Almost ...

[JohnR]

In a U.S. youth game, I almost saw an incident where the flag stayed down when a player was passively offside.

Not quite, sadly. Two forwards pushing up against the line, one left is offside the one right is not. The center mid drops a through ball to the right guy, the AR's flag pops up on instinct, the CR sees flag and whistles, parents go crazy. The AR & CR confer, the CR returns & apologizes to the attacking team (!), and awards an indirect free kick to them. Yeah, that was weird.

OK, so the call was botched. But at least, for the first time, I encountered referees that knew it was possible for a ball to be played legally with an attacking player standing in an offside position. One step forward.

[Footer Phooter]

In a U.S. youth game, I almost saw an incident where the flag stayed down when a player was passively offside.

Not quite, sadly. Two forwards pushing up against the line, one left is offside the one right is not. The center mid drops a through ball to the right guy, the AR's flag pops up on instinct, the CR sees flag and whistles, parents go crazy. The AR & CR confer, the CR returns & apologizes to the attacking team (!), and awards an indirect free kick to them. Yeah, that was weird.

OK, so the call was botched. But at least, for the first time, I encountered referees that knew it was possible for a ball to be played legally with an attacking player standing in an offside position. One step forward.


The first time? What age level are you talking about here?

[Wreave]

An IFK for the attackers? Two wrongs don't make a right. One-sided drop ball, maybe...

We had a discussion on this topic at my NC soccer board - started out on positioning and went on to involvement. http://www.nc-soccer.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=7205

One parent noted that her child's team had a goal scored and allowed on a through ball, played by the onside player, no involvement by the offside player. So progress is being made...

[JohnR]

The first time? What age level are you talking about here?

U13. I've watched maybe 200 youth games over the past 3 years. It would be fair to say that the new interpretation hasn't fully taken hold.

[JohnR]

An IFK for the attackers? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yeah. Afterwards, our coach said, "Just pretend you made the right call and get on with it." But he's an unusual coach in that he never gets on the referees. Ever. Haven't seen that before.

One parent noted that her child's team had a goal scored and allowed on a through ball, played by the onside player, no involvement by the offside player.

I'm moving to Carolina!

[Ref Flunkie]

U13. I've watched maybe 200 youth games over the past 3 years. It would be fair to say that the new interpretation hasn't fully taken hold.

Wow, who is doing the games in your area???

[JohnR]

Wow, who is doing the games in your area???

Actually, we do have some good referees, but somehow their games never seem to feature these situations.

[ur_land]

If it's U13 (or under), more likely than not, the officials are typically going to be newer and/or less experienced. As your son (IIIRC) starts getting older he should start getting more experienced/motivated to learn/confident referees. They'll still make mistakes (I know I've never called a perfect game) but hopefully they'll be smaller and less frequent.

I do know that in my pregame I've been preaching involvement/advantage for offside calls to my (typically teenaged) ARs, as have many refs here and (in my experience) ARs do a good job of calling this. Move to Colorado John--Mountains, 360 days of sunshine, snow that stays in the mountains and melts where you live, and recognition of the need for involvement or gaining an advantage in offside calls! ;)

[JohnR]

Colorado, Carolina ... civilized places, it sounds like.

FYI, this particular tournament was in St. Louis. Excellent referees down there, on the whole. A little weak on the advantage rule, but otherwise sound on their calls and good man/coach management skills. I saw all or part of about 10 U13/U14 boys games, all of which the referee had firmly under control - no wild stuff, no off-the-ball antics. The players seemed to understand that they couldn't pull fast ones on those guys.

[macheath]

If it's U13 (or under), more likely than not, the officials are typically going to be newer and/or less experienced. As your son (IIIRC) starts getting older he should start getting more experienced/motivated to learn/confident referees. They'll still make mistakes (I know I've never called a perfect game) but hopefully they'll be smaller and less frequent.

I do know that in my pregame I've been preaching involvement/advantage for offside calls to my (typically teenaged) ARs, as have many refs here and (in my experience) ARs do a good job of calling this. Move to Colorado John--Mountains, 360 days of sunshine, snow that stays in the mountains and melts where you live, and recognition of the need for involvement or gaining an advantage in offside calls! ;)

And apparently you also have ARs in Colorado--wht a paradise! I work up to high school level in DC, rarely if ever have ARs in rec games. Makes getting offside right very interesting, especially in matches where they play the ball long on both sides.

The confusion in this location comes from varying interpretations--everyone knows that something is different about offside, they just aren't sure exactly what it is. In a youth game, I called offside as an attacking player, from an offside position, charged to the ball as the keeper rushed out to meet it. Not wanting a collision, I called it before they colllided. A young player (also a young ref, it turns out) says, very politely, "there's a new rule, you can't call offside until the player touches it." I said there were situations where you can and should, and she said "Did you study with XXX (the league's youth ref trainer)?" I sent him an email--don't know if she misheard, or he was working from the "uncorrected" FIFA Q&A.

[Gary V]

OK, so the call was botched. But at least, for the first time, I encountered referees that knew it was possible for a ball to be played legally with an attacking player standing in an offside position. One step forward.First time? You would have seen it 3 or 4 times in the first half of the game I was lining Saturday.

But then, someone on the way to the concessions at halftime took it upon himself to tell us refs to please keep track of the offsides, they had trapped the other team offsides several times without a call ...

