The France NSR Thread

[Pierre-Henri]

Nanbawan, we also say a lot of bad things about France. We can let Yankbastard have a little bit of the fun. Anyway, I do hope the US-France feud didn't stop any joint effort. Lives are at stake, after all.

And its true that Gallet seems to like the post-apocalyptic kind of look. A CRS in full armour looks like a bad guy from a sci-fi B-movie. I'm sure they're doing this on purpose.

http://universpolice.free.fr/CRS/SPI/robocopFace.jpg

[ilv2]

^ i remember seeing the crs (in full armor) for the first time with a buddy, we just stopped dead in our tracks and thought we were seeing something out of star wars.

[Pierre-Henri]

Protesters should follow the trend and dress like this :

http://www.coucoucircus.org/da/images-da/sankukai.jpg

[ilv2]

^ LOL what in the world is that!?

i heart the clown crs
http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/CRS%20clowns/video/x1ze1_brigade-des-clowns

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2682/img4072sr8.jpg
(especially the one to the left. They don't really qualify though... where are the face paint and the goofy outfits?)

[Pierre-Henri]

1) Granted. It's often more interesting to side with protesters. From what I've read on this forum, American students seem to enjoy french public demonstrations a lot. Are french politics that interesting, or is it nothing but convenient way to meet babes ?

Beware, because we also have that kind of public displays :

http://www.france-echos.com/IMG/jpg/r2441573388.jpg

Don't mix the two kinds, if you don't want to face serious trouble. Your charm would be rather useless here :p .


2) The picture i posted is from a japanese show, named "San Ku Kai" in french, which was a big hit on tv in the late 70-early 80. The pic shows the two heroes : Staros et le Fantôme (don't ask me who is who).The bad guys looked somewhat like today CRS in their riot outfit.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ku_Ka%C3%AF

[Douai]

1) Granted. It's often more interesting to side with protesters. From what I've read on this forum, American students seem to enjoy french public demonstrations a lot.

One of the many things that makes the U.S. so backwards from other parts of the world is the lack of protests.Very few protests go on in the U.S., and if they do not many people take part in them.Even the poorest nations in the world have thousands of people in the streets holding rallies for political leaders, and protesting against the government.It's not like the U.S. government is so perfect that no one should protest.Far from it.My dad says part of the problem is the lack of concern most Americans have for politics.

[YankBastard]

One of the many things that makes the U.S. so backwards from other parts of the world is the lack of protests.Very few protests go on in the U.S., and if they do not many people take part in them.Even the poorest nations in the world have thousands of people in the streets holding rallies for political leaders, and protesting against the government.It's not like the U.S. government is so perfect that no one should protest.Far from it.My dad says part of the problem is the lack of concern most Americans have for politics.

Very true, most of us Americans can't even name their city's mayor nor anyone in their state's leadership/representation structure. Another reason why they don't protest is because of the "no bitching" attitude that has been branded into the American psyche.

[Douai]

Another reason why they don't protest is because of the "no bitching" attitude that has been branded into the American psyche.
Yeah, that's true, too.

[Douai]

Besides the cheap firemen helmets, there are many examples of the U.S. putting as little effort into things as possible, such as cars, and electronics.Even the U.S. dollar doesn't look as nice as the Euro or even the Japanese Yen.

€ vs the $:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Euro_banknotes.jpg

http://blog.blogware.com/images/2005/08/stack_of_money.jpg

[ilv2]

1) Granted. It's often more interesting to side with protesters. From what I've read on this forum, American students seem to enjoy french public demonstrations a lot. Are french politics that interesting, or is it nothing but convenient way to meet babes ?

for me it's the former as i'm doing sociological studies w/ my degree in french. And who couldn't help but be fascinated by Villepin and Sarko? There's so much to talk about.

But it's something you'll never find here, and I think yankbastard is absolutely correct, so most students and tourists will flock to them just to take a look at those "crazy french" sometimes staying too long and getting caught up in the more sordid aspects of the manifs (casseurs, lacrymogène, et al.)

The pictures are worth it though.

[Nanbawan]

Protesters should follow the trend and dress like this :

http://www.coucoucircus.org/da/images-da/sankukai.jpg


Reeeep !

San Ku Kai (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2rnx_sankukai), c'est la bataille !

Musn't be very well known in Japan even if the original author is. I remember a Japanese mate who had the same reaction as ilv2...WTF is that !? We watched the first episode and I guess he might have been very embarassed of being from the Land of the Rising Sun during approximatively 20 minutes...

