Can you get too close?

[timothy.stadler]

I was reffing a game last night and an observer (Fellow Ref) said I wasn't getting close enough to the action. My general rule of thumb had been to divide the space between me and my AR with the ball in the center of us. When I tried his way after halftime I felt like I was too close to the players and was constantly worried about getting in there way. I watched some games on TV since then and the Ref's seemed to be staying primarily in the middle of the field unless the ball was in the third of the fieldfarthest away from the AR in which case they seemed pretty close. Should I just stay where I am comfortable with what I can see and call or should I get my nose in there?

[Grizzlierbear]

I was reffing a game last night and an observer (Fellow Ref) said I wasn't getting close enough to the action. My general rule of thumb had been to divide the space between me and my AR with the ball in the center of us. When I tried his way after halftime I felt like I was too close to the players and was constantly worried about getting in there way. I watched some games on TV since then and the Ref's seemed to be staying primarily in the middle of the field unless the ball was in the third of the fieldfarthest away from the AR in which case they seemed pretty close. Should I just stay where I am comfortable with what I can see and call or should I get my nose in there?

While their are moments when you can anticipate the need to be close in truth if you are within 5 yards you can not see top and bottom all that well. A player could be stiffing one hand to the face while you see a trip of the foot near the ball! I try to get at angle and circle to the left of the ball for the best look at about 12 to 15 yards away. I go a bit tighter when I see a clash coming and anticipate certain actions to save needless running and stay out of passing lanes and could be as far away as 30 yards.

I loved the way Collina seemed to be in advance of attacking play as it developes and find the approach of being where play is heading to a challenge. In some matches I swear I have Kreskin like abilities to mind read what wil happen, in others, well I suppose could get hit less in the boxing ring! LOL!

Truth is, if you hear advice constantly repeated by everyone then it likely has merit. Still my formula is take advice, add your experiance, their experiance, add their reputation and knowledge compare it to all those who have gone before then consider the information in the context that you do not know everything but niether do they, they might know more than you but they might be wrong too, opinion may be factual and neccessary or it maybe conceptual and possible, it maybe hurtfurl or harmfull, in the end you make a decision and get on with it.

[njref]

"My general rule of thumb had been to divide the space between me and my AR with the ball in the center of us."

If this is true, you are on the far sideline when the ball is in the middle of the field and in the stands or on the adjoining field when the ball is past the middle of the field away from the AR. I suspect that you don't really follow this rule.

[refontherun]

Should I just stay where I am comfortable with what I can see and call or should I get my nose in there?

That really depends on how the game is going. After a few minutes you can see who are the "targeted" players on each team and the basic tactics the teams are using. I try to adjust according to that.

Last night I did a BU14 game. One team had a lightning fast kid who was not that big. He would usually cherry pick at mid-field waiting for the through ball. I couldn't get to deep in the other team's half or I would get caught hauling tail to try to catch up with a break away.

The other team had a couple of bigger kids who were very good at working their way through the defense so I wanted to be close there, too.

Both are situations where alot of fouls can occur either way.

You have to be the judge depending on your experience and fitness and the skill level of the players. If the teams have the ability to switch the ball the entire width of the field, you probably don't want to get too far from center unless there is a potential "hot spot" where game control will be critical. If a team is very compact, making short controlled passes you should probably be closer. Just try to stay out of the passing lanes.

[blind_clown]

Can you see a foul committed on the ball (no blind spots/screens)?
Can you see how play is developing?
Can you see your AR?
Can you quickly get to where play will be next?
Can you quickly get to the spot of a major incident?
Are you out of the way?
Are you where your presence is most needed?
Do you have a purpose for being there?

[whitehound]

"My general rule of thumb had been to divide the space between me and my AR with the ball in the center of us."

If this is true, you are on the far sideline when the ball is in the middle of the field and in the stands or on the adjoining field when the ball is past the middle of the field away from the AR. I suspect that you don't really follow this rule.Surprising that you havent heard of this before. It is called framing the play with the AR and is a very good way to run a game if you are in shape. It keeps you to the right of the ball which is to say the OUTSIDE of the ball and out of the way. You really run an "S" pattern instead of the traditional diagonal. The whole idea is to see the play from the oblique, keep your AR in sight and stay out of the way of play.

[whitehound]

While their are moments when you can anticipate the need to be close in truth if you are within 5 yards you can not see top and bottom all that well. A player could be stiffing one hand to the face while you see a trip of the foot near the ball! I try to get at angle and circle to the left of the ball for the best look at about 12 to 15 yards away. I go a bit tighter when I see a clash coming and anticipate certain actions to save needless running and stay out of passing lanes and could be as far away as 30 yards.

I loved the way Collina seemed to be in advance of attacking play as it developes and find the approach of being where play is heading to a challenge. In some matches I swear I have Kreskin like abilities to mind read what wil happen, in others, well I suppose could get hit less in the boxing ring! LOL!

Truth is, if you hear advice constantly repeated by everyone then it likely has merit. Still my formula is take advice, add your experiance, their experiance, add their reputation and knowledge compare it to all those who have gone before then consider the information in the context that you do not know everything but niether do they, they might know more than you but they might be wrong too, opinion may be factual and neccessary or it maybe conceptual and possible, it maybe hurtfurl or harmfull, in the end you make a decision and get on with it.
Most assessors will tell you that 15 yards is too far away. from that distance your presence is non-existant to prevent fouling and you cant use your voice effectively without being loud. Most importantly you can miss small things that happen close in when you are that far away.

