BVB v HSV [R]

[gunner_21]

Hopefully Hamburg will be worn out from a trip to Bulgaria on Thursday.

Currently HSV is 3rd in the Bundesliga with 20 points from 9 matches.

[gunner_21]

Good news for BVB as former Dortmund defender Guy Demel and Dutch newcomer Raphael van der Vaart are both out of Sunday's match through suspension following incidents after their 0-1 defeat to VfL Wolfsburg.

van der Vaart has been on a torrid scoring pace since arriving from Ajax. He has scored 6 goals in 9 matches this season in the Bundesliga.

[jonam]

Good news for BVB as former Dortmund defender Guy Demel and Dutch newcomer Raphael van der Vaart are both out of Sunday's match through suspension following incidents after their 0-1 defeat to VfL Wolfsburg.

van der Vaart has been on a torrid scoring pace since arriving from Ajax. He has scored 6 goals in 9 matches this season in the Bundesliga.



HSV will be much tougher than FCK, even without van der Vaart. And as we all know how we gave away a 3-1 lead against a horrible FCK team, I am not too optimistic for Sunday. On the other hand in recent years we beat HSV more often than they beat us.

[gunner_21]

HSV will be much tougher than FCK, even without van der Vaart. And as we all know how we gave away a 3-1 lead against a horrible FCK team, I am not too optimistic for Sunday. On the other hand in recent years we beat HSV more often than they beat us.

Certainly HSV will be tougher, hopefully BVB can get a little extra from playing this match at home.

[gunner_21]

On the other hand in recent years we beat HSV more often than they beat us.

You sir are correct:

2.11.03 - BVB 3 HSV 2
4.4.04 - HSV 0 BVB 2
23.10.04 - BVB 0 HSV 2
19.3.05 - HSV 2 BVB 3

3 wins and 1 loss in the last 4 Bundesliga matc-ups.

[sting-ray]

I think it will be another draw.. 1:1

[footyfan1]

HSV will be much tougher than FCK, even without van der Vaart. And as we all know how we gave away a 3-1 lead against a horrible FCK team, I am not too optimistic for Sunday. On the other hand in recent years we beat HSV more often than they beat us.


We had a better team than HSV in all those years too. This season, even without vdV, that's not the case.....

[footyfan1]

I think it will be another draw.. 1:1


I think I tipped 2-2.

[footyfan1]

Guys,

Looking at the projected teams, I feel we SHOULD win, but after last week, I'm just completely frustrated with and have no confidence in this BVB team anymore. They are finally getting competent tactical and technical leadership from the trainer's bench and they just don't have the heart and strength to beat down inferior teams who "have the nerve" to fight them. It's just disgusting to me.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1. Bundesliga, 2005/06, 10. Spieltag
Borussia Dortmund - Hamburger SV



http://bilder.sportsandbytes.de/bvb/Pictogramme/dortmund_hsv_x_1092056474.gif




Pertinent Information/Allgemeine Informationen


Kickoff/Anstoß: Sonntag, 23.10.2005 17:30



Location/Stadion: Westfalenstadion (Dortmund)



Referee/Schiedsrichter: Kircher (Rottenburg), Assistenten: Walz (Pfedelbach), Schiffner (Konstanz), Vierter Schiedsrichter: Margenberg (Wermelskirchen)



Stats: Last season's match in Dortmund ended with a 0-2 win for HSV. HSV is the only team to win all it's away matches so far this season (12 points). Of the last ten matches in Westfalenstadion, HSV has only lost four, the last one being a 3-2 loss in 2002-2003. BVB's highest margin of victory over HSV at home was a 7-0 win in 1966-1967. All-Time Bundesliga Record in Dortmund against HSV for BVB is 16 victories, 13 draws and 9 defeats with a +20 goal difference (78 for - 58 against).



Borussia Dortmund

Projected Lineup: 1 Weidenfeller - 21 C. Metzelder, 3 Brzenska, 4 Wörns, 17 Dede - 5 Kehl - 10 Rosicky, 25 N. Sahin - 11 Odonkor, 14 Smolarek, 7 Buckley - Trainer: Van Marwijk

Subs: 30 Gentenaar (Tor), 6 Kringe, 15 M. Steegmann, 18 Ricken, 19 Akgün, 22 Kruska, 27 Hünemeier, 29 Rammel, 33 Gambino, 35 Parensen

Out: 9 Koller (Torn Knee Ligaments/Kreuzbandriss), 16 van der Gun (Torn Knee Ligaments/Kreuzbandriss), 20 B. Meier (Rehabiliation Training/Aufbautraining), 23 P. Degen (Torn Muscle/Muskelfaserriss), 24 Caliskan (U-19-EM), 26 M. Heitmeier (Trainer's Decision/nicht berücksichtigt), 28 Tyrala (Build-Up Training/Aufbautraining)


Match Notes: BVB aren't ulitmately putting their hopes in top goal poacher Smolarek, who scored a hat-trick in Kaiserslautern, alone. Young star Sahin is prepared for his entry into the starting lineup.





