before, the bureaucratic mess that governs the country.


rep for some real quality posts btw :)

[Pierre-Henri]

This is a Fow News show, right ? From what we know here about this media, they are nothing more than fear sellers. As I said, I don't know where I stand politicaly here in France, to give me US references won't help me. I guess I'm a rater voltairian kind of citizen : live and let live, and no excess of any sort. No communism, no pseudo-darwinian economic theories. Unfortunately, political parties here in France tend to shift toward the extremes. Sarkozy is fishing in le Pen stinky waters, and socialists are trying to attract voters from the various communists parties.

However, as I said to Ilv2, the main issue in France isn't really the left/right opposition. It goes deeper than that : the structure of the government itself is disfunctional, and the overall mentality dates from another age. For example, Jacques Chirac, during his recent vacations, used an medical emergency helicopter as a taxi, simply to avoid the traffic. Someone who was hurt had to wait an hour before he could be rescued. In no modern democracy such thing should happen : put the life of some bloke in danger, simply because the monarch wants to go shopping. This happens in France. And stories like this are manifold, not only at the highest level, but in every place where power is involved. République bananière, as the popular catch-phrase says... the people may be true here, I'm afraid.