[ur_land]

No ARs up to High School? Ouch. Admittedly, most of my ARs are teens, many are grade 9s, and there's varyig quality, but I can't imagine how difficult your job is without ARs, even in just the ability to sell a call. Teams must not often run an offside trap in DC.

[macheath]

[QUOTE=ur_land]No ARs up to High School? Ouch. Admittedly, most of my ARs are teens, many are grade 9s, and there's varyig quality, but I can't imagine how difficult your job is without ARs, even in just the ability to sell a call. Teams must not often run an offside trap in DC.[/QUOTE

Regrettably, at the higher levels, they do, and attackers also play right up to the defensive line. It's a challenge if both teams are playing the same way. You really have to hustle on changes of directions, and use every dead ball restart to get into position quickly. I used to tell my wife I keep reffing to get the exercise, and when I get one of those games, the words come back to haunt me...

[njref]

[QUOTE=ur_land]No ARs up to High School? Ouch. Admittedly, most of my ARs are teens, many are grade 9s, and there's varyig quality, but I can't imagine how difficult your job is without ARs, even in just the ability to sell a call. Teams must not often run an offside trap in DC.[/QUOTE

Regrettably, at the higher levels, they do, and attackers also play right up to the defensive line. It's a challenge if both teams are playing the same way. You really have to hustle on changes of directions, and use every dead ball restart to get into position quickly. I used to tell my wife I keep reffing to get the exercise, and when I get one of those games, the words come back to haunt me...

Same in Northern New Jersey, you usually don't see ARs through U-14 except in tournaments. So for the older guys, you run your butt off and give it your best guess...sometimes you are in good position, and sometimes you ain't. But think of all the money that the leagues save.

[macheath]

[QUOTE=macheath]

Same in Northern New Jersey, you usually don't see ARs through U-14 except in tournaments. So for the older guys, you run your butt off and give it your best guess...sometimes you are in good position, and sometimes you ain't. But think of all the money that the leagues save.

Wide and deep and run, run, run. I posted in a earlier thread the classic memo on the "one-man" system, by Giovanni Piazza, that appeared on the socref list. Here's one link to that article--I find it helpful to read over, always pick up something new from it.

http://www.soccer-referee.us/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=2

[Christopher]

Macheath -

Your young ref had it correct, but it is my understanding she was simply using it too soon.

There is a new opinion on offside which I found out about only because I in on a new ref class this past summer. It is supposed to be applied beginning January 1. This from US Soccer.

Still at issue with this new opinion though were some unresolved of issues which had not been given a clear answer at that time - or the answers had not been communicated downward yet. The scenario of the ball being played to a player in an obvious offside position and no other player involved was been addressed - flag it immediately. But in other situations questions remained about the location of the restart? If it is back upfield at the spot where the infraction began, who is responsible for knowing that location - in the lateral or linear? Also, how does shielding become involved if the offside player is not touching the ball but is involved in the shield play?

I was told then that there will be answers available at the recertification classes this winter. That's good, as long as everyone does attend and the topic is covered.

[Wreave]

In a U.S. youth game, I almost saw an incident where the flag stayed down when a player was passively offside.

Not quite, sadly. Two forwards pushing up against the line, one left is offside the one right is not. The center mid drops a through ball to the right guy, the AR's flag pops up on instinct, the CR sees flag and whistles, parents go crazy. The AR & CR confer, the CR returns & apologizes to the attacking team (!), and awards an indirect free kick to them. Yeah, that was weird.

OK, so the call was botched. But at least, for the first time, I encountered referees that knew it was possible for a ball to be played legally with an attacking player standing in an offside position. One step forward.

Yesterday, I embarassingly blew an offside call in a GU14 game. I had one very good AR and one club line, and this happened at the club line end of the field. The club line said he was certified, and had been doing a good job, but I was still hedging my bets. On this one, I had been deep in the other end when there was a quick turn. The ball was played forward from the center circle to an attacker who was offside by about 20 feet. I didn't even both to look at my club line, I just blew the whistle. Before the ball had taken its next bounce and the players all began to rotate towards me in amazement, I saw the defender standing in the goal area next to the keeper. :eek:

Of course, the club line was down the field, standing perfectly in line with the 2TLD. I apologized, yelled a quick explanation to the coaches, then dropped the ball to the team from whom I had taken it.

[JohnR]

Yesterday, I embarassingly blew an offside call in a GU14 game.

Oh that was you? :D

Any CR who knows this rule enough to know when he botches it is a hero in my book.

[IASocFan]

Yesterday, I embarassingly blew an offside call in a GU14 game. ...


I had the same call against me when I was coaching recently. I pointed out the defender back by the keeper, but they still got the call since he'd already blown the whistle! :p

Actually, most of the referees I work with have been calling offside as currently instructed in the outskirts of civilization (Iowa). My instructions and that which I've been receiving usually include: you have offside calls, make sure the player is involved in the play, better late than wrong.

We still may miss a few, but I think we're pretty conscientious.

[phillips10]

No ARs up to High School? Ouch. Admittedly, most of my ARs are teens, many are grade 9s, and there's varyig quality, but I can't imagine how difficult your job is without ARs, even in just the ability to sell a call. Teams must not often run an offside trap in DC.

no ARs in my area either up through u14....I do get plenty of club volunteers who often signal in the wrong direction on sideline calls or attempt to help me with offside no matter how clear I make their role in pregame.

The offside trap at u13/u14 is tough, especially on my 3rd game of the day. I had a few HS varsity matches solo, even tougher on the offside call.