The Big Bad Ref....

[intechpc]

Boy did I feel like the big bad referee this weekend. Had two games, both U12. In the first game, I made two of the players cry. The first occurred during the first half when two players from opposing teams collided on a 50/50 ball. The one player got up off the ground, chased the other down and pushed him in retaliation. I stopped play, brought the kid over and gave him a good tongue lashing. He started to cry on the field and only got worse when his coach pulled him off for a second talking to.

In the second half of the same match, another 50/50 ball resulted in a player falling down. Apparently he felt he had been fouled so he runs up behind the other player who was now in posession of the ball and gives him a leg sweep from behind. Again, stopped play but this time given the dangerous nature of his actions, I cautioned him (of course I could have given him a red but I chose not to due to other factors). He began crying immediately as he left the field and then refused to come back onto the field when his team wanted to sub him back in. After the game I talked to him and explained exactly why he got the card and what he should do to try and keep his cool next time.

Rough weekend, I never would have thought that the first time I'd show a card this season would be at the U12 level. Sheesh!

[whitehound]

Boy did I feel like the big bad referee this weekend. Had two games, both U12. In the first game, I made two of the players cry. The first occurred during the first half when two players from opposing teams collided on a 50/50 ball. The one player got up off the ground, chased the other down and pushed him in retaliation. I stopped play, brought the kid over and gave him a good tongue lashing. He started to cry on the field and only got worse when his coach pulled him off for a second talking to.

In the second half of the same match, another 50/50 ball resulted in a player falling down. Apparently he felt he had been fouled so he runs up behind the other player who was now in posession of the ball and gives him a leg sweep from behind. Again, stopped play but this time given the dangerous nature of his actions, I cautioned him (of course I could have given him a red but I chose not to due to other factors). He began crying immediately as he left the field and then refused to come back onto the field when his team wanted to sub him back in. After the game I talked to him and explained exactly why he got the card and what he should do to try and keep his cool next time.

Rough weekend, I never would have thought that the first time I'd show a card this season would be at the U12 level. Sheesh!
I dont know you but I have to tell you sending off the first kid(which you should have done) would have prevented the second send off which you should have done too. Keep letting players push in retaliation and sweep legs and you will keep losing control of U12 games.

[Gary V]

I dont know you but I have to tell you sending off the first kid(which you should have done) I agree. There are ways to send off a younger player without being a bully about it. Call the coach out onto the field. Explain what is going to happen - that the player will not be able to continue that day. Show him the red card as you take it out of your wallet - you have kept it in you wallet in anticipation of not needing it, right? Then tell him you have to hold it up so everyone knows what is happening. You may still get tears, but possibly not.
would have prevented the second send off which you should have done too.Well maybe, maybe not. Some kids don't learn from the experience of watching others, their emotion exceeds their volition. (I.e., they're gonna get hot and bothered and get themselves sent off no matter what you do to try to prevent it.) The second player deserved the sendoff, even moreso than the first. I don't know what "other factors" the original poster mentions might be, but they'd have to be pretty extraordinary to allow dangerous retaliation without a sendoff.

[Ref Flunkie]

Wait a second, you guys are going to send off a U-12 player for a retaliation by "pushing"? Come on!! Now the second one I could see a send off for (as he stated, he cautioned because it was dangerous), but sending off a kid for a retaliation push is a bit excessive IMO unless it was from behind with such force that it endangered the kid's safety.

[Footer Phooter]

I tossed a girl from a U12 game one time. After a 50/50 ball, the ball rolled out of bounds, at which time she walked up behind the other player and kicked her right in the ankle, tripping her. I walked over, told the player that wasn't appropriate, and pulled out the red card. She then started crying, which made me feel bad. I'm over it now though. :D

[Claymore]

You're lucky the player's Mom didn't immediately rush on to the field and douse you with her keychain pepper spray. ;)

[Statesman]

Why in the world would you send an 11 year old off for giving another kid a push?

Why would you give them a tongue-lashing?

Honestly, yelling and carding teaches young players nothing except to hate the referee. These are kids we're talking about. It's a game. Yes you have to teach them discipline, and yes there are times to card them or give them a talking. But honestly, you don't handle it the same way you would an adult. You need to remember they are more apt to react to emotions and do not think things through.