[Grizzlierbear]

Most assessors will tell you that 15 yards is too far away. from that distance your presence is non-existant to prevent fouling and you cant use your voice effectively without being loud. Most importantly you can miss small things that happen close in when you are that far away.
Sorry to disagree! Watch a professional match, the average distance is about 15 yards if not farther! I said 12 to 15 and closer in when players are in contact. If you are closer than 5 yards you are too close if you are there all the time the same as being at 15 yards all the time is too far. The truth is no set distance determines the best view. You vary it in and out. Do not be too generalized on a definate number. Also you cannot frame the play being right of the ball as that is where the AR side generally is. It is taught as left. As to halving the distance if the ball is along the touchline where the AR is you are not 1 foot away? I tend to think the AR has a diagonal line from midfield to goal post near side as his prime area. If you halve the distance a lot father than 15 yards or a lot less not sure is that a USSF position on training?

[Statesman]

Over time a referee just learns where to go through instinct. If you played the game you understand passing lanes and patterns of attack, if not it takes a bit to really learn. You learn what types of fouls are most likely to happen at certain times and then position yourself to best watch for that contact. After many years there are no fouls that really surprise you anymore.

The truth is, the angle and distance that gives you the best view will differ from referee to referee. We'll all be in the same ball park for the most part but never be exact, or even close to exact in reality. We can offer advice on where some accepted "better" positions are, but ultimately the game and players will decide.

Can you be too close? Sure. How do you know when you're too close? When you miss the foul. Same for when you are too far away. Trying to define a specific distance, or even a range, really doesn't help too much. Instead of teaching referees to be 10 yards away, we need to focus on how to identify situations where a foul is likely. Positioning to see the anticipated foul will come naturally as a result.

[whitehound]

Sorry to disagree! Watch a professional match, the average distance is about 15 yards if not farther! I said 12 to 15 and closer in when players are in contact. If you are closer than 5 yards you are too close if you are there all the time the same as being at 15 yards all the time is too far. The truth is no set distance determines the best view. You vary it in and out. Do not be too generalized on a definate number. Also you cannot frame the play being right of the ball as that is where the AR side generally is. It is taught as left. As to halving the distance if the ball is along the touchline where the AR is you are not 1 foot away? I tend to think the AR has a diagonal line from midfield to goal post near side as his prime area. If you halve the distance a lot father than 15 yards or a lot less not sure is that a USSF position on training?Left is correct....I mispoke. Dont go by what you see on tv or you will be letting DOGSO fouls go with a yellow card.....anybody else think that consistantly calling fouls from 15 yards is too far? I know that I had an assessment where the guy noted the distance on every single foul and said more then 10-12 probably means you are not running enough.....less then 8 probably means you are ballchasing too much.

[vabeacher]

Sure you can call a foul from more than 15 yards away. Just ask any spectator or coach, they do it all the time.

Seriously, 15 yards is probably a good measure, unless you're encroaching on your AR's territory. When I'm on the AR's side of the field, I try to to stay at least halsf way between the touchlines. Most of our fields are no more than 60 yards wide, so this would put me or my AR within about 15 yards of the action.

[whitehound]

Sure you can call a foul from more than 15 yards away. Just ask any spectator or coach, they do it all the time.

Seriously, 15 yards is probably a good measure, unless you're encroaching on your AR's territory. When I'm on the AR's side of the field, I try to to stay at least halsf way between the touchlines. Most of our fields are no more than 60 yards wide, so this would put me or my AR within about 15 yards of the action.
what exactly is you ARs territory? The referee is responsible for the entire pitch and there are occasions in which it may be necessary to stand very close to them. For example when the play is close and intense needing a referees immediate presence to prevent fouling or retaliation. Another time I go into the ars "quadrant" is if the keeper goes to ground with an attacker challenging him.......you can count on some level of contact follewed by the obligatory goon(I mean sweeper) protecting his keeper. You need to be right there to prevent the misconduct that can develop. You cant do any of this from 15 yards away.

[Attacking Mid]

Surprising that you havent heard of this before. It is called framing the play with the AR and is a very good way to run a game if you are in shape. It keeps you to the right of the ball which is to say the OUTSIDE of the ball and out of the way. You really run an "S" pattern instead of the traditional diagonal. The whole idea is to see the play from the oblique, keep your AR in sight and stay out of the way of play.

Yes! This is what I am doing now after spending some down-time at a tournament last summer with a very knowledgeable Grd 5. We spent a lot of time on a pitch talking about positioning in various scenarios.

Prior to that session, I had prided myself on my workrate and my "closeness" to the play. What I didn't realize I was doing, was I was hurting my overall perspective by focussing too closely on the ball area.

By running the "S" and keeping the ball, most of the relevant players, and my lead AR in my field of view, I'm finding I'm catching a lot more "off-the-ball" fouls, I'm better able to assess the overall situation in determining whether to blow the whistle or wait a bit, and I'm in harmony with my lead AR's signals. Additionally, I believe I'm being more effective while sprinting less than I did previously.

As far as distance from the play, I don't think you can easily put measurements to it. What distance allows you to see the ball, most other relevant players, and your lead AR? That distance ebbs and flows constantly.

AM.

[bluedevils]

My feeling about many of the televised matches is the referees are, indeed, too far from play on many occasions. Not having worked MLS or above myself, I can't really say for sure if it is physically possible for a human referee to be close to play for the majority of the match. It seems the referees aren't always working as hard as they could, but some of their far-ness from play seems to be a function of the (quick) pace of play. Sometimes they end up 30-50 yards away and there's nothing they can do about it.

Regarding the question 'can you be too close to play' -- as others have said, absolutely yes. Sometimes when I end up maybe 2-3 yards from a challenge, it is too hard to tell if a foul has been committed. What is 'too close' may vary by referee, by situation, etc. 10 yards away, I can't imagine a scenario in which I would look back and think 'I was too close.' 5 yards away, maybe -- depending on circumstances. 2-3 yards away, definitely.