France vs Cyprus (Oct. 12th) - WC Qualifying [R]

[jambon-beurre]

As much as I am annoyed by that israel-whatever-his-name-is character, I fully agree with panic. Stating that certain Caribbean islands or African nations aren't "France" (in his mind) isn't enough to constitute racism. Personally, I feel that the guy is either ignorant about the fact that said islands are indeed legitimate parts of France (as Hawaii is American as someone pointed out) or is making a geographic argument - however flawed and incredibly ignorant as it may be - that "French" players are only those that come from the Hexagon and Corsica. Racism? It goes a bit deeper than that. I probably didn't explain myself very well...


But the guys talking about these "non-french french players" will always bring you Henry as an example, though he's born in France, has always lived in France and is the son of french parents (from Martinique, yes, but they're french). And they'll never mention Pirès, though his mother's spanish and his father is portuguese (probably rooting for the portuguese NT). Why ? easy to understand ... there's obviously some kind of discrimination in that.

[Nanbawan]

Gentlemen,

Maybe I'm missing the calls of "racism" on this, but he asked a question on how many players were actually born in France. That's not racism in my mind, its just a question.



It's far more loaded than that. It has become a recurrent accusation that France is conducting a neo-colonial exploitation of Africa and it fits in some grueling urban legends about France. The sheer ignorance he displayed with so much confidence is a mirror of that.

And it's the nth time we have to counter those ludicrous assertions, we're not naive, we know what it deals with...

[Nanbawan]

In any case, many thanks to the regulars in this forum for the class they consistently exhibit. Thanks also to the visitors who display an equal amount of class (especially the Irish :) ).

Special thanks for SwissGCZ as well and other classy visitors.

[sl7vk]

But the guys talking about these "non-french french players" will always bring you Henry as an example, though he's born in France, has always lived in France and is the son of french parents (from Martinique, yes, but they're french). And they'll never mention Pirès, though his mother's spanish and his father is portuguese (probably rooting for the portuguese NT). Why ? easy to understand ... there's obviously some kind of discrimination in that.

So true... Or Trezeguet's Argintine parents aren't mentioned too often. He must look too.... white.

[SwissGCZ]

Special thanks for SwissGCZ as well and other classy visitors.
Merci beaucoup.

[sl7vk]

Merci beaucoup.
Good luck against.... Spain. It's a wild guess, but I have a 1/4 chance. Now that we're in, I'm rooting for Switzerland. My dad is from 30 minutes from Geneva anyways.

[Metropolitan]

From the 6 european teams staying in the competition. I hope Czech Republic, Spain and Switzerland will get through. In other words, I hope Switzerland will have to play against Turkey. ;)

Turkey is a good team and it would certainly not be undeserved if they would qualify for the world cup, but I believe Switzerland is far more consistant and has stronger chances to go far this time. About Czech Rep and Spain, well, I would like both to qualify for obvious reason. Czech Rep because I enjoyed the team at the euro, and Spain because, well, a world cup without Spain is not really a world cup.

[Rima067]

Confirmed, From juventus.com :

As much as Vieira is concerned, he has a modest muscular after-effect to his right abdominal rectus muscles. His clinical situation will be analysed tomorrow.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Confirmed, From juventus.com :

As much as Vieira is concerned, he has a modest muscular after-effect to his right abdominal rectus muscles. His clinical situation will be analysed tomorrow.

Ah the butt cramp! :D

[EstebanGranero23]

From the 6 european teams staying in the competition. I hope Czech Republic, Spain and Switzerland will get through. In other words, I hope Switzerland will have to play against Turkey. ;)

Turkey is a good team and it would certainly not be undeserved if they would qualify for the world cup, but I believe Switzerland is far more consistant and has stronger chances to go far this time. About Czech Rep and Spain, well, I would like both to qualify for obvious reason. Czech Rep because I enjoyed the team at the euro, and Spain because, well, a world cup without Spain is not really a world cup.
I'd rather Turkey, Spain and Czech, and yea the Swiss are looking far more consistant than the Turks, so if they do play the Turks, Swiss is going. And who thinks Nedved will come back to play for Czech??
And 2002 was just as much "World Cup" as any other without Holland.Right??

[The Old Lady Hertha]

I'd rather Turkey, Spain and Czech, and yea the Swiss are looking far more consistant than the Turks, so if they do play the Turks, Swiss is going. And who thinks Nedved will come back to play for Czech??
And 2002 was just as much "World Cup" as any other without Holland.Right??

Not if the Slovaks pull of a shock.

And you forgot the Ukrainians.

[EstebanGranero23]

Not if the Slovaks pull of a shock.

And you forgot the Ukrainians.
Ukraine is already booked to Deutschland.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Ukraine is already booked to Deutschland.

i thought you were saying that it was the same WC 2002 teams, and I thought I was correcting you. I think I misunderstood.

Carry on. :D

[MedissiaPWR]

If you've got your facts straight it wouldn't...

Zidane is born in Marseille, France. He has grown up at la Castellane, in the northern part of the city. He's only 14 when he's recruited by the AS Cannes to join the training center of that club. And he's only 17 when he scores his first goal in French First Division in 1989... It was against Nantes (with Cannes of course).

Thierry Henry is born in Paris, in a Western suburb called les Ullis. He has grown up in the same suburb. He's been trained at Clairefontaine's FFF training center before being recruited by the AS Monaco. He's also 17 when he startes in First Division... and he has won the World Cup when he was only 20.

Patrick Vieira is born in Dakar, Senegal, in the Cape Verdian community. His family moved to Paris when he was 8 years old. He never came back to Senegal untill 2003, nearly 20 years after his departure. Just like Zidane, Patrick Veira joined the AS Cannes at the age of 17, and was already captain of the team at 19.