Instead of thinking about a red card for a simple push in retaliation, pull both players over and have them talk it out. Have each tell you their name. Ask the pusher why he pushed. Ask the other player to respond to what the pusher says about why he pushed. Find out what is going on and get the kids communicating, and then let them know the consequences of their actions. Have them shake hands if you have to. If you really need to bring the point home then you can give a caution. Just put it into the proper context.

Do you really think the parents of a player want you yelling or giving a tongue-lashing to their kid? When my kid was a young pup I would take serious issue with a referee talking to him in anything more than an stern but appropriately authoritative voice when he screwed up. You really don't need to say anything more than, "You're playing too aggresive and emotional. Keep it under control or I'll have to ask your coach to get involved." They see their coach as the ultimate soccer authority, not you, so if you name-drop him they'll respond immediately.

The hardest lesson for the referee to learn is that no matter how old the players are, you still need to show them respect and remember you are there to serve them. It's very easy to go out and bully the kids around to the point they cry, scaring them into submission. But, that isn't refereeing. Be respectful, be friendly, communicate effectively, and keep the game simple. They'll respond, and you won't have to resort to "terrorist tactics."

[oneref]

Great point, from Staestman, in almost no case should you send off an 11 year old kid, nor should you give them a tongue lashing that makes them cry. I have been an official for more years than I care to remember, and I can't remember when I last gave a card to a U14 or below player. Most of these players you should be able to deal with by talking to them.

[Ref Flunkie]

Why in the world would you send an 11 year old off for giving another kid a push?

Why would you give them a tongue-lashing?



Great post. Most kids at that age I have found it easy to talk to and settle down. However, I would like to say that some kids, even by that age, have had such a lack of dicipline in their lives and a simple "stern word" will not work. This should be easy to see by their playing style/body language so I do not like to say "you should never caution/send off a player around the U-12 age group". U-14 you start to run into some real issues with kids playing very physical and by that point, they (through their coaches/parents/other referees) have come to not like/listen to the referee (in addition to every other authority figure in their lives). I have no problem cautioning U-13/14 players for late fouls or something else that deserves a card. By that age, they know what it means, it doesn't scar them emotionally, and I think it does more to settle them down then a "stern word" because their biggest interest is to stay and play in the game and if you threaten to take that away from them, i.e. yellow to red, then they will typically settle down. Now, IMO, this changes when you get up into the U-16+ ranks. By that point, I think more man managing needs to be done to convince them that it is in their best interest to stop their behavior.

[gosellit]

Always remember that Momma is standing only yards away. Think of it this way, she is momma bear and that is her cub that you are towering over. If you need to talk to a youngster, move away from and out of earshot of the spectators. A friend of mine calls the area in front of the parents, the "cub zone." Try to not talk to youngsters in the "cub zone." Even if you are giving him a tongue lashing, keep your voice down and do it with a smile on your face.

[gkeck]

[QUOTE=Statesman]Why in the world would you send an 11 year old off for giving another kid a push?

Why would you give them a tongue-lashing?


A Tongue lashing is a great tool..but inappropriate for this age, as are red cards. If there are challenges controlling 11 year olds ...try some more age appropriate consequences. Body language and quiet words can be very effective.

No need to be the referee that they will remember the rest of their lives, for a red card at age 11. OR the bad guy that makes them cry, and soccer is no fun any more. Personally, I would much rather keep these kids on the field thru Amateur age...the game can have much more positive impact there, than on the streets.

[SgtSlam]

Wow Statesman! Can we clone you? We really need to think about what you said and how to incorporate this into the Referee certification. Maybe there should be more training in the Level 8 class on how to deal with little kids, and maybe even the recert classes, even if it is only for 20 minutes, as to often we don’t see this.

I had a game a couple of weeks ago where I was coaching (U-11 Boys competitive, Travel) where one of my boys comes off upset about something, when I asked him what was wrong, the boy told me the Ref told him to “shut up”. It came after the boy had made a good legal tackle (no call, so I am assuming such) where the opposing player ended up on the ground at the foot of my player. When my player moved off to continue to play, the boy on the ground kicked him, cleats up in the back of the leg. Therefore, my boy turned to the ref and said, “did you see what he just did” To say the least, a bit shocking.

