1899 Hoffenheim Thread [R]

[footyfan1]

Did I say something else? :confused:

That's exactly what I meant with my statement "that sounds pretty familiar to me"...





Of course. It just gave me the opportunity to say it. ;)

As you saw, we were no better. We were even worse.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

They will sell out every match. I told people who said they would never get fans that people in that area would show for their matches. And they are.

No matter what club they are actually cheering for......

I wouldn´t speak of fans, i would speak of customers.
They don´t have a fan culture like most teams and they
have never felt the pain from week to week in a relegation
battle, that most of the teams (everyone except Bayern) have felt.
They don´t know the fear of financial problems and consequences
on the pitch.

Footy, i respect the people supporting them,
but for me the Hoffenheim project ´s still very artificial.
And that´s why i can understand people critizising them.

[footyfan1]

I wouldn´t speak of fans, i would speak of customers.
They don´t have a fan culture like most teams and they
have never felt the pain from week to week in a relegation
battle, that most of the teams (everyone except Bayern) have felt.
They don´t know the fear of financial problems and consequences
on the pitch.

So what? That means they aren't fans? Why do you think I said "no matter who they are supporting??"

Do you really think I meant that stadium is full of Hoffenheim fans??

Back before this season started, a few here said they wouldn't draw people to that stadium at all because of their location. People assumed that area was full of just Stuttgart, Karlsruhe, Frankfurt and Kaiserslautern fans. I said that they were wrong and that there were plenty of fans in that area who didn't support the other clubs and would to out to Hoffenheim matches even if it is just to see the opponents. I also said there would be a good number of Hoffenheim fans there too.

And there are.

Hoffenheim are ensuring that by being serious about how many tickets they make available to the opposition.

Of course, I also have to acknowledge that they've had good traveling opponents at home so far this season in Gladbach, Stuttgart and BVB.

I admit the true test will come when they play clubs whose fans don't travel well like Cottbus, Bochum and Wolfsburg.

But so far so good. And it seems that 30,000 is the correct number for that new stadium.


Footy, i respect the people supporting them,
but for me the Hoffenheim project ´s still very artificial.
And that´s why i can understand people critizising them.


EE, this is a general response. It is for everyone, not just for you.


I disagree. In my opinion, the "Hoffenheim Project" isn't "artificial."

It is DIFFERENT and some of you rebel against change in football no matter what it is.

Hoffenheim has simply not come up the way you were taught clubs "should" come up through the ranks and that makes them "artificial" in your eyes.

They are DIFFERENT and so you are against them. It's something akin to "football racism." It is the same reason people hate Chelsea and now Man City in England.

Tough shit. If nothing ever changed, you and I wouldn't be corresponding about all of this because change would never be made.

I wouldn't care about your game because I wouldn't know about it. You wouldn't talk to me because you'd think I am beneath you.

This is change. And to some of you change in football is never good.

And what's worse, some of you are f#cking HYPOCRITES of highest order.

If Hopp had chosen your clubs, you'd be right here with me telling everyone calling him these names to f#ck off.

But since he didn't choose your club, you let your jealousy show.

I was sickened by my fellow BVB fans last weekend. Not just because of the words and signs they chose. But because they chose to sing the loudest when we were getting our asses kicked.

This is not exactly what they said, but it was tantamount to this, "F#ck you Hoffenheim, you might be winning, but we have "tradition."

Well, "tradition" didn't take home three points last Sunday, did it???

Being a fan of a more "traditional" club didn't ease my pain any on Sunday. It took Oktoberfest bier in Munich later that evening to do that...... ;)

They just kicked my club's ass and because of that, I respect what they are doing more than ever.

They didn't have one player out there my club couldn't have afforded if we wanted to get them. They are just doing it better than we are.

As a BVB fan, I can't claim Hopp's money is the difference. They kicked our asses because they had the better team on the pitch that day.

And as far as the name-calling and chanting about Mr. Hopp, I don't care if we do it here at this forum, over e-mail, etc.

But in public while the man is sitting here is f#cking classless. It's not like he cheated to bury other clubs like an Uli Hoeness has in the past.