[Pierre-Henri]

for me it's the former as i'm doing sociological studies w/ my degree in french. And who couldn't help but be fascinated by Villepin and Sarko? There's so much to talk about.


Suddenly, I feel like an Amazonian tribesman under the scrutiny of Claude Levi-Strauss. Actually, you'd need a structuralist study of 5000 pages if you want to understand french politics. Can you imagine we have a law wich allows the acquital of famous sportsmen ? Gabon, Centrafique, Nicaragua, Ouzbekistan ? No : France. And the influence of Trotskyists in university is something beyond the range of my imagination. I wonder how many democracies in the world still have 3 different communist parties.

Let's summarize, from right to left :

- Front National (FN) : extreme right wing, backward and xenophobic. Leader : Jean-Marie le Pen.

- Union Majorité Présidentielle (UMP) : the regular right, the republicans. Leaders : Jacques Chirac, Nicolas Sarkozy.

- Union pour la Démocratie Française (UDF) : the democrats. Leader : François Bayrou.

- Parti Socialiste (PS) : the moderate left. Leaders : Ségolène Royal, François Hollande, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Jack Lang, Bertrand Delanoë, Laurent Fabius... and a few dozains of others. Rumours say socialists have more leaders than voters.

- Les Verts : the environmentalists. Leaders : Noël Mamère, Dominique Voynet.

- Le Parti Communiste (PC). Traditional commies. Leader : Marie-Georges Buffet.

- La Ligue Communiste Révolutionnaire (LCR). Younger and tougher commies. Leader : Olivier Besancenot.

- Lutte Ouvrière (LO). Tougher tougher commies. Leader : Arlette Laguillier.

And these are only the most important parties. While, in USA, your only choice is between Halliburton's candidate and the other Halliburton's candidate.

On the other hand, it looks complicated but, at the end of your structuralist study, you'll end with a rather simple scheme : "second-in-charge wants to be big leader". In french : être calife à la place du calife.

[ilv2]

On the other hand, it looks complicated but, at the end of your structuralist study, you'll end with a rather simple scheme : "second-in-charge wants to be big leader". In french : être calife à la place du calife.

Ah that brings back memories of my hostmom. Everytime she saw my textbooks she would say "throw away that crap, I never needed them to know how it works - it's simple!" However, I have a suspicion that she votes for the FN, so she may be just buying into their mantra. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure that the comparison between the democratic party and the UDF is the best however. No one could imagine the democrats making alliances with the republicans or maintaining a relationship even remotely similar to the UDF/UMP partnership (despite their recent "differences"), which is more a result of the nature of the system. If one is speaking of their respective political positions, I'm not quite sure what the democratic party's stances are, so perhaps in that manner they are similar.

From an outsider's pov, the country is so utterly disfunctional (no offense) that it makes it a great subject for research and study. Even beyond the complexity of political theory and systems, personally no country provides as interesting a look at immigration, social movement and progress, etc. as France. And on the most basic level you get to the uniqueness of the county's political history and that brings you full circle. In America it's quite easy to retreat and ignore what goes on around oneself, but from my experience the opposite is true for France, or at least for Paris. A lot of conclusions about life/society/etc. are made because one is forced to confront them.

... 5000 pages though is a little too much to ask.

in any case, to start the buildup to the elections, 10 euros says Sagolene gets booted by the PS :D

[Anti-footix]

we need a new constitution. The "5ème République" is a dysfonctional constitution, even more since the "quinquenat".
now, the Prime minister is just the President puppet and the lesgislative power is like non existant.

and I think trying to compare UMP with Repulican and UDF with Democrates is not really accurate. I think saying UMP is kind of a conservative party and UDF kind of a liberal party is enough to understand the French political issues.

[Douai]

I think it is better to call UDF a centrist party.

[ilv2]

^No, that they ally themselves with the UMP during elections and in the legislative bodies means that they qualify as center-right.

we need a new constitution. The "5ème République" is a dysfonctional constitution, even more since the "quinquenat".
now, the Prime minister is just the President puppet and the lesgislative power is like non existant.

god, that's going to be fun. Changing the entire system though, is not going to change the mentality of the politicians that partake in it. It might do a lot to solve certain roadblocks one runs into actually, but I think that'd be it.

