Carding Kids

[timothy.stadler]

Does anyone out there take into account the age of the player before showing them a card. Although new to reffing I have been coaching for about 15 years and i'm confused. I've carded three players in about nine games. There is no consequence in our leagues for cards other than out the rest of the current game if they get a red. I feel that players need to learn as early as possible what the rules are and how much they can push the envelope in regards to the rules. I've gotten comments from coachs each game saying they had never seen a card at this level but they prefer they learn now rather than try to break bad habits later. I sometimes feel I am to quick to card based on what other refs in the area do or don't do. I just figure if I call them tough now when they are older they won't need the constant talking to and repetitive warnings. Thank you for your feedback.

[intechpc]

I do take into account the level of game I'm officiating when I consider a card. I'm more apt to give a verbal warning first to younger players indicating that their offense is cardable. I figure at the U8 - U12 level, the kids are still learning the rules and may not fully understand the seriousness of what they're doing. So I give them the benefit of one warning and in every case so far that's been enough. Now U14's however, I figure by that time they've got a good grasp on the rules and their actions are more likely to be malicious and not just inadvertent. So with that level I'm more likely to pull a card quicker.

That said, I do take other things into account as well when deciding on a verbal warning or card. Most notably the seriousness of the offense. If a player makes a very blatant attempt to kick a ball in posession of the Keeper for instance, that's a very dangerous action and I'm likely going to card the player right away. However, dissent or something of that nature is more likely to draw a verbal warning first. I also try to consider the events of the game at the time and how those may have impacted what I perceived about the foul.

Three cards in nine games seems a little high to me. I'm not suggesting that you're too quick to card, it may just be that your league is that competitive, physical or whatever. But by comparisson, I've ref'ed 16 games so far this season, all U12 and U14 and haven't had to show a card once.

[refmike]

It is not so much a matter of SHOULD you card them but HOW you card them. If a card is needed, it should be given but the younger players need to be told what they did wrong so they can learn from the experience. You want them to walk away knowing something new and not crying that the big ref scared them.

But all this is after you determine that a card is needed. If a word will prevent recurrance, then that is better than a card. A recent USSF memo pointed out that cards should be given only when they buy you something - player safety, prevention of recurrance or game control are the most common reasons. If a warning will work, even with older players, it is preferred.

[Ref Flunkie]

I have found myself lately at all age levels to use verbal warnings/discussions much more then just simple cards. Of course, this is for fouls that are borderline cards, not something that is obviously late and obviously a card. Usually you want your cards to have a desired effect on the game, and personally, at younger ages, many times that can be done without cards. Of course there are some kids, even 10 year olds, who have had no dicipline in their lives, so they have no interest in listening to you when you tell them to calm down. At that point, I have no issues sending a message with cards.

[billf]

Three cards in nine games is high? I think it depends on the level obviously. You're showing a card every three matches. That's not a lot really unless you're doing micro-mini, uncompetitive rec or travel ball, or u-10s. As you progress, you're going to get to a point where you can man manage all you want and still find two easy cards in a competitive game. If you can get through a competitive u-15 or u-16 game without a card regularly, you're either ignoring everything or fairly lucky. :)

What's your assignment level at this point?

[timothy.stadler]

I've been being assigned U10, U13, and U16. We have so few refs that they tend to assign games by age rather than experience. The games all seem way lopsided 12-1, 13-2 etc. One team seems very skilled and the other teams a bunch of large oafs. The skilled players know when they are fouling and the oafs by virtue of there sheer mass knock people around. I am in football country so most of the parents don't understand I've been getting some feedback from more experienced ref's that I work with finally stopped turning my back to my AR's and learn to go wide, way wide.

[JeffG]

I feel that players need to learn as early as possible what the rules are and how much they can push the envelope in regards to the rules.

That's pretty much what you teach when you blow the whistle.

When deciding whether or not to card, put the action into one of these buckets: careless, reckless, or likely to cause injury. Those buckets correspond to: no card, yellow card, red card. Of course, there is plenty of room for personal judgement here, but that's why we get paid the big bucks. For example, is the player old enough to know what is likely to cause injury? Can s/he even descern the difference between enough force and too much? Is this player (or team) repeatedly committing this foul? And, as Refmike asks, what does the card buy you that a stern talking-to won't; especially at very young ages?

And, to cover my you-know-what, I'm not advocating no cards at all. There are plenty of U12s and even U10s who know exactly what they're doing out there, and cards may be needed to reign them in.

[BC_Ref]

What needs to be carded really depends on the age.

