Down with Unlimited Substitution!

[jacathcart]

GU-14 today. I doubt that there was any 2 minute period of the game in which a sub was not called for. Both sides subbed ones and twos and threes and each time they subbed they told player to change position. I felt like stuffing my spare pair of socks on my mouth to keep from shouting "How the hell can you expect your players to learn to play as a team if you treat them as 11 interchangeable blocks and just move them around all game?"

Unsurprisingly it was a hideous game that I felt I was being sentenced to ref instead of assigned.

Of course my pre-game suggestion that they not call for subs in the opponents attacking third or when a player was obviously trying to get off a quick throw-in was roundly ignored.

I guess we have no real option but to put up with it. My usual spiel to the coaches pregame is "You can call for a sub at any stoppage of play but it is my discretion as to whether a sub will be allowed. If you call for a sub and I do not respond you may assume I heard you and do not believe it is an appropriate time for a sub. This will usually be because you are trying to sub when the opponent has a throw-in near or in the area or a CK or because the restart is ready to go before you call. You should have your subs on the center line ready to enter before you ask for the sub. If you call for a sub and then look around for a player I will restart the game."

And of course the worst of the Coaches Without a Clue shouts (after his player has run into the back of an opponent with a two handed shove) "You can't do that even if they are doing it?"

And last week i had a GU-11 rec game that was so much fun I almost felt guilty getting paid. The girls were fast, worked hard, spread the field, and generally within the linits of their strength and size played a wonderful up and down the field game. Go figure.

jim

[macheath]

GU-14 today. I doubt that there was any 2 minute period of the game in which a sub was not called for. Both sides subbed ones and twos and threes and each time they subbed they told player to change position. I felt like stuffing my spare pair of socks on my mouth to keep from shouting "How the hell can you expect your players to learn to play as a team if you treat them as 11 interchangeable blocks and just move them around all game?" (snip)...

They allow unlimited subs, and then at any stoppage in play??? In most leagues, the tradeoff for unlimited subs is a limitation on when they can do it--usually on their own throw-in, either goal kick, restart in center, and one for one on an injury. But not on corners, fouls, the other team's throw-in, etc.

[GKbenji]

Of course my pre-game suggestion that they not call for subs in the opponents attacking third or when a player was obviously trying to get off a quick throw-in was roundly ignored.

Of course it was. If the league allows subs at any stoppage, they have the right to sub at any stoppage.

If you call for a sub and I do not respond you may assume I heard you and do not believe it is an appropriate time for a sub. This will usually be because you are trying to sub when the opponent has a throw-in near or in the area or a CK


How can you justify disallowing a sub simply because it's not the "appropriate time"? IMHO you are overstepping your bounds as referee in denying a sub just because of the situation. If the competition allows a sub on that stoppage, you must allow it to happen.

or because the restart is ready to go before you call. You should have your subs on the center line ready to enter before you ask for the sub. If you call for a sub and then look around for a player I will restart the game.

Now this is on more solid ground. The teams must adhere to the substitution policy and have players ready to go. In this case you can justify denying the sub. Otherwise, no.

Look, I had a similar game today. Green was subbing 1-3 players every other throw-in, and moving players around like one of those "15" puzzles. It got exasperating, and this was even with sub opportuntities limited like macheath noted. I think it hurt the green team as well; they never seemed to find a rhythm (lost 3-0). I wonder why?

[Gary V]

They allow unlimited subs, and then at any stoppage in play??? In most leagues, the tradeoff for unlimited subs is a limitation on when they can do it--usually on their own throw-in, either goal kick, restart in center, and one for one on an injury. But not on corners, fouls, the other team's throw-in, etc.
Guess what? USYS is starting to pass "any stoppage" down to the States, and the States to the leagues. Coming soon to a field near you!

[Ref Flunkie]

Guess what? USYS is starting to pass "any stoppage" down to the States, and the States to the leagues. Coming soon to a field near you!


Just WONDERFUL! I have no problem with unlimited subs traded for it only being done on their own throwins, goal kicks, blah blah blah, but at ANY stoppage? That is insane.

[macheath]

Guess what? USYS is starting to pass "any stoppage" down to the States, and the States to the leagues. Coming soon to a field near you!

More brilliant guidance. Must be the same people who wrote the FIFA Q&A on the "new" offside this year...Don't they have anything else to do? Or maybe they've been infiltrated by national high school officials...

[billf]

Look, it might be annoying but you're there for the kids. It might not be the best way to teach the girls soccer but they are still probably having fun and enjoying themselves. You also can't deny a substitution because you don't think it was the right time. There's no justification. If they call for a sub and you hear it, let it happen. You can be a stickler about having them ready, but that's it. You job is to ensure a safe and fair game, not to editorialize about the way its being coached.

[Chubbywubby]

All true, but if it looks like Red wants to take a quick kick, I probably will not notice Blue's sub request.

[Flyer Fan]

In the league in which I ref, at the U-9 and U-10 level both teams can sub on a throw-in as long as both teams have subs ready. For example, if A and B both have subs and it's A's throw, all subs can come in. If A only has subs and it's B's throw, then no subs can come in. Above U-10, it's sub only on your throw and each team's goal kick (with a few exceptions).