I think saying UMP is kind of a conservative party and UDF kind of a liberal party is enough to understand the French political issues.

that doesn't translate to US politics though, liberal/conservative have completely different meanings than in France.

[Pierre-Henri]

As a province guy, I'd say main issue in France is centralism (here I go once again...), which dates from the 17th century. Louis XIV wanted to unify the country under his absolute control, and therefore he gathered all levels of decision at the Versailles royal court. It may sound odd to you when I say that, because we had a lot of revolutions in the meantime, but the structure of governement remained roughly the same : all powers centralized in the same place.

Another reason, linked to it, is the french immoderate love for bureaucracy. According to the polls, 70% of the young french would like a job as civil workers. And they don't want to be cops, firemen, ER surgeons or the like. They're dreaming about a not too demanding job, with few constrains and all social advantages. Plus, the politicians always (and I mean : ALWAYS) resort to bureaucracy when any trouble occurs. Result, over the years, layers and layers of administrative structures have accumulated, meaning the country today is almost ungovernable.

For example, as you know, roadkills are a major issue in France. Every new governement says it will do something about it... In french political language, this means "create another bureaucracy". Therefore, we have today 32 (!) different public bodies in charge of traffic security. Here is the list :

- Direction des transports terrestres
- Direction des routes
- Direction de la sécurité et de la circulation routière
- Service des routes et autoroutes
- Centre d’études sur les réseaux, les transports et l’urbanisme
- CETUR (Centre d’étude des transports urbains)
- Bureau de recherche et prospective des transports
- OEST (Observatoire économique et statistique des transports)
- Compte national annuel des transports (INSEE)
- INRETS (Institut national de la recherche sur les transports et leur sécurité)
- Observatoire National Interministériel de Sécurité Routière
- Délégué Interministériel à la Sécurité Routière
- Conseil général des Ponts et Chaussées
- Commissariat général aux transports
- Commissariat aux transports terrestres
- Conseil national des transports
- Inspection générale des transports
- Direction des affaires économiques et internationales
- Mission sur le transport intermodal
- CETE (Centre d’études techniques de l’équipement)
- FACES (Filière d’animation et de coordination en exploitation et sécurité
routière)
- SETRA (Service d’études techniques des routes et autoroutes)
- Association pour la qualification des équipements de la route
- Bureaux de normalisation routière (+ 30 Commissions nationales)
- Comité français pour les techniques routières
- Club des concepteurs routiers
- Club d’échange d’expériences sur les routes départementales
- Laboratoire des Ponts et Chaussées
- LET (Laboratoire de recherche spécialisé en économie des transports et en
aménagement du territoire)
- Conseil national de la sécurité routière
- Observatoire des conditions économiques et sociales des transports
- Observatoire des Politiques et des Stratégies de Transport

And the situation is roughly the same in any aspect of french life. In the areas I know the best (university, education), you find the same kind of bureaucratic labyrinth at every level. Every time you try to do something, you face a gigantic wall of bureaucracy, which rapidly kills any creativity, any enthousiasm and every efficiency.

So you see, Ilv2, "disfunctional" is not too strong a word. It's not an offense, it's the sad and simple truth.

[YankBastard]

Frenchies say, "Get outta here immigrants!"

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-08-15T200457Z_01_L15358650_RTRUKOC_0_UK-FRANCE-IMMIGRATION.xml&archived=False

PARIS (Reuters) - Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy on Tuesday defended his decision to expel thousands of illegal immigrants this year, saying France needed an uncompromising immigration policy following recent rioting in its suburbs.

[ilv2]

Frenchies say, "Get outta here immigrants!"

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-08-15T200457Z_01_L15358650_RTRUKOC_0_UK-FRANCE-IMMIGRATION.xml&archived=False

good on you for posting the news link, but the "frenchies" part was unnecessary. It's a factious issue, and while what you added was simply a tagline, it should at least provide a clear representation of what the article really says.

As a province guy, I'd say main issue in France is centralism (here I go once again...), which dates from the 17th century. Louis XIV wanted to unify the country under his absolute control, and therefore he gathered all levels of decision at the Versailles royal court. It may sound odd to you when I say that, because we had a lot of revolutions in the meantime, but the structure of governement remained roughly the same : all powers centralized in the same place.

Doesn't sound odd at all - what's that saying you guys have about revolutions and progress?

[Douai]

For those that are into politics, Sarkozy was interviewed on France 2's Le Journal 20 Hr:
http://jt.france2.fr/20h/