For my U12 and U13 games, cards are pretty rare (1st year had 2 cards - one that I could have prevented with better coach/player management, 2nd year had none, this year one so far for a remarkably blatant taunting goal celebration that surprised me). As the boys get older, cards start coming out more frequently. I can get through U15 and U16 games without coming that close to carding anyone, but I find that you can hand out scads once things start boiling. They can also just be in a surly mood (had one game as an AR where one team - U18B - was in a very cheerful mood even though clearly outmatched while the much stronger team was generally pissed off with the world. Drew 3 yellows for blantantly stupid remarks (dissent) - and in an early cup game setting where they would likely end up missing a game at some point)

In 3 years, no cards on a girls team yet. Although I should have handed out at least one (in a remarkably petty game) but wimped out.

[macheath]

If you are using cards and cautions, with younger kids especialy, be sure to mention it to the coach in your pregame. I usually run through the time of the match, substitution rules, and then say something like "otherwise, straight FIFA rules--offside, no deliberate passes that the keeper picks up, yellow and red cards will be used if appropriate, and a deliberate denial of a goal scoring opportunity can receive a red card." At least you've told them, and they should tell their players.

[billf]

Okay Tim, here's my advice to you based on what you have provided. Take your time making a decision unless its something so obvious you're given no choice. Call the player over and discuss the incident. If the reaction is good and you think it was an honest mistake, explain why you thought it was wrong and suggest the player alter his behavior. Do not, however, promise a card next time. You can hint at this but as players get more experienced, this can backfire on you. Stay calm, be firm, but be approachable. Think about the incident and judge the player's reaction to you. If both the mental replay and the conversation suggest a card is warranted, show the card and tell the player why he's being cautioned. If things look like it was an honest mistake and the kid seems sorry, give him a break and let him off with a warning. The key is doing the least possible which conveys the message and has the desired effect. If it's card, fine it shows that you made a careful decision and explained yourself. If you can get away without it, that's great as well.

[Statesman]

If they earn it, give it. I advocate against jumping to the cards to resolve matters unless it is truly needed at any age level. Remember, it's just one of many tools we have to alter behavior. Younger age groups are more impressionable and willing to obey the referee when getting out of line. When done properly you should just be able to voice your displeasure over the actions of the player, and they will stop.

Only in cases where you've tried to talk the player down without success do you then consider a card. Sometimes it takes something a bit stronger, more visual, and more formal than a simple talking to get the player to realize he is screwing up. Some actions need a definitive statement made by the referee to get the attention of everybody on the field that the behavior will not be tolerated.

It's only in those cases where you really NEED to give the caution "or else" that you do so. The younger the age of the player, the less frequent these situations arise. However, when they do occur the referee should have no problem issuing the card. This applies for all players of all skill levels. And, with every situation the player should be informed what he is receiving the caution for. You can elaborate a bit more with the younger kids, but you should never caution without saying why.

[Wreave]

Cards are a game management tool. At the lower age groups, and the lower skill classes, a verbal warning usually does the job. I have no problem carding a U12 or even U10 player, but it wouldn't be for the first offense, and it would have to be for something serious. Whistle, warn, then card, especially keeping in mind that most young players you have to explain what the card means first.

Also, even up to U14 rec I am very judicious with the straight reds. Obviously, VC is a red no matter what the age group, but the others I'm a lot less likely to give. In general, at the younger ages, a card for a technical infringement (foul against the game) such as delay or enter/exit is pretty unlikely. FTRD should also be an extremely rare card at the younger ages, the exception being a persistent offender who knows what he is doing.

At U10, I have even gone so far as to call over a player, pull the card half out of my pocket to show him, and tell him that if he spoke to me in that tone of voice again, he was going to get a yellow card. It did the trick, he was respectful for the rest of the game, and a ref I know who had him in a subsequent game had no issues with him either.

[timothy.stadler]

Thank you for the advice listening to all of it I am doing OK two of the cards were blatant one of the coachs even said they couldn't control the kid and the other one the goalie got beat at the top of the 18 so he tackled the player. Again thank you, the third one i'll just chalk it up to learning experience.

[IASocFan]

What needs to be carded really depends on the age.
...
In 3 years, no cards on a girls team yet. Although I should have handed out at least one (in a remarkably petty game) but wimped out.

I don't give many cards and 90% are to boys/men. I usually am reffing youth games. The youngest YELLOW I gave was in a GU11 tournament match. This bigger girl on her second or third foul wiped an opponent out with a slide tackle; I gave her a warning and talking to. About 5 minutes later she barrelled someone over going for the ball. YELLOW - Persistent infringement. Her coach subbed her out shortly thereafter and talked to her. She stayed out the rest of the first half and only had one foul in the second half. She was a little less aggressive the second half. Hopefully she and the coach benefitted from the YELLOW.

