Best Striker in the World now

[Twix]

Ok I'll try to sort this out for you guys.

I would include Messi, IMO, because his prefferred position is striker/forward. that was the positon he played with Barca's Reserves,Argentina YNT, still mostly plays with their senior national team and plays there occasionally with Barca. therefore I would include him in this discussion.



And C. Ronaldo is not a forward you see, because he consisently plays on the wing. He plays on the wing for Man Utd. He plays on the wing for Portugal and too my knowledge(I could be wrong here) when fergie brought him in from Lisbon he was a winger there as well. Therefore he does not belong in this discussion, no matter if you think he plays like a forward.

.

Teso and I as Manchester United fans have came to the same conclusion that Ronaldo is a wingforward yet you dispute this?

'll take it at face value that I have watched Ronaldo more times than you as I know he's not "consistently played on the wing". He is a forward playing on the wing.

If you have only watched him in high profile games like Milan, Liverpool etc. then you are right in stating he is a winger but his usual position is wing forward. Anyways if you are including Messi because his preferred position is striker/forward than surely Ronaldo should be included on the same criteria.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Ronaldo is not a winger and does not play like a winger. He's at his best when given the freedom to push forward. He has this freedom for both Portugal and Man Utd. The only reason he was originally used on the wing for Man Utd was because Ferguson did not believe he was physically ready to go up against Premiership central defenders. He now is and his role has changed as a direct result. You need to note that players are dynamic and positions are nominal. The only difference between Messi and Ronaldo is that the latter has more defensive responsibility and therefore starts slightly further back.

Teso, you post a lot but I don't recall you putting up a name for debate..

Which striker do you reckon right now is better than Santa Cruz (excluding Ronaldo)?

I've already stated in this thread that my top three are Van Nistelrooy, Ibrahimovic and Eto'o.

[Twix]

I've already stated in this thread that my top three are Van Nistelrooy, Ibrahimovic and Eto'o.

Damn, can't really dispute that as they're all class.

Good choice.

[Hyuuga Neji]

Ok, guys here I go.
Teso and I as Manchester United fans have came to the same conclusion that Ronaldo is a wingforward yet you dispute this?

'll take it at face value that I have watched Ronaldo more times than you as I know he's not "consistently played on the wing". He is a forward playing on the wing.

If you have only watched him in high profile games like Milan, Liverpool etc. then you are right in stating he is a winger but his usual position is wing forward. Anyways if you are including Messi because his preferred position is striker/forward than surely Ronaldo should be included on the same criteria.
Refer to the statement that I put in bold, he plays on the wing, you have admitted it. As to Messi he plays on the wing and up top but I believe his preferred position is forward.

Ronaldo is not a winger and does not play like a winger. He's at his best when given the freedom to push forward. He has this freedom for both Portugal and Man Utd. The only reason he was originally used on the wing for Man Utd was because Ferguson did not believe he was physically ready to go up against Premiership central defenders. He now is and his role has changed as a direct result. You need to note that players are dynamic and positions are nominal. The only difference between Messi and Ronaldo is that the latter has more defensive responsibility and therefore starts slightly further back.

I've already stated in this thread that my top three are Van Nistelrooy, Ibrahimovic and Eto'o.

Your opinion is that he plays like a forward. While I agree with this opinion, I use facts in my arguments.The fact is that, while he may play like a forward, he actually plays on the wing therefore he is a winger because that is where he lines up at the start of each match.

[Twix]

Ok, guys here I go.

Refer to the statement that I put in bold, he plays on the wing, you have admitted it. As to Messi he plays on the wing and up top but I believe his preferred position is forward.



FYI Ronaldo played up top in the second half against Liverpool.

You talk of facts but you have said nothing to prove Messi's "preferred position is forward". According to your criteria, there is no reason why Messi should be included over Ronaldo.

Anyways I said Ronaldo is a wing forward and you agreed so what's the problem?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I'll say it again. You need to note that players are dynamic and positions are nominal. What a line-up looks like on paper is irrelevant.

[Hyuuga Neji]

I'll say it again. You need to note that players are dynamic and positions are nominal. What a line-up looks like on paper is irrelevant.
I hear you, but politely disagree. while positions are fairly nominal, especially among midfielders they are positions nontheless. You don't see Rio Ferdinand on the wing for a reason. Ronaldo plays on the wing, therefore is a winger. i have addressed the fact that he plays like a forward previously.

