German views on English songs

[comme]

I saw this in World Rivalries,

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6449159&postcount=1

and was wondering what the German perspective was on these for the WC next year.

Is it perceived as being genuinely offensive, or simply as harmless fun?

A UEFA official recently suggested that the English were still the most likely to cause trouble at major championships because of "an obsession with WW2".

What are your thoughts?

[96Squig]

Since we will be winning anyways, at least against England, you won't sing it for long. I don't think it is that much of a problem in soccer stadiums, the problem happens when ppl at the street in England call you Nazi or something like that which has happened.
I am happy that the Allies won WW2.
I don't feel like I lost WW2, or that my country did. my country is democratic. Democracy one. the Nazis lost.

If the English want to bring up WW2, go on, it has been the last big thing you guys won and it will be the last big thing you guys won for a biiig period of time :-P
Knowing that is good enough for me.

[Gregoriak]

We're all happy that the Allies won and the Axis lost.

The funny thing however is that the English always ignore that this was a World War, not a war between England and Germany. To claim that England won two Wars against Germany in the 20th century is false as England would have been doomed if they had had to face Germany on their own during these wars (especially WWII). Without the vital assistance of the USA and Nazi Germany being dedicated to fight the USSR (3/4 of the German army were fighting on the Eastern front), England would have lost.

What is the intention of the English fans? Do they intend to sing these songs regardless of the opponent they face? I mean, if they play a group game vs., say, Iran, will they be singing anti-German songs to annoy the neutral spectators? That would be pretty dumb and rude. If you're a guest somewhere, that would not be the way to treat your host. I would understand them singing their Germany-dedicated songs in case they're actually playing the German national team, but otherwise, I don't see much sense in it.

[SoftTackle]

The English love the wind up. I don't think it is anything more than that.

[comme]

We're all happy that the Allies won and the Axis lost.

The funny thing however is that the English always ignore that this was a World War, not a war between England and Germany. To claim that England won two Wars against Germany in the 20th century is false as England would have been doomed if they had had to face Germany on their own during these wars (especially WWII). Without the vital assistance of the USA and Nazi Germany being dedicated to fight the USSR (3/4 of the German army were fighting on the Eastern front), England would have lost.

What is the intention of the English fans? Do they intend to sing these songs regardless of the opponent they face? I mean, if they play a group game vs., say, Iran, will they be singing anti-German songs to annoy the neutral spectators? That would be pretty dumb and rude. If you're a guest somewhere, that would not be the way to treat your host. I would understand them singing their Germany-dedicated songs in case they're actually playing the German national team, but otherwise, I don't see much sense in it.

Well without getting too much into the history of the time, it is my firm belief (and that of some significant members of the Globalist school) that had it not been for the part played by Britain in the middle part of the war (when we stood alone), the Nazis would probably have been victorious in Europe and eventually the world.

On the point of the actual songs, they aren't just sung at games with Germany, they are sung at all games, no matter who we are playing. They aren't intended as insults or wind ups to the Germans but as a reminder of our own greatest days.

That said though, I do expect them to be sung all the more often next summer.

[Jaison]

Well without getting too much into the history of the time, it is my firm belief (and that of some significant members of the Globalist school) that had it not been for the part played by Britain in the middle part of the war (when we stood alone), the Nazis would probably have been victorious in Europe and eventually the world.

On the point of the actual songs, they aren't just sung at games with Germany, they are sung at all games, no matter who we are playing. They aren't intended as insults or wind ups to the Germans but as a reminder of our own greatest days.

That said though, I do expect them to be sung all the more often next summer.

The war on the eastern front had a much greater impact on the Nazi's defeat.

[comme]

True but had Britain not been hostile, the Nazis could have devoted all their attentions to the USSR, including the Luftwaffe, which would quite possibly have had a decisive role in allowing the Germans to roll through even more quickly and consequently avoid the winter which proved to be the chief enemy.

I hate "what ifs" in history, but this is a case in which there is a fair basis to suggest that without Britain, the whole course of the war would have changed.

However, I wasn't trying to actually make an historical point here, simply to ask for thoughts about songs.

[Jaison]

W.r.t the songs, they aren't offensive, but they do smack of triumphalism. But it's not my place to tell the fans what they sing, let them sing it.