The man has simply backed his hometown club. Had he done what Roman Abramowich is doing at Chelsea or what the Sheiks intend to do at Man City, I would understand more.

But the majority of the people out there calling Hopp a "Huresohn" and other crap don't even know what they've been doing at Hoffenheim. They only see money and assume the money is the ONLY reason why Hoffenheim is succeeding when BVB itself should be the GREATEST F#CKING EXAMPLE that you can have all the money you want, but if you don't know what the f#ck you are doing with it, YOU WILL STILL FAIL!!

BVB once blew over 150 million Euros!! Hopp hasn't spent a third of that on 1899 Hoffenheim!

But hey, we've got tradition! :rolleyes:

Most fans are either too lazy or too f#cking stupid to look to see what they are actually doing at Hoffenheim.

They only know Hoffenheim got there a different way than what they were taught is right and to them that's some kind of f#cking sin.

Hoffenheim haven't broken any rules, have not spent obscene amounts of money or raided other Bundesliga clubs for their players still under contract.

However, the things I just said perfectly describes FC Bayern Muenchen. Yet, I don't see fans out there with "death signs" for Uli Hoeness.

I don't see fans out there calling Hoeness or Rummenigge "Huresohn."

Why not?

Is it because Bayern is "established" that makes their previous constant raping of other Bundesliga clubs "acceptable??"

Is that it??

Sure, if a club has tradition they can ass rape the rest of the league all they like, but don't let another club make it a different way than what German fans are taught is "right."

Oh no. You can't do that! That club is EVIL!!! They didn't do it the way we were taught.

You really can't see how f#cking stupid this "hatred" of Hoffenheim really is???

You really can't see how this is no different than hating someone because they look different than you, weren't born where you were or don't speak the same language as you??

I'm not saying everyone should like Hoffenheim. But you can damned well come up with a better reason for "hating" them than this "they are artificial" bullshit.

They're just doing it a different way. Just because you don't like that way doesn't make them any less of an "acceptable" club.

If they'd broken rules or wronged other clubs, I could understand this hatred.

Their only "crime" is doing it with more money than most others. Their only "crime" is being fortunate enough to have a sponsor who isn't even buying them the stars he could actually afford to buy them.

That sponsor is making them do it the responsible way and actually when you put the money aside, they are building to do it the "accepted way."

But as I said earlier, most fans are either too lazy or too stupid to look that far. They just want an excuse to hate and do it all their vigor.

You know who SHOULD hate Hoffenheim?? Stuttgart, Karlsruhe, Kaiserslautern and Frankfurt fans.

Why? Two reasons. Regional rivalries and because Hoffenheim are scooping up the young talents from that region that these four clubs once had a monopoly on!

I'd find those to be very good reasons for hating Hoffenheim.

But this "artificial" stuff is "pure" bullshit in my opinion.


EE, now I am speaking directly to you.

You might think that hatred is acceptable, but I don't. You don't have to agree with my point of view and I don't have to agree with yours, but you and I usually discuss things calmly and rationally.

You have done that here again too. Sometimes I can't remain calm or rational about stuff like this, so I wanted to make sure you knew the first part of this message was not directed to just you. I didn't want you to take it personally because I know you are not one of the "hypocrites" or "haters" I described.

But there are others here who are and they f#cking know it.

We can go back and fourth about this all day, all week, all year.

We know we won't agree. With you, I'm content to leave it at that.

I really don't give a rat's ass about most of the others.

[Projekt4]

Actually, I once mentioned the wealthy local sponsor (much less wealthy than Hopp of course) which the village club from where I am from attracted. Unlike what you say that everybody wants a rich sponsor and those who criticise Hopp are just hypocrites, there was considerable resistance within the village club against that sponsor's transformation of what was a club of leisure time football-lovers proud to represent their village into a semi-professional entity represented by people with no affiliation with the village. Eventually, this artificial construct broke down. In professional football, in the Hamburger SV for example, you also find plenty of internal resistance against further commercialisation, sometimes more than I find healthy.