[BC_Ref]

Just slightly farther north (across the border), we also use exactly the same sub rules for youth. Only problem is we have been explicitly told that we can't use our discretion (the email about a week after an assessment where I was dinged over allowing subs at every stoppage). So all I can think of is to "not hear" and (in extreme cases) reporting the coach to the league for what I view as abusing the substitution rules.

The adult leagues are better - they have sub slips coupled with at any stoppage - one league uses 5 - so you can switch players up to 5 times per game (re-entry permitted). Works pretty well.

[Wreave]

At a BU14 last week, I had a coach who seemed to think he had to wait for the other coach to finish subbing before he could sub in. Coach A would call for subs, one or two players would come out, new ones would go back on, then right as Coach A's players were being beckoned onto the field, Coach B would call a couple players off. Team B was grossly overmatched and was getting killed, so I didn't want to be too hard on the poor guy, but after the third such "serial substitution" incident, I had to go tell him, "Coach, let's get all the subs done at the same time - if you wait to do yours until he does his, this game is going to take all night."

I see the value in unlimited substitution in youth soccer, especially in getting players onto the field for some playing time when they might otherwise ride the bench more, but it is crazy to run like 20+ substitution events in a 70-minute game.

Maybe something like each individual player may come out and go back in one time during the game? With exceptions for injuries. I don't know, but something has to be done, and going to free subs on any stoppage is CERTAINLY not the answer...

[NHRef]

I like the way Super-Y does it, subs at any stoppage, but once you are out you can't come back in for that half.

[Gary V]

All true, but if it looks like Red wants to take a quick kick, I probably will not notice Blue's sub request.
Very good, Chubby. Jim Allen had the same answer!

[Red Star]

In the league in which I ref, at the U-9 and U-10 level both teams can sub on a throw-in as long as both teams have subs ready. For example, if A and B both have subs and it's A's throw, all subs can come in. If A only has subs and it's B's throw, then no subs can come in. Above U-10, it's sub only on your throw and each team's goal kick (with a few exceptions).

I like this rule. Isn't it the same in HS?

[billf]

All true, but if it looks like Red wants to take a quick kick, I probably will not notice Blue's sub request.

Of course, there's a difference between not hearing or seeing the sub in time and just ignoring the request.

[DerbyRam54]

One aspect of this unlimited substitutions business that really annoys me is when coaches do it in tournaments to waste time, given that you usually are told not to make any allowance for time lost to keep things on schedule.
I wish in this instance that tournament organisers would add a competition rule preventing substitutions in the final two minutes or so of each half.

[refontherun]

Where I ref, we also do the "own possession" sub on throw-ins. I could deal with it if they did like college and, if the team in possession subs, the other team can sub as well. Even on corners and free kicks. That would help to prevent time wasting by a team that's ahead being able to sub on the other teams possession.

I did a club tounmament where they had unlimited subs at any stoppage. The coaches were told by the tournament authorities not to abuse it, and referees were told to curb abuse. The games I did went pretty smoothly without much time wasting or unsporting use of the rule. I'm sure that probably wouldn't happen in rec.

Last weekend I did a U16B game. At nearly every stoppage I would look to the center line for subs. (I even look when they are not able to sub, i.e. corner kicks, so I can see if anyone is waiting.) A good majority of the time, one coach would holler for a sub after I had already looked away. It didn't really waste time, as it was while players were still retrieving wayward kicks, so a majority of the time I allowed it. I spoke with him at the half, but he persisted with his behavior. It did become quite frustrating. The thing that got me, is that coach is also a referee and that if I were being assessed, I would get dinged for that, even though I was doing the right thing. Next time I won't be so lenient.

[macheath]

One aspect of this unlimited substitutions business that really annoys me is when coaches do it in tournaments to waste time, given that you usually are told not to make any allowance for time lost to keep things on schedule.
I wish in this instance that tournament organisers would add a competition rule preventing substitutions in the final two minutes or so of each half.

Excellent point. We are told we can add time, but then in tournaments (or even in recreational leagues with very high demand for fields), we are told to keep to a strict time schedule. Some coaches exploit this. My only counter has been to be very tough on the teams that are in the lead, and use these or other tactics--like slow goal kicks, switching the thrower too many times on throw-ins, etc.--to slow the game down. I become much more aggressive in warning about time wasting, and will go to cards sooner. So when they substitute, be sure the substituted player gets off the field quickly, and let them know you want the game to proceed. If a team is behind and doing things that slow the game down, then what the heck...

[GKbenji]

I wish in this instance that tournament organisers would add a competition rule preventing substitutions in the final two minutes or so of each half.

Won't fly. Tournament semifinal, tied and likely to go to PKs. I (coach) need to get my PK takers onto the field, so with 5 min left I get them up to half. The ball doesn't go out of play for three minutes. With 1:59 left, we finally get a stoppage, and now you won't let me sub? I would be furious.

[IASocFan]

Won't fly. Tournament semifinal, tied and likely to go to PKs. I (coach) need to get my PK takers onto the field, so with 5 min left I get them up to half. The ball doesn't go out of play for three minutes. With 1:59 left, we finally get a stoppage, and now you won't let me sub? I would be furious.


Or, for knockout rounds, tournaments could allow only one substitution in the last 3 minutes! Additional considerations could be made for after goal substitutions.