It'd be nice if coaches understood advantage

[intechpc]

Let me start by saying I'm usually very good about not letting coaches, players or parents criticism get to me. I very rarely respond at all to most yelling from the sidelines. However, this past week I did let one guy get to me but man did I feel vindicated.

U12 girls league, current score purple 2, white 1, mid 2nd half. A girl from the purple team is driving down the middle of the field about 15 yards from the penalty area. A defender challenges her for the ball and makes a very obvious push. The purple player maintains control of the ball so due to advantage I call play on. From behind I hear the coach screaming at the top of his lungs for the push call to be made and I quickly yelled back "You have advantage coach". A few seconds later after beating one more white defender, the purple player kicks it into the net, GOAL.

On the way back to the half line to restart the game, I just looked at the coach and said "You see, had I called it your way, you'd have missed out on that goal." He was silent but the look on his face said it all. :D

[Ref Flunkie]

Soooo tempting to call the foul when you hear the coach yelling and then turn and say "Well if you don't want the advantage, ok, I'll call the foul"

[Chas (Psyatika)]

I read somewhere that some referees will keep the advantage silent in their head, and when it actually does develop, they THEN call out "Advantage - Play on", and if it doesn't develop they just call the foul. I've been doing it in my last few games, and it's worked quite well, except for a couple occaisions where it appeared i was making a "late" call, which might be frustrating.

[MidwestRef]

The best feeling as a referee, IMHO, is when you call advantage that leads to a goal, super scoring chance, or PK.

The tip about waiting to call advantage, even if it looks like you have a late whistle, is a good one. I'm not sure if I should do this, but I usually tell the captains that I try to play a late whistle to allow advantage opportunities to develop. That way, they are aware that I a) will look for advantage and b) that players should know they may not get a whistle right away.

[Gary V]

Too often, referees have muddied the waters of advantage. Too many of them say, "Play on" when they really mean, "No foul." That misleads players, coaches and spectators.

Case in point, a couple years ago I had a young (probably U10) select league game. Player is dribbling the ball across the top of the PA when he is obviously fouled, but the ball squirts over to his wide-open teammate. "Play On!" And then I hear the coach, "Play On? For THAT?!?" I would have talked to him at the end of the game to clarify the issue, but the coach further displayed his ignorance of the Laws throughout the game, so I figured I wasn't going to give a half-hour clinic.

[Beech]

I just don't see why you guys don't just raise your arm like in hockey when a delayed call can occur. When the foul occurs arm goes up but play doesn't stop until the actual whistle if necessary. If you continue with advantage your arm goes perpindicular at that point indicating continuing flow.

[Ref Flunkie]

I just don't see why you guys don't just raise your arm like in hockey when a delayed call can occur. When the foul occurs arm goes up but play doesn't stop until the actual whistle if necessary. If you continue with advantage your arm goes perpindicular at that point indicating continuing flow.


Ummm, because this isn't hockey :).

[ref47]

and, it's hard to run with an arm up in the air over your head. i'm not that fast already. don't need further things to slow me down. :)

[intechpc]

I just don't see why you guys don't just raise your arm like in hockey when a delayed call can occur. When the foul occurs arm goes up but play doesn't stop until the actual whistle if necessary. If you continue with advantage your arm goes perpindicular at that point indicating continuing flow.

It's an interesting idea but I don't think it's needed. The problem isn't in the signalling, soccer already has a signal for "Play On" due to advantage. The problem is two-fold in my opinion. First, many refs don't use the signal or make it clear when they do. Second, players and coaches don't seem to understand the signal or the rule. It's much harder to find a hockey coach or player that doesn't understand the arm in the air that it is to find a soccer player or coach who doesn't understand the Play On call.

[Wreave]

On the flip side of the coin, a few weeks ago a GU12 coach got on me for _not_ allowing advantage. Early in the game, his player was dribbling the ball down the left side, right about at the boundary between the middle third and the attacking third. She had pushed the ball about ten feet out in front of herself to get some speed up, and a girl from the other team ran along side her and gave her a substantial shoulder that sent the attacker well off line. I blew the whistle, had a quick word with the defender about off-the-ball contact, play continued.

At half, I normally speak to both coaches if I can, and ask if they have any issues they need me to keep an eye on for the second half, or any questions. He said, "Why did you not play advantage? She kept her balance, was going to get back on the ball, and only had one more defender to beat." He had a point, too.