That said, again I personally don't mind Hoffenheim (esp. if they deliver on their long-term plans, nurturing a lot of talent, building a significant fan-base etc.) but Hopp as a now-public person is just beginning to annoy me a bit with his obtrusiveness.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

I don't see fans out there calling Hoeness or Rummenigge "Huresohn."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNu8nebmlzo

Not to counter your points but I think this one bit is funny. :)

[footyfan1]

Actually, I once mentioned the wealthy local sponsor (much less wealthy than Hopp of course) which the village club from where I am from attracted. Unlike what you say that everybody wants a rich sponsor and those who criticise Hopp are just hypocrites, there was considerable resistance within the village club against that sponsor's transformation of what was a club of leisure time football-lovers proud to represent their village into a semi-professional entity represented by people with no affiliation with the village. Eventually, this artificial construct broke down. In professional football, in the Hamburger SV for example, you also find plenty of internal resistance against further commercialisation, sometimes more than I find healthy.

Cute little story there.

When the people of Hoffenheim resist, then I'll care. This isn't like I don't know people in that area. I do and they all (those I know and their friends) love what Hopp has done.


That said, again I personally don't mind Hoffenheim (esp. if they deliver on their long-term plans, nurturing a lot of talent, building a significant fan-base etc.) but Hopp as a now-public person is just beginning to annoy me a bit with his obtrusiveness.

I even agree that Hopp has gone a bit too far with the charging of the teenager, but maybe this is another "change" that fans won't like.

Meaning, this. "Guess what? You can dish it out, but can you f#cking take it??"

The man is simply giving as good as he gets.

A bit unnecessary? Yes. But so is much of venom directed at him too.

[footyfan1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNu8nebmlzo

Not to counter your points but I think this one bit is funny. :)


Can't watch it at work. Will definitely check it out later.

[Doc_Aeppler]

Allright, a few points...

I disagree. In my opinion, the "Hoffenheim Project" isn't "artificial."

It is DIFFERENT and some of you rebel against change in football no matter what it is.

Hoffenheim has simply not come up the way you were taught clubs "should" come up through the ranks and that makes them "artificial" in your eyes.

They are DIFFERENT and so you are against them. It's something akin to "football racism." It is the same reason people hate Chelsea and now Man City in England.

The name "1899 Hoffenheim" didnt exist until 2 years ago! How is that not artificial?!
The thing is that they actually arent that different at all. All clubs would put priority on youth if they were to start over from the bottom and had the financial possibilitys. We did it after our last relegation, Gladbach did it last year... Of course not to that extend, as we didnt have the money to buy young brazilian talents for millions...

And what's worse, some of you are f#cking HYPOCRITES of highest order.

If Hopp had chosen your clubs, you'd be right here with me telling everyone calling him these names to f#ck off.

But since he didn't choose your club, you let your jealousy show.

a) I for my part wouldnt want my club to be a one-man-show.
b) I dont care whether other Fans call any player, coach or manager of my club names. Because I think they dont care either. And I certainly wouldnt be crying about it like that, because that only makes it worse...
c) Im not jealous at Hoffenheim. If I was I could just be a Hoffenheim fan. But Im not.

They didn't have one player out there my club couldn't have afforded if we wanted to get them. They are just doing it better than we are.

Are you sure?
Carlos Eduardo - 7 Million €
Chinedo Obesi - 5 Million €

How many players of that price-categorie have Dortmund bought within the last years?
Or any other teams except for the top-5?
It is a myth that Hoffenheim is not spending big money and it doesnt get more true if you repeat it in every post... For Bundesliga standarts they spend some major money during the last 2 years. You dont have to spend 50 Millions to spend big money.

But the majority of the people out there calling Hopp a "Huresohn" and other crap don't even know what they've been doing at Hoffenheim. They only see money and assume the money is the ONLY reason why Hoffenheim is succeeding when BVB itself should be the GREATEST F#CKING EXAMPLE that you can have all the money you want, but if you don't know what the f#ck you are doing with it, YOU WILL STILL FAIL!!

I dont think anybody doubts that. But it doesnt change that they can only do that "great work" because they can allways spend as much money as they need to... which other clubs cant.