On the other hand, this weekend, we had a guy clearly cut from your cloth this weekend, and it was the most enjoyable game of the year. He explained to the boys what they were doing wrong if he called anything, he joked with the boys about funny things that happened during the game, and told them to calm down when they were getting overly aggressive. Thanks!
:) :) :)

[Wreave]

Hmmm. The "tongue-lashing" might have been a little more than needed. That seems to be a pretty unanimous verdict. Normally, a stern word would do it. However, I'm going to make a rare disagreement with Statesman, and say that bringing the two players together to talk it out there on the field is probably a little much as well. I do like the idea of invoking the coach's authority, though - especially since so many coaches undermine the authority of the referees by constantly questioning their calls.

I have been thinking a lot, and seeking feedback here and elsewhere, on what cards should be shown at what ages/levels of play. At U12, it really does depend on the level. If Classic (or Select or Premier or whatever they call it where you are), U12 players likely deserve the full range of cards. At U12 rec, something would have to be very intentional and egregious to get a straight red.

In this case, the kid who chased the other down for a push, should have gotten perhaps a briefer word than was actually given, but more importantly, should also have been cautioned. I normally warn pretty liberally before going to the pocket at U12, but a chase-down and push would not get a warning.

And yes, showing the card for the first one might have prevented the second one. I would not support a red, but a yellow might have gone a long way.

[refontherun]

I did a U-10 game Saturday where a child was sitting out for a red card. I was amazed. After the game, I asked the referee coordinator about it. He said the child was tripped, got up and pushed the offender to the ground from the back (quite large boy pushing smaller boy).

I gave a yellow card in a U-12 girls game. A quite large girl was having trouble controlling her inertia. She was basically running players over. I warned her three times in the first half. The fourth time she did it, an opponent was hurt. I had no choice but to issue the card. The girl started crying and the coach had to come and give her a hug. At halftime, her grandmother came to me and said I was wrong and she would file a report (be my guest). The girl I carded played most of the second half without incident. I made a point of approaching her and telling her she much better in the second half. I think she got the point.

[intechpc]

Wow, the feedback here has been great, thanks for the thoughts guys, this is why I posted this experience. I really like seeing the different takes each of you has. A couple things to make it a little clearer for you as you try to understand what was going on. The first retaliatory push was performed while also making a play on the ball. He didn't knock the other kid over or do anything really dangerous but it was clearly a retaliatory action.

When I say tongue lashing I think some of you have interpreted that more severely than I mean it. I didn't yell at the kid but I was very stern with him and explained (again not in a heated or yelling manner) that I have to keep the players safe and that I will not allow that type of behavior. To be honest, I think he started crying because of the threat of being carded, not the nature of my "talk" with him.

The factors I took into consideration when choosing a caution (yellow) over a send-off (red) included: 1. this was a U12 game and I was reluctant to card at all but felt I had to, 2. I could see in the eyes of the kid that the second I blew the whistle he new how badly he screwed up, 3. At the U12 level with a very close game at hand, I did not want the card to be the deciding factor of the game (at an older level, this would not concern me much but at U12 I think it is an important consideration).

I did try to do my part to keep this from being an experience that would color the kid's view of the sport for the rest of his life. That's why I had the discussion with him after the game. I tried to explain what happened, why what he did was so serious, and gave him some things he could try in the future to help calm himself. I tried to make it clear that it was about safety, not rules or punishment and I think he understood what I was getting at.

Your responses have been excellent, I've learned a lot just from what I've seen in this thread. My goal is to be the best referee I can possibly be so getting the input of experienced guys like yourselves is very important!! Thanks.

[Gary V]

I agreed with whitehound on a sendoff for the first incident, based on the "chased down and pushed" description. Maybe I read more into it than what was there. I don't see an angry kid running across the field to the other player, and then just lightly shoving. I see the other kid go flying. Maybe that's not what happened, I don't know, I wasn't there. Just from the description I envisioned violent conduct. If it was less than that, then the player should have been cautioned for retaliation. He has to learn that the ref's whistle for the foul has taken care of the incident, he doesn't take justice into his own hands. Else you are creating those out-of-control U16's.