I responded that in the first five minutes of the game, near the middle of the field, I'd rather whistle the foul and set the standard, than allow advantage and have that same defender running his players over for the rest of the game. He understood... but such coaches are certainly in the minority.

[macheath]

It's an interesting idea but I don't think it's needed. The problem isn't in the signalling, soccer already has a signal for "Play On" due to advantage. The problem is two-fold in my opinion. First, many refs don't use the signal or make it clear when they do. Second, players and coaches don't seem to understand the signal or the rule. It's much harder to find a hockey coach or player that doesn't understand the arm in the air that it is to find a soccer player or coach who doesn't understand the Play On call.

Right--we have a signal, and refs should use it, almost in a exaggerated way (you want everyone to know you saw a foul). And signalling the advantage doesn't mean that you can't go back if it doesn't materialize (this won't take too long, one way or the other), and penalize the foul. I agree very much with the misuse of "play on" to indicate "no foul" instead of "advantage"--I've taken to calling "advantage--play on" because I think the misuse has become deeply embedded, helped along by TV commentators and others.

[macheath]

On the flip side of the coin, a few weeks ago a GU12 coach got on me for _not_ allowing advantage. Early in the game, his player was dribbling the ball down the left side, right about at the boundary between the middle third and the attacking third. She had pushed the ball about ten feet out in front of herself to get some speed up, and a girl from the other team ran along side her and gave her a substantial shoulder that sent the attacker well off line. I blew the whistle, had a quick word with the defender about off-the-ball contact, play continued.

At half, I normally speak to both coaches if I can, and ask if they have any issues they need me to keep an eye on for the second half, or any questions. He said, "Why did you not play advantage? She kept her balance, was going to get back on the ball, and only had one more defender to beat." He had a point, too.

I responded that in the first five minutes of the game, near the middle of the field, I'd rather whistle the foul and set the standard, than allow advantage and have that same defender running his players over for the rest of the game. He understood... but such coaches are certainly in the minority.

Good call and game control by you.

[david58]

........U12 coach got on me for _not_ allowing advantage.....

.....He understood... but such coaches are certainly in the minority.

I am generally going to call the foul rather than give advantage on anything that doesn't look like it can immediately lead to a goal or assist (which usually leads to a goal...). When reffing the U-11, U-12, I am usually not going to give advantage often at all. First, the kids cannot capitalize on it, and second, they need to understand what a foul is.

At older ages, I prefer to not give advantage unless the teams are skilled enough to use it - that will dictate where on the field and how much space is required for advantage to be, well, an advantage.

For instance, my high school jv team ranges in ages 14-16, and skills range from not having played since AYSO in 4th grade to regular club play. Mostly less skilled. These kids simply can't use advantage 98% of the time. So if the ref gives the advantage call instead of the foul, he has simply just not called the foul, because these kids would be dis-advantaged. The fouler wins in that case.

So ability has to figure into your calculation, too, along with game control. If the team can capitalize on an advantage in their third of the field, by all means play it. If they can't play advantage, then stop play and award the fk.

My concern with the advantage also extends to how often we allow it in youth soccer - IMHO its waaay too often. I have been taught, and have somewhat confirmed it in my limited experience, that truly advantageous situations only happen a handful of times in a match. Drives me nuts when every 90 seconds I hear the ref saying "Play on" after a foul, particularly when it happens at midfield, three defenders including the fouler are nearby, and the victim still has the ball at his/her feet but can't get a decent passing lane. We should call the stinkin' foul in that case.

And as to coaches understanding......minority is right. BUT - sometimes as refs we do manage to do things that muddy that understanding, and advantage is one of those. But when I am on the bench wearing team colors, you can be free to put me in the "coach = idiot" bin (but I won't holler at you. Much. Well, some. Awww, shucks, I try!!!)

[EJDad]

David58 has it right. Advantage means Advantage- it is better for your team to keep playing than to have the foul called-too often I see referees misinterpreting maintained possession as advantage- especially in the defensive and midfield thirds. Unless a true scoring opportunity is imminent most teams would prefer a free kick. I think we see a number of referees using the "flow of the game" rationale and mixing that with advantage- which leads to the previously mentioned advantage calls when possession was merely maintained.

[Red Star]

You guys are right. Advantage is called too often especially in the defensive third.

My pet peeve is a defender with the ball, facing his goal gets a minor kick in the ankle which does not disposess him. No call, advantage because "he maintained posession and the foul did not put him in a worse situation". I wish that more refs would call that foul and give the defenders a free kick coming out.

