The France NSR Thread

[gaijin]

From my own experiences. Student services and the Unions are about a million times better in the UK than in France. Their are tons more societies and activities as well. Most of the Unis in France tend to be too geared towards it looking like a functional place to work. Same for most lycees as well...

Also;

Sorbonne >>>>>>> Jussieu

However France has much a better grant and financial aid system than we have. So I think it works out pretty well. But I would easily choose a UK uni over a French one anyday.

[ilv2]

Also;

Sorbonne >>>>>>> Jussieu

agreed, but the sorbonne (and moreover the quartier latin) is also ancient, so serves as a sort of historical site in addition to a university institution whereas jussieu is purely the latter

[guignol]

However France has much a better grant and financial aid system than we have. So I think it works out pretty well. But I would easily choose a UK uni over a French one anyday.my son goes to an international (public) school here in Lyon. a recent report given to parents showed that the anglophone section a) has had 100% success at the bac over the last 3 years :eek: and b) postbaccalauréat destinations are about 45% english universities, 35% grandes écoles, 10% facultés and 10% other foreign (mostly US) universities. this is a pretty good indication of the attractiveness of british higher education.

[Pierre-Henri]

The Sorbonne and the ENS (Ecole Normale Supérieure) are used as some sort of decoys. We show them to foreigners and say : "we have nice universities". Everything else is let to ruin. Other parisian universities (ie, poor people universities) are dumps, full to the rafters with asbestos cement : Nanterre, Jussieu, Orsay...

Jacques Chirac promised that the abestos would be removed from Jussieu... in 1996. Ten years later, still a work in progress.

The grant aid doesn't work that well. Today, the phd honorary stipend ("allocation de recherche") is less than the SMIC (lower legal salary*). And, for humanities, nothing exists in France like the british AHRC, the canadian SSHRC or the american NEH. And private foundations barely exist here.

In one single word :Third-worldization.

--------------------
* Yes, many wages are in fact lower than the lower legal limit. This is french logic, don't even try to understand.

[Sachin]

This week's Economist (US Edition) features France on the cover. I've not read it yet, but will report back when I do.

Sachin

[Pierre-Henri]

This week's Economist (US Edition) features France on the cover. I've not read it yet, but will report back when I do.

Sachin

Yes, thanks, it's always a good thing to see what others think about us. I'd prefer to be frontpage for our outstanding success, mind you.

[gaijin]

The Sorbonne and the ENS (Ecole Normale Supérieure) are used as some sort of decoys. We show them to foreigners and say : "we have nice universities". Everything else is let to ruin. Other parisian universities (ie, poor people universities) are dumps, full to the rafters with asbestos cement : Nanterre, Jussieu, Orsay...

Jacques Chirac promised that the abestos would be removed from Jussieu... in 1996. Ten years later, still a work in progress.


Blame the fact that Mitterand went out of power then...

No surprise that most French unis have taken a slide since the Gaulistes were in office.


The grant aid doesn't work that well. Today, the phd honorary stipend ("allocation de recherche") is less than the SMIC (lower legal salary*). And, for humanities, nothing exists in France like the british AHRC, the canadian SSHRC or the american NEH. And private foundations barely exist here.


Surely its better for undergraduates?

Its actually true that most French people move abroad if they want to persue a post graduate degree or PhD. But to be honest, I don't think I've ever met a French person who would want to take one on.

[Sachin]

You know what I would love to read: A French guidebook on travelling in the United States. It would be interesting to see how you (French) view us (Muhrcans) from the perspective of a tourist guide.

:)

Sachin

[sl7vk]

You know what I would love to read: A French guidebook on travelling in the United States. It would be interesting to see how you (French) view us (Muhrcans) from the perspective of a tourist guide.

:)

Sachin

Well if most French people are like my in laws, then I imagine it has a lot to do with how to travel on a Greyhound bus (Like Jack Kerowack), and visiting trailer parks in the desert.

[Nanbawan]

Yes, thanks, it's always a good thing to see what others think about us.

Err, I'm not so sure anymore.


Everything else is let to ruin

Again, some provincial unis like Rennes1 might not be sexy or prestigious, but they're not in ruin...Yet...Maybe...

Jussieu is horrendous and depressing though, that was quite a shock going there from Brittany. Some of the admistrative personel were also quite close of the image typically conveyed (ie very dry and not pleasant) nothing to do with guys from Rennes (or maybe I had been lucky).

I think we already talked about asbestos in Jussieu earlier in this very thread but I'll restate one of my memories there of having someone 'de-asbestosing' a corridor in heavy gear with mask and all and dangerous zone tape and us students being like 4 meters from there...

As for being functionalist and dull, yeah, as far as facilities are concerned it's paramount ugliness. Quite a depressing environment. Somewhat, I understand why some of the bio students in Jussieu are so radical. During my one year there, I challenged myself to just vist their department, I never dared ! Looked like Resident Evil in Soviet Union. Fortunately, I had the luck of having the windows of the Arab World Institute to look at during courses. And coming from Bastille to Jussieu, crossing the Seine with Notre-Dame on your right the morning wasn't so bad either...I also lived in Ivry but that's another story.