Hamburger SV



Projected Lineup: 1 Wächter - 16 Klingbeil, 21 Boulahrouz, 5 van Buyten, 3 Atouba - 6 Wicky - 14 Jarolim, 22 Beinlich - 15 Trochowski - 25 Mpenza, 10 Barbarez - Trainer: Doll


Subs: 12 Kirschstein (Tor), 7 Mahdavikia, 8 Karl, 11 Lauth, 13 Fillinger, 17 Ziebig, 19 Kucukovic, 24 Ziegler, 27 Laas, 31 Takyi


Out: 4 B. Reinhardt (Torn Thigh Muscle/Muskelfaserriss im Oberschenkel), 18 Hampel (Trainer's Decision/nicht berücksichtigt), 20 Demel (Suspended after review of TV evidence/Sperre nach TV-Beweis), 23 van der Vaart (Red Card Suspension/Rotsperre), 28 Benjamin (Knie problems/Knie), 32 Takahara (Flu/Grippe)


Match Notes: HSV Trainer has good memories at the Westfalenstadion in Dortmund where he started his career as HSV head coach last season with a 2-0 victory. It will be hard to repeat this success without suspended playmaker van der Vaart.

[footyfan1]

BvM Counts Degen Out Of HSV Match - May Play Sahin (http://www.borussia-dortmund.com/?%E7%86%9C%2Ah%97%84%EC%5Dj%E6%84%94)


I think that even though Degen has been a disappointment so far this season in my view, his being out of this match will hurt us badly.

Why?

Because we have to move Christoph Metzelder over the the right wingback position and put mistake-prone Markus Brzenska in central defense with Christian Woerns.

I still feel were Degen able to play in Kaiserslautern, we win that match by two goals.

The good news is that Sahin may finally play for us again.......

[jonam]

More or less likely that Kringe will play right-back on Sunday. On first look that seems strange but as we haven't got any other RB and don't want to move Metzelder, that could work out. Still I am afraid that Atouba will outplay Kringe too often. :-/

[HeyaBVB]

2:1 for BVB

[sting-ray]

I think I tipped 2-2.


I win :D

[HeyaBVB]

Another 2 points we gave away


We had a discussion in schwatzgelb.de chat yesterday

with all points we gave away (12) we would have been 2.

[footyfan1]

Another 2 points we gave away


We had a discussion in schwatzgelb.de chat yesterday

with all points we gave away (12) we would have been 2.


A good way to determine where we "should" be isn't to add all the points we gave away, because that happens to everyone during a season. You count half or a third depending on how you lost the points. With BVB, if you count half, it would take us up to 18 points and tied for fourth with Scheisse and Gladbach.

If you add a third of those points, that's four and leaves us tied for seventh with Wolfsburg.

I think a third is the most fair way here. The only "certain victory" we gave away was the Kaiserslautern match. The others, we never took more than a one goal lead, so that happens. That's why I'd say add four points of the 12 we lost.

Dude, this is how I was taught to do it. Again, you can't realistically count all the lost points because just about everyone leaves points on the pitch throughout the season.

I did the same thing with last season. If you counted all the points we "threw away" last season, we would have finished second to Bayern easily.

I only counted four points we threw away at the end of the season that would have put us in a tie for third place. Those were four points we should have won. I mean the points we threw away at home to Bielefeld and at SC Freiburg. Those four points alone would have put us in a third place tie with Bremen, but since their goal difference was so much better, we would have been in fourth and qualified directly for the UEFA Cup.

And man, don't get me started on the number of 100% goal chances that Jan Koller has blown over the past three seasons!!!! :mad: :mad:

[gunner_21]

Just saw highlights of the match last night on the Bundesliga show and damn BVB had chances. Of course the defence is so suspect and who's to say Hamburg shouldn't have finished some chances they had too. Rosicky striking straight to the HSV keeper late in the second half pretty much sums it up. Metzelder's header was a thing of beauty.

[Achtung]

Metzelder's header was a thing of beauty.

Yes it was but he also could have blown the game with a couple of defensive errors.

Weidenfeller with a couple of good saves on the highlights.

[gunner_21]

Yes it was but he also could have blown the game with a couple of defensive errors.

Weidenfeller with a couple of good saves on the highlights.

Yeah you're right, like I said the defense was an absolute shambles. Luckily Weidenfeller has been great so far this season or those 6 draws could be at least 3 losses.

[footyfan1]

Yeah you're right, like I said the defense was an absolute shambles. Luckily Weidenfeller has been great so far this season or those 6 draws could be at least 3 losses.


True. Very true.

However, I also believe this team needs an "a$$hole" on the pitch. This BVB team is "too nice". They don't know how to put their foot on an opponent's throat when they have the opponent down.

This BVB team has no killer instinct whatsoever.

Hasn't had any since Amoroso was on the pitch regularly........

I believe this is BVB's major problem.

[gunner_21]

True. Very true.

However, I also believe this team needs an "a$$hole" on the pitch. This BVB team is "too nice". They don't know how to put their foot on an opponent's throat when they have the opponent down.

This BVB team has no killer instinct whatsoever.

Hasn't had any since Amoroso was on the pitch regularly........

I believe this is BVB's major problem.

An agressor in the defensive midfield or on the backline and a poacher in front of goal (given the lack of finishing this would be excellent)? Maybe what you have in mind? With Metzelder's size you think he could become an intimidating factor, not to mention he's been getting forward this season on some nice headers.