You really can't see how this is no different than hating someone because they look different than you, weren't born where you were or don't speak the same language as you??

Really?? The racist-card? I usually quite respect your points, but thats just rediculous...
Why dont you tell me just how hating someone for speaking a different language is the same as hating someone who is destroying something you love?

I'm not saying everyone should like Hoffenheim. But you can damned well come up with a better reason for "hating" them than this "they are artificial" bullshit.

1) They try to buy their way into everything.
2) They say they support local youth, but they dont.
3) Instead they pull away youthplayers from other clubs.
4) They say they dont spend much money, but they have.
5) They say they build on players from the region, but they dont.
6) Everybody acts like its a miracle, when its not.
7) They are (among others) destroying the football that I love
8) They are artificial :D

You know who SHOULD hate Hoffenheim?? Stuttgart, Karlsruhe, Kaiserslautern and Frankfurt fans.

Why? Two reasons. Regional rivalries and because Hoffenheim are scooping up the young talents from that region that these four clubs once had a monopoly on!

Wow, Im flattered that you allow me to hate them! But I prefer to hate them for whatever reasons I choose... Thanks!

We know we won't agree. .

Well, I can agree on that part. :D



I have to say it again: I have nothing against the "new concept" they gave out. I actually like the idea. Working with young talents from the region. Thats perfect!

When we were relegated in 04 we werent able to spend much, so we built up a team mainly of young players from the region. I never felt as connected to a team as in that time. It was maybe the best time in my "fan-career". It didnt matter whether they lost a game or two, as you could litterally see the guys grow, see them develop... Guys from our parts! Guys from Frankfurt and Hessen!

The thing is that Hopp is not doing that anymore. The media acts like he does. But he doesnt. How is Carlos Eduardo from the Rhein-Neckar-Region? And Sehad Ibisevic? Ramazan Özcan? Demba Ba? Luiz Gustavo? Per Nillson? None of them are...

If he did do such great youthwork, than why do their youthteams suck? (except for the A-Jugend and B-Jugend, who are full of players that they pulled away from other teams)

What really pisses me off about that club is that everybody acts like its a miracle that they do so well. ITS NOT! Its ********ing normal, that a team that is full of players that cost multiple millions will beat many other Bundesligateams who cant spend as much. They will beat us in two weeks, and I will not be surprised. Because we can only dream of buying a player for 5 or 7 million Euros. Hoffenheim has bought severall. And yet people say they dont spend much money...

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

It is a myth that Hoffenheim is not spending big money and it doesnt get more true if you repeat it in every post... For Bundesliga standarts they spend some major money during the last 2 years. You dont have to spend 50 Millions to spend big money.

Some numbers to support your statement:

Transfer earning/deficits (rounded):

2008/09
Wolfsburg: -28 million EUR
Schalke: -11.8 million EUR
Hoffenheim: -10.6 million EUR
Leverkusen: -9.3 million EUR
Dortmund: -6.8 million EUR
M´Gladbach: -6.0 million EUR
Frankfurt: -5.7 million EUR
Köln: -4.8 million EUR
Bochum: -4.1 million EUR
Hertha: -3.5 million EUR
Hannover: -3.3 million EUR
Bremen: -2.4 million EUR
Bielefeld: -1.5 million EUR
Hamburg: -1.2 million EUR
Cottbus: -1.1 million EUR
Karlsruhe: +1.9 million EUR
Stuttgart: +6.3 million EUR
Bayern: +11.0 million EUR

2007/08:
Bayern: -43.1 million EUR
Hoffenheim: -18.5 million EUR (2.BL)
Wolfsburg: -15.0 million EUR
Hannover: -8.6 million EUR
Stuttgart: -7.2 million EUR
Leverkusen: -7.2 million EUR
Dortmund: -5.4 million EUR
Bremen: -5.3 million EUR
Schalke: -2.8 million EUR
Frankfurt: -2.9 million EUR
Hamburg: -2.6 million EUR
Karlsruhe: -0.9 million EUR
Bochum: -0.1 million EUR
Köln: +0.5 million EUR (2.BL)
Hertha:´+1.6 million EUR
Bielefeld: +1.8 million EUR
Cottbus: +2.2 million EUR
Gladbach: + 13.5 million EUR (2.BL)

source: transfermarkt.de

So commulated Hoffenheim had the 3rd highest (29.1 million EUR)
transfer deficit behind Wolfsburg (43 million EUR)
and Bayern (32.1 million EUR).