I'm generally in favor of keeping the cards in the wallet for the younger kids. But I will not allow fighting or violence at any age.

[david58]

Great point, from Staestman, in almost no case should you send off an 11 year old kid, nor should you give them a tongue lashing that makes them cry. I have been an official for more years than I care to remember, and I can't remember when I last gave a card to a U14 or below player. Most of these players you should be able to deal with by talking to them.

Sorry to disagree, but at U14, particularly with boys, yellow can be a common color. Late tackles, jumping in studs up, and sweeping tackles from behind were all part of my game Sunday. After the third called late tackle, the kid got yellow. Now, the first one in the match I blew long and hard, talked to the player, and before I finished my sentence he said "Sorry, ref, I know - it was late." No yellow there, and in fact he was my "buddy" the rest of the game, helping me with his teammates.

But the third repetition of a late tackle by another player deserved and recieved the yellow.

The jumping in hard with studs up was doggone near red-worthy, and got the yellow.

The sweeping tackle from behind was again close to red, and got yellow right away.

By U14 premier the boys are sophisitcated, and can play downright mean. Shoot, we have one team that is U13 that EARNS every one of the frequent yellows and the occasional reds they get (a backhanded whack in the b*lls on an opponent doesn't warrant only a warning).

It all is related to the level at which the kids play. And sometimes, the GAME demands the card - spitting, DGSO, striking all should see the red card, regardless of age (IMHO). We argue frequently about use of cards in AYSO (they are discouraged in my region), but the kids must learn, and you can't give a yellow when a red is the correct call - again, kids and parents must learn. That said, I would NEVER give a card at U8, and it would have to be a real mess at U10 for me to show one...hopefully I could see it coming and talk to the kid first. Knock on wood...

Once I gave a yellow in U10. BAAAAD ref. Should have handled it differently. But I am seeing U11 and U12 kids coached to play in a way that cards sometimes DO need to be used. That is sad - I wish I could send off the coach when I see that garbage.

But in general, I try to avoid cards on the younger kids, because they don't often buy you what they do at older ages - the young ones often don't learn from the incident involving a teammate, don't get the message, and go out and be dumb a few minutes later. But certainly at U14 Premier, cards are useful and get used - those boys know precisely what the card is for, and often know they are getting one as they are making the play that earns it.

[NHRef]

I sort of draw a fuzzy line around U12. Over this and I assume they know what they are doing and if its card worthy, they get it. Under this I have never pulled a card but have been able to get the point across with talking to the kids. At U12 I try and get a feeling for if they actually know what they did, meant it and/or knew it was the wrong thing to do. I would be more willing to pull cards at U12 premiere, ODP, SuperY etc, than on a lower level.

[NHRef]

Oh ya, my big bad ref story: Was doing a U10 8v8 game and during equipment check one kid had his socks under his shin guards, then pulled down over his shin guards almost covering them but not quite. I nicely and quietly asked him to switch that around cause it wasn't safe, if someone got their foot stuck in the around the foot strap he might get hurt. He looked at me and said "ok".

Off I went to the other team etc. Headed back to the side of the field and noticed the coach call the mom out onto the field and a subsuquent huddle around the kid. I went over to check and ask the coach for a game ball and the kid was balling his little eyes out :o I told the coach and mom what had happened since jr couldn't get it out and I caved in and let him play like that but explained it to the Mom why it wasn't safe and it should be fixed for the next game (I know, caving in was the wrong thing to do). I felt horrible making this little kid cry.

[Citiref]

Luckily, I haven't had any Big Bad Ref "experiences"...yet.

I haven't had to give any cards out to a U12 player either, but when I could've, a good talking to did the trick and the problem went away after that.

Sorry to disagree, but at U14, particularly with boys, yellow can be a common color. Late tackles, jumping in studs up, and sweeping tackles from behind were all part of my game Sunday.
I agree. In some of the BU14 games this season, I've heard of players getting sent off for Violent Conduct (player shoved a defender in the back), another one for a studs up tackle above the ankle, and yet another one where after getting a caution, the player verbally abused the referee. Oh, and can't forget the time when an attacker went and tackled the goalkeeper (quite a few seconds after the 'keeper saved the shot).

Ah, the joys of BU14 Recreational Soccer. :D