I also wish that we could wear short socks as part of our uniform.

[gosellit]

My experience has been, for Classic/Select teams at least, the coaches do understand proper use of "Advantage."

I think that one problem is referees using "play on" when they mean "keep playing, no foul". This gives the coach a reason to question your ability.

Mechanics of using advantage is something alot of referees need to work on.
Make sure that you yell "Play On" loudly and have your arms up where everyone can see.

Another problem I see is the over use of advantage. I know that as referees we do not want to disrupt the "flow of the game." Referees should be aware of the opportunites ahead of the foul and only apply advantage if the fouled team will truly be disadvantaged by calling the foul.

That does not mean that you cannot apply advantage in the middle or even the defensive third of the field. Just be aware of the opportunties ahead of the foul. I have seen goals scored after advantage has been applied in the defensive third.

"Advantage" just another tool in our bag of tricks. Use it wisely and it will serve you well.

[Ref Flunkie]

David58 has it right. Advantage means Advantage- it is better for your team to keep playing than to have the foul called-too often I see referees misinterpreting maintained possession as advantage- especially in the defensive and midfield thirds. Unless a true scoring opportunity is imminent most teams would prefer a free kick. I think we see a number of referees using the "flow of the game" rationale and mixing that with advantage- which leads to the previously mentioned advantage calls when possession was merely maintained.

I also think this differs GREATLY depending on skill level. At high levels where possession soccer is common, any sort of "attack" or run in the attacking 1/2 of the field is considered a rare and good thing. This is why we see referees in MLS waiving advantage if an attacker hold onto control of the ball, even at midfield. In youth matches especially, an rare thing is an attack in the penalty area or something considerably closer to the goal, and rarely is anything at midfield (again unless it is a very quick counter attack) an advantage. However, it must be noted there is a difference between playing advantage and something being trifiling. Someone may be pushed or held, etc, but if it has no effect on play, then it is trifiling and you are NOT playing advantage. Just my thoughts.

[Chubbywubby]

While I agree that there is rarely advantage in the defensive third, I have a somewhat different view than some of the other posters about applying advantage in the middle of the field, when no imminent GSO exists, or with younger/less skilled teams. Remember, we are to play on if it would be advantageous to the infringing team if we stopped play -- not just if it would be advantageous to the team that was fouled if we play on. In the vast majority of cases, with the younger and less skilled teams, everybody on the pitch stops dead in their tracks when we blow the whistle and there is no quick kick to an attacker continuing his run off the ball. Instead, the kicker moves the ball back a yard and a half, waits for his teammates to get in position, raises his arm, etc. etc., then puts the ball 5 yards over the crossbar. Meanwhile, the defenders have hustled back into position, formed a wall, and picked up their marks. How is this advantageous to the team that was fouled? If, OTOH, I play advantage while the defenders are still numbers down and out of position, the attackers will often be able to put together a much more threatening attack, even if it was not obvious at the time of the foul that they would be able to do so.

[intechpc]

I also think this differs GREATLY depending on skill level. At high levels where possession soccer is common, any sort of "attack" or run in the attacking 1/2 of the field is considered a rare and good thing. This is why we see referees in MLS waiving advantage if an attacker hold onto control of the ball, even at midfield. In youth matches especially, an rare thing is an attack in the penalty area or something considerably closer to the goal, and rarely is anything at midfield (again unless it is a very quick counter attack) an advantage. However, it must be noted there is a difference between playing advantage and something being trifiling. Someone may be pushed or held, etc, but if it has no effect on play, then it is trifiling and you are NOT playing advantage. Just my thoughts.

To be honest, at the U12 and U14 level that I referee for, I'm less likely to call advantage in the penalty area. Unless they're cleared of the defenders (1 on 1 with the GK) or a similar situation, I think the penalty kick is much more adventageous. However, I do know what your point is and overall I agree with it. I'm much less likely to call advantage when they're on their defensive half because at that level there is little chance of it turning into a goal.

[pasoccerdave]

I'm quite enjoying this thread. As a new referee, I'm still learning when to call a foul, and when to let the players play. My tendency is to let the players continue, without interfering too much in the flow of the game.

Last weekend I ran my third centered game, and first without ARs (U11B). It was a decent game, and I think my mistakes were scattered evenly for both sides. After the game, the (winning) coach thanked me for a good game, then commented that he had to explain to his parents what "advantage" is.