If you consider the money that was put into the infrastructure
within the last few years you have to admit, that every BL club
(except Bayern (with fincial support) and Wolfsburg) would have a liquidity bottleneck, if it would have done the same.
This is not tolerated by the DFL -> no license for the BL.

[Doc_Aeppler]

Exactly. And Ill say it one mor time:

The thing that pisses me off most isnt that they spent that much. In that regard Wolfsburg is much worse, and at least Hoppenheim gets great young players for it. Its much more that they and the Springer-Media act like they are not spending that much money and Hopp supports the local youth and all... Thats is just not true.

[Borussia]

This is change. And to some of you change in football is never good.


I'm not conservative, so I don't have a problem with the expression "change" in life. However, I don't like this kind of 'change' in football ... so I totally agree with @ Eisenfuß Eilts about Hoffenheim being an 'artificial' club!



If Hopp had chosen your clubs, you'd be right here with me telling everyone calling him these names to f#ck off.

But since he didn't choose your club, you let your jealousy show.


You're wrong.

But let's stop this now, since we have discussed it long enough in this thread so far...



They will beat us in two weeks, and I will not be surprised. Because we can only dream of buying a player for 5 or 7 million Euros. Hoffenheim has bought severall. And yet people say they dont spend much money...

Don't forget they spent almost € 20 millions in the 2nd league last season, what is 3 times as much as the budget of a club like i.e. SpVgg Greuther Fürth.



at least Hoppenheim gets great young players for it.


Ok, that's indeed a good & respectful (and also wise) decision.

[Doc_Aeppler]

Don't forget they spent almost € 20 millions in the 2nd league last season, what is 3 times as much as the budget of a club like i.e. SpVgg Greuther Fürth.

:confused: Thats exactly what Im saying...

[F96]

1) They try to buy their way into everything.
2) They say they support local youth, but they dont.
3) Instead they pull away youthplayers from other clubs.
4) They say they dont spend much money, but they have.
5) They say they build on players from the region, but they dont.
6) Everybody acts like its a miracle, when its not.
7) They are (among others) destroying the football that I love
8) They are artificial :D


Thank you!

[berloha]

Out of DFB-Pokal.

I've seen it coming. Freiburg is way more harder to play than Bremen at the weekend. I could not see the game, but how many penalties? I need to read a review of the match.

Fortunately we lost in regular time and
can set the focus on the Bundesliga. :D

[hackespitze123]

I've seen it coming. Freiburg is way more harder to play than Bremen at the weekend.

Wir werden sehen. :)

Freiburg is not your typical 2. Bundesliga team. Traditionally, they are an attacking team also, and deservedly won today.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

I could not see the game, but how many penalties?

Just saw the highlights at Sportschau.

3 penalties, 1 penalty for each team was a wrong decision ,
2nd one for Freiburg was correct.

Rangnick complaining about Freiburg and their fans. :rolleyes:
He is one of the best coaches in Germany, but also very arrogant.

[Doc_Aeppler]

lol yeah those Freiburg Fans! Known across the land to be violent and rude... :rolleyes:

[sportfriend]

oh yes we have the most violent fans in Germany!!! god i would have done anything to be in the nordkurve screaming against hopp and his slaves shoulder to shoulder with my brothers

well hopp...better luck next year i guess eh! :D

*again, i'm drunk*

[footyfan1]

Rangnick complaining about Freiburg and their fans. :rolleyes: He is one of the best coaches in Germany, but also very arrogant.


That, I agree with. I'm through with the rest of the shit.

[SuperJville]

So how much is Hopp worth?
I'm not very familiar with him.
Compared to Abramovich or the Arabs of Machester City...
And what are his intentions from here on out?
Will he spend big in the winter if he is close to a spot in the top 5? Or is being in the Bundesliga enough for him?