Florent Malouda is born in Cayenne, Guyane. To your own information, that's in France. The European Space Agency is located in Kourou, not far from Cayenne. Malouda's family is French since a longer time that your family is Israeli. Malouda started his professional carreer in 1996 in Chateauroux. He was only 16 then. Gosh, I'm realizing he's born the June 13th, 1980... he's exactly 10 days younger than me !

I'm bloody old... :(
And by the way, according to your criteria, I'm not French since I'm not born in the country.


Yeah let's go on !
Raymond Kopa is Polish, Michel Platini is Italian, Youri Djorkaeff is Armenian, Robert Pires is Portuguese, and of course Leon Blum who was the French President in the 30's isn't French, he's a jew ! Will you tell me you agree on that point with the Vichysts who deported him in Germany once France was invaded ?

good post, rep-worthy.

i'm sorry Eddie, but this Israeli guy mentionned only the ones that didn't look "french" in his mind.
as mentionned earlier, Pires in that case shouldn't be considered as French, but he didn't mentionned it.
If Henry looked like an "European", he would have never mind, as for Pires.

so whatever are my origins, the percentage of French blood i have, if i'm born in France or not, the only think he would notice is my face, and he dares drawing conclusions on it.

i don't think the aim of his post was to write something racist though, but it's easily understandable why some in this thread took bad his theories of "frenchness".

i wonder.. do i deserve more to be called a French than Zidane or Henry, even if i have only 1/4 of French origin. just cauz i look French? so if i was playing in the National Team i would be alright according to this Israel-whatever is his nick guy?

Martinique doesn't belong to France? next time there's an Hawaiian guy in the US nat', just kick him out.

I just think this dude is really ignorant and doesn't think ( nor get informed ) a lot before posting.
Anyway there's no need to get pissed off for that and to threaten to close a thread.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

To be fair though, saying that being Jewish is a nationality is unfair. jews are everywhere, they are a religious group, like Christians or Muslims, and should not be in this discussion. Being a Jew doesn't make a person "less" French.

I don't want to make this too political, but I guess I am.

[EstebanGranero23]

good post, rep-worthy.

i'm sorry Eddie, but this Israeli guy mentionned only the ones that didn't look "french" in his mind.
as mentionned earlier, Pires in that case shouldn't be considered as French, but he didn't mentionned it.
If Henry looked like an "European", he would have never mind, as for Pires.

so whatever are my origins, the percentage of French blood i have, if i'm born in France or not, the only think he would notice is my face, and he dares drawing conclusions on it.

i don't think the aim of his post was to write something racist though, but it's easily understandable why some in this thread took bad his theories of "frenchness".

i wonder.. do i deserve more to be called a French than Zidane or Henry, even if i have only 1/4 of French origin. just cauz i look French? so if i was playing in the National Team i would be alright according to this Israel-whatever is his nick guy?

Martinique doesn't belong to France? next time there's an Hawaiian guy in the US nat', just kick him out.

I just think this dude is really ignorant and doesn't think ( nor get informed ) a lot before posting.
Anyway there's no need to get pissed off for that and to threaten to close a thread.
There is infact a Hawaiian guy on the US natl. team, his name is Brian Ching, and his chances of going to the WC are very good.
And I agree with Hertha, lets NOT get into politics because it just gets childish after that, and politics has nothing to do with Football/soccer.

[fishbiproduct]

By the way, do you know anything about friendlies on our road to the World Cup ? Did the FFF determine the number of games and the teams we'll meet ?

Honnestly speaking, I think those friendlies will certainly be useful as there are still many things to put in place in the natioanl team...

Well, seems there'll be two friendlies only:

_ versus Germany on the 12th of November

_ versus Slovakia next year, March 1st

Geee...this seems like awfully not enough to get
ready for the WC.

[guignol]

Well, seems there'll be two friendlies only:

_ versus Germany on the 12th of November

_ versus Slovakia next year, March 1st

Geee...this seems like awfully not enough to get
ready for the WC.that's all that's planned for now, but these things don't take a year to put together. my guess is that there will be probably 2 more. argentina owes us one, but they're not likely to show their hand in 2006, and that's when the two extra matches should be scheduled.

a couple of countries i would like to play would be norway and algeria (a second chance for the 9-3 to behave like gentlemen)

[Metropolitan]

To be fair though, saying that being Jewish is a nationality is unfair.Of course. If you had read my post correctly you would have heard that it's Vichy government, the nazi collaborationnists who lead the occupied France, which considered it the other way. Those racist bastards have deported the French President which was in place simply one year before the invasion. That's not the France inherited from the Revolution ideals. That's not the France I'm recognizing myself into.

That was just my point. Sorry if you took it in a rude manner, it's clear I was utterly pissed off when I write that post because I simply can't stand anymore people saying that French players are not French. One year or another I hope people in this world will realize that you don't necessarily have to be called Dupont or Maurin to be French. It's been so long it's the case that I can't even understand why there are people who didn't realize it yet. That's all.

jews are everywhere, they are a religious group, like Christians or Muslims, and should not be in this discussion. Being a Jew doesn't make a person "less" French.Exactly. Actually, you can't imagine how much I don't care about the religion of people. It's really not something I've ever cared about.

[Metropolitan]

Well, seems there'll be two friendlies only:

_ versus Germany on the 12th of November

_ versus Slovakia next year, March 1st

Geee...this seems like awfully not enough to get
ready for the WC.Oh boy... it's not with those two games that we would get ready for the World Cup. We would need at least two more. I hope Guignol is right and there will be other games.

Anyway, next game for les bleus will be obviously Germany next month. Do you know if it will be played at home or away ?