The lack of student organisations did not bother me since I'm not really gregarious and was too happy of not being a student 24/7. Once the courses were finished, I did not want to be part of the Uni world so it suited me. Though, I know the facultés with their functionalist and cold environments do not help concerning the social rupture and solitude for students coming from their local HS. This said, there are a lot of cases of course but the french students life may be quite different from their american counterparts. I don't know the latter, yet I'm not so sure I would have liked it, FWIW.


In one single word :Third-worldization.


It's not fair, neither for France nor for the real hardships of Third World that shouldn't be belittled. Having said that, I agree there's a lot to do concerning universities in a system that more or less despise them in favour of the Grandes Ecoles. I know, I tried Math Sup...and failed...I was appaled by the very elitist state of mind there and the wide accepted overlooking of Universities. I would like to avoid blanket statements as much as possible ; it's just, in this system, you'd better have strong personal convictions and a certain honesty towards things not to be influenced by the surrounding mentality.

[AllezParisAllezPSG]

Back to the subject,

Rennes 1 (science) does not seem to do so bad, everytime I go back there, they're building new facilities. Well, must have something to do with being linked with the technology sector, communication and automotive. The big affair when I was there was the 'synergy' with industry notably the big PSA (Peugeot-Citroën) plant located in Rennes.

yea PSA has one of its biggest assembly plants in Rennes (as well as those in Sochaux, Aulnay) and others in other countries (brazil, rydon (england), spain, italy)...

next step, hopefully the US market... they have been talking about it forever and 1 day they will probably come back if i had to take a guess... when though who knows... but i would love to drive a 407 or a 206 RC w/ 17 inch rims down 3rd Ave here in ny :cool: ...

i say all of this because i interned for peugeot at their New Jersey office and also this past summer w/ Citroen in Paris... but i'm still biased towards Peugeot... long live the french automobile industry :)

[AllezParisAllezPSG]

This week's Economist (US Edition) features France on the cover. I've not read it yet, but will report back when I do.

Sachin

not exactly good publicity for france... doesn't surprise me it's their headline... not looking forward to tomorrow though and i feel sorry for all those that are in france right now because tomorrow will be a very annoying day w/ strikes all over the country... i recommend reading the articles on france... some may not agree with it but i agree with most of what it says (at least what france must do otherwise the longer it waits, the more it will find itself at a greater disadvantage)

[ilv2]

not exactly good publicity for france... doesn't surprise me it's their headline... not looking forward to tomorrow though and i feel sorry for all those that are in france right now because tomorrow will be a very annoying day w/ strikes all over the country... i recommend reading the articles on france... some may not agree with it but i agree with most of what it says (at least what france must do otherwise the longer it waits, the more it will find itself at a greater disadvantage)

in paris it wasn't as bad as last week.

With respect to reading up on France, i'd be very wary of any "outside sources" (i.e. non-french sources) because often their point of view and moreover, their analysis doesn't reflect a clear understanding of the events and society. What i'm not stressing is a difference of opinion, because you'll find the full spectrum in france itself, rather, what i'm getting at is a fundamental comprehension of the characteristics and traditions that make up the country's identity.

[guignol]

With respect to reading up on France, i'd be very wary of any "outside sources" (i.e. non-french sources) because often their point of view and moreover, their analysis doesn't reflect a clear understanding of the events and society. What i'm not stressing is a difference of opinion, because you'll find the full spectrum in france itself, rather, what i'm getting at is a fundamental comprehension of the characteristics and traditions that make up the country's identity.i agree wholeheartedly. for example, take Time International. they have a "paris correspondant", james graff, but in his articles about the CNE, the riots in november, or the leadup to iraq, he just gets it all wrong. one wonders why he lives in paris, he could make up the same stories if he lived in des moines.

a more general example, and one of the best, was was the debate some time ago about the hidjab, (islamic headscarf). it's hard to find a more complex issue than this, but nowhere in the anglo press and blogscape did i see it treated with anything but the broadest generalizations and misconceptions.

[Nanbawan]

Thanks... *tear rolling down my cheek*

[Nanbawan]

next step, hopefully the US market... they have been talking about it forever and 1 day they will probably come back if i had to take a guess... when though who knows... but i would love to drive a 407 or a 206 RC w/ 17 inch rims down 3rd Ave here in ny :cool: ...


Yeah, that'd be nice. After all Honda sells many cars in the US including the Civic. I think a well powered 407 Coupé might have success and a cruisin' 307CC too.

http://arabam.milliyet.com.tr/fuar/2005/frankfurt/peugeot_407coupe.jpg

http://www.nextcar.com.au/i.peugeot.307.CC.red.rear.04aug.JPG

[ilv2]

Yeah, that'd be nice. After all Honda sells many cars in the US including the Civic. I think a well powered 407 Coupé might have success and a cruisin' 307CC too.

http://arabam.milliyet.com.tr/fuar/2005/frankfurt/peugeot_407coupe.jpg

i'd drive any of the 407s.. I also like the looks of the 206 sport

in any case, it's vacation time for two weeks, so i'll try to keep up with the forums while relaxing in TUNISIA :D (sorry...but it deserves some gloating :( )

[guignol]

i saw a 307cc this morning with top up... qu'est-ce qu'elle en jette, bordel! THE BOMB! :cool:

[gaijin]

http://www.bonjour-america.com/

[gaijin]

http://www.sidieseblog.com/