D-Day

[topcatcole]

Since we seem to be playing a lot of "what if" games here, what if Ike had decided not to go on June 6, 1944. The next right combination of tides and moon didn't occur until June 20, IIRC (and this turned out to be even more stormy than the 6th). Could secrecy have been preserved? Would the Russians have captured even more of Western Europe and refused to withdraw? Lot's more questions and I'm curious what you think.

[Pilum]

It's difficult. Secrecy could well have been preserved, the Allies had done a good job of it (even resorting to the old Witchcraft Laws, which is quite a funny story). The advance of the Russians has to be balanced with more reinforcemsnts sent to the Eastern Front, though the possibility is there that we wouldn't have as many BMW's or Merc's on the road (and CERTAINLY no VW's) these days.

And besides, Hitler may not have needed his nap two weeks later. One of the most disastrous naps in recent history, that.

I'm not sure things would have turned out TOO differently. Maybe a border or two drawn differently, different dates on the gravestones in Normandy. But by that stage Germny had lost, she just didn't want to acknowledge it yet.

[nicephoras]

Wouldn't have made much of a difference, imho. The Germans were always far more concerned about the Russians, who were always more concerned about Berlin.

[bigredfutbol]

I always thought that, eventually, the Allies would've found a way to land an army somewhere on the coast. Once the Russians got closer and closer to the Fatherland, I would think that the Atlantic defenses would have lost men and material, and become a much more haphazard affair.

[Karl K]

The absence of Rommel was a plus for the Allies; had he been around, there might have been more coordinated and vigorous counterattacking.

But it would have just delayed the inevitable. We had so much manpower and logisitcal resources, we would have eventually overwhelmed the Germans in France.

To me, the biggest mistake/failure of the Normandy campaign was the failure to close the Falaise pocket, and allowing over 100,000 Germans to escape and fight another day.

Had we succeeded in bagging all of the 7th Army and 5th Panzer Corps, there would have only been II SS Panzer standing in the way of the Allies getting to the German border by mid September.

[DoyleG]

The Allies needed a least a couple of months weather in which they could fight in. If they couldn't go at it in June they would be forced to wait until the following year in order to pull off the operation. By that time the Soviets would be well on their way thanks to Operation Bagration (Which destoryed Army Group Center).

Closing Falaise wouldn't have been easy since Monty had most of the German's main units in front of him and was basically hammering away and getting nowhere. The Germans troops that escaped couldn't take their equipment with them, which meant they couldn't mount an effective defence afterwards.

That doesn't mean the Allies would've had a cakewalk. The Germans still held most of the big channel ports and the Allies decided to bypass them to avoid casualties. They would've run out of gas at reaching the border and wouldn't go anywhere faster.

[nicephoras]

The Allies needed a least a couple of months weather in which they could fight in. If they couldn't go at it in June they would be forced to wait until the following year in order to pull off the operation. By that time the Soviets would be well on their way thanks to Operation Bagration (Which destoryed Army Group Center).

Bagration literally dwarfed D-Day. It was an operation on such a larger scale that D-Day had no impact on it. However, had the Allies not invaded through France on D-Day, when they invaded subsequently, they would have met with a barebones defense, since the Germans would have rushed forces to the eastern front. The Ardennes offensive was stupid, but the Russians would have chewed through that materiel even faster than the German counterattack did.

[SgtSchultz]

Operation Market Garden probably would not have happened.

[TheYank]

Rommel might have actually been at the beaches during the invasion instead of Germany, and who knows......

However, probably wouldn't have made much difference considering he didn't get all the men and material he wanted for the defense in the first place .

[TheYank]

Operation Market Garden probably would not have happened.
At the same time, but would have happened eveutually.