[NHRef]

I will toss out the flip side, at least here, you must fill out paper work when giving a card. This keeps some refs from giving very deserved cards. What you normally see is once they give one and the paper work has to be done, several come out. This is due to two factors:

- paper work already being done anyway
- they should have carded earlier and things are out of control.

As they get younger I strongly shy away from cards and talk to them, at first, after that, if they don't heed warnings, that's not my problem.

As they get older I assume they know what they are doing and they may either get a card or a strong warning depending on other things in the game (mood of game, how clean/nasty have we been up to now, PI type things).

If they earn it give it to em. With the younger ones, talk to them first, as they get older assume they knew what they were doing.

[billf]

Thank you for the advice listening to all of it I am doing OK two of the cards were blatant one of the coachs even said they couldn't control the kid and the other one the goalie got beat at the top of the 18 so he tackled the player. Again thank you, the third one i'll just chalk it up to learning experience.

A GK tackled an attacker? Was this close to DGF or no? I ask not to second guess but to have you consider the situation again and be prepared for a similar situation you'll encounter as you get more experience which may warrant a red instead.

[njref]

As Wreave and others have stated, you have to take into account age, sex and level in determining your threshold for cards. The more competitive the play, the more likely that you are going to see tactical fouls and aggresive play that require cards to maintain order. Stupid play often can be stopped by talking, but players engaging in tactical or intentional fouls may need cards to deter them.

So, a card every three games might be high for u-13 rec players and u-13 travel girls, but within a reasonable range for u-13 travel or select boys. Another factor is the style of play. I ref in a suburb environment, and the players at the rec level are not very aggresive. I didn't give a single card at the rec level last season or so far this season. In a different locale, the rec players might be killing each other.

So I think that it would be difficult to set hard and fast rules about what your "card average" should be.

[intechpc]

Three cards in nine games is high? I think it depends on the level obviously. You're showing a card every three matches. That's not a lot really unless you're doing micro-mini, uncompetitive rec or travel ball, or u-10s. As you progress, you're going to get to a point where you can man manage all you want and still find two easy cards in a competitive game. If you can get through a competitive u-15 or u-16 game without a card regularly, you're either ignoring everything or fairly lucky. :)

What's your assignment level at this point?

I'm assuming the questions were directed at me. This season I am assigned exclusively to U12 and U14 games. Its a rec league consisting of 8 towns/villages in our area (roughly 200 teams U7 - U14). My experience has been that a verbal warning telling them that their offense could earn a card works most of the time to maintain game control. I've not had any blatant dangerous plays deserving of a card at this point.

I will say I did have one situation where a card definitely would have been shown except that it was after the game (while the teams were shaking hands) and the league president stepped in immediately to personally discipline the kid. I've definitely been very close to cards a number of times, especially in the U14 games, but never had to show one. I have little doubt that I'll probably have to show one in the next three weeks as the season winds to a close and the games get much more competitive, but so far so good.

[PirateJohn]

Here's my take:

A yellow card is most commonly awarded for unsportsmanlike conduct, which can be described as "tactical fouls." These are fouls intended either to break up an attack or reckless fouls that can injure.

Younger players don't really understand the concept of "tactical fouls" so I don't feel justified in giving out a caution in that scenario. I will, however, often give the player a talking to. For really harsh fouls that are dangerous, I am only slightly less likely to card younger players. Again, the intent usually isn't there with young players -- dangerous fouls are typically not so much reckless as careless -- but I do want to be sure to protect the player on the other end of the tackle.

In the end, cards are simply tools, and when you use them becomes less important than how you use them. If you use them as a means of controlling a game, you will get buried. If you effectively control the game with your language, demeanor, and confidence, then cards are useful as a complement to what you're already doing.

[billf]

I'm assuming the questions were directed at me. This season I am assigned exclusively to U12 and U14 games. Its a rec league consisting of 8 towns/villages in our area (roughly 200 teams U7 - U14). My experience has been that a verbal warning telling them that their offense could earn a card works most of the time to maintain game control. I've not had any blatant dangerous plays deserving of a card at this point.

I will say I did have one situation where a card definitely would have been shown except that it was after the game (while the teams were shaking hands) and the league president stepped in immediately to personally discipline the kid. I've definitely been very close to cards a number of times, especially in the U14 games, but never had to show one. I have little doubt that I'll probably have to show one in the next three weeks as the season winds to a close and the games get much more competitive, but so far so good.

I didn't ask to be condecending at all just so you know. :) I think your experience is typical at that level. I didn't have to show many cards then either. Part of that was the play and part of it was not knowing what I was doing. You seem to have a very good handle on things so keep it up.