[CanuckFan]

True but had Britain not been hostile, the Nazis could have devoted all their attentions to the USSR, including the Luftwaffe, which would quite possibly have had a decisive role in allowing the Germans to roll through even more quickly and consequently avoid the winter which proved to be the chief enemy.

I hate "what ifs" in history, but this is a case in which there is a fair basis to suggest that without Britain, the whole course of the war would have changed.

However, I wasn't trying to actually make an historical point here, simply to ask for thoughts about songs.

Sometimes I wonder why my Grandfather's generation bothered. Five to seven years and many lives lost over there for what?

[PileD]

Sometimes I wonder why my Grandfather's generation bothered. Five to seven years and many lives lost over there for what?

Other time, other situation.

[sting-ray]

When one calls a German a Nazi.. it is very stupid.. I think there is more neo-nazi (?) in the USA and other countries than Germany... It makes me angry when people call us Nazi yet. We are democratic now and that matters.

[MKO|||]

It makes me angry when people call us Nazi yet.

I think thats the main reason people do that actually. Theres no better way to wind up a german.

[96Squig]

I think thats the main reason people do that actually. Theres no better way to wind up a german.
I actually think that most in the US and Uk do it because of ignorance, the French, Dutch, Italian and so on may do it more because it makes us angry...

[Jaison]

This one always gives me a laugh...

http://www.jigsawlounge.co.uk/kungfu/world/world-dailymail.gif

[bltleo]

This one always gives me a laugh...

http://www.jigsawlounge.co.uk/kungfu/world/world-dailymail.gif

it makes me laugh as well!!!:)

bltleo

[bltleo]

When one calls a German a Nazi.. it is very stupid.. I think there is more neo-nazi (?) in the USA and other countries than Germany... It makes me angry when people call us Nazi yet. We are democratic now and that matters.

I joint to you....I ´m mad as well when people still call us germans Nazi..
it is annoyoing...we are young, democratic and modern country, very open country....I would say we are Land of Ideas as is called the official project for the WC 06 promoting Germany abroad..

Bltleo

[AGF Aarhus]

France, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, England, pretty much all of Eastern Europe, and even Sweden and Denmark have far more troubling problems with far-right extremism than Germany does today.

In Germany, however, any incident, no matter how isolated or small, gets massive worldwide media attention. The reason for that is obvious, and understandable. It's just worrying what little attention the same actions in other countries get.

People who refer to Germans as Nazis today, even if just for the wind up, are incredibly dumb.

As far English songs are concerned, here's something I've never been able to figure out: many German teams (including Union) play 'Football's Coming Home' on the PA system as you come into the stadium. Do they just not realize that this is a song largely about beating the Germans?

[bltleo]

As far English songs are concerned, here's something I've never been able to figure out: many German teams (including Union) play 'Football's Coming Home' on the PA system as you come into the stadium. Do they just not realize that this is a song largely about beating the Germans?

ach, you again.....but it is such a nice song:)......I think we Germans have to create our own winning song..something like "football´s coming home"..
we need german song!

bltleo
Germany

[Germanshepherd]

As far English songs are concerned, here's something I've never been able to figure out: many German teams (including Union) play 'Football's Coming Home' on the PA system as you come into the stadium. Do they just not realize that this is a song largely about beating the Germans?

Impossible. This song is about us winning the 1996 Euro Cup. During that time Germany was feared and the english couldnt even remember when they beat Germany the last time. :cool:

[Gregoriak]

Well without getting too much into the history of the time, it is my firm belief (and that of some significant members of the Globalist school) that had it not been for the part played by Britain in the middle part of the war (when we stood alone), the Nazis would probably have been victorious in Europe and eventually the world.

Certainly.

However it is worth noting that England was protected from the onslaught of Nazi forces as they were located on an island, different to France, Belgium, Holland etc. If not for the canal dividing Europe and Britain, England would have been steamrolled by the German army in 1940 just like all the other countries (*cough*Dunkirk*cough). That is why it is utterly ridiculous of English people today to proclaim "we beat you twice" etc. If WWII had been solely a confrontation of Germany and England on land masses, you would have had no chance.

My two cents.