FYI Ronaldo played up top in the second half against Liverpool.

You talk of facts but you have said nothing to prove Messi's "preferred position is forward". According to your criteria, there is no reason why Messi should be included over Ronaldo.

Anyways I said Ronaldo is a wing forward and you agreed so what's the problem?

Messi was a striker until he began to break into Barcelona. He then got played on the wing because it is extremely diffficult to break the Barca team as a forward and because he is short and quick, with good ball skills. it is equally difficult to break into the Argentina national side so he played a bit of wing-forward along with striker.

[Twix]

Messi was a striker until he began to break into Barcelona. He then got played on the wing because it is extremely diffficult to break the Barca team as a forward and because he is short and quick, with good ball skills. it is equally difficult to break into the Argentina national side so he played a bit of wing-forward along with striker.

You seem to have veered offtopic...

My concern is not with Messi but with Ronaldo. Why should Messi be included into these lists and Ronaldo shouldn't?

[Hyuuga Neji]

You seem to have veered offtopic...

My concern is not with Messi but with Ronaldo. Why should Messi be included into these lists and Ronaldo shouldn't?

Because Messi has played striker and still occasionally does and Ronaldo does not (to my knowledge) and has not in the past.

As for the offtopic bit, I suppose you were just sitting on your hands helpless as this thread got offtopic.:rolleyes:

[Dr. Know]

Messi was a striker until he began to break into Barcelona. He then got played on the wing because it is extremely diffficult to break the Barca team as a forward and because he is short and quick, with good ball skills. it is equally difficult to break into the Argentina national side so he played a bit of wing-forward along with striker.

Actually Messi was more of a #10. I believe it's the position he played with Barca B and it's the position he played with Argentina in the U-20 WC. At Barca they started playing him on the wing but with Argentina he plays as a support forward.

[Hyuuga Neji]

Actually Messi was more of a #10. I believe it's the position he played with Barca B and it's the position he played with Argentina in the U-20 WC. At Barca they started playing him on the wing but with Argentina he plays as a support forward.
Thank you for that. The term I was meaning and should've used was "forward."

[Twix]

Because Messi has played striker and still occasionally does and Ronaldo does not (to my knowledge) and has not in the past.

Go back and read my posts. I picked out one instance of when Ronaldo played striker and that was in the second half of the Liverpool game this season. Tell me in what matches this season has Messi played 'up top'.

Where Messi played in the past is irrelevant. Paul Scholes used to be a striker, does that mean he deserves inclusion to this thread as well?

You are being selective in your criteria and you still haven't given a concrete reason why Messi should be included in this thread while Ronaldo shouldn't

As for the offtopic bit, I suppose you were just sitting on your hands helpless as this thread got offtopic.:rolleyes:

Funny guy.

[Dr. Know]

Tell me in what matches this season has Messi played 'up top'.


Every single Argentina match since Copa America.

[Hyuuga Neji]

Go back and read my posts. I picked out one instance of when Ronaldo played striker and that was in the second half of the Liverpool game this season. Tell me in what matches this season has Messi played 'up top'.

Where Messi played in the past is irrelevant. Paul Scholes used to be a striker, does that mean he deserves inclusion to this thread as well?

You are being selective in your criteria and you still haven't given a concrete reason why Messi should be included in this thread while Ronaldo shouldn't
Funny guy.

As I'm not a Barca follower, I can't pick out particular instances where he has played forward. He has, however, played forward for Argentina this year which i know for a fact.

And don't get pissed at me for making the sarcastic remark, honestly how have I been any more guilty than you in getting this offtopic?

[Hyuuga Neji]

Every single Argentina match since Copa America.
Rep for you. I need back up against these Man Utd. posters.

[rochester rhinos]

Im not saying Francesco Totti is the best striker in the world actually... I am, he won the golden boot dosent that count for something, Totti over Zlatan Eto and RVN please...If anything he should be number one on that list if were going from recent performances.http://footyfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/totti_and_golden_boot.jpg

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I hear you, but politely disagree. while positions are fairly nominal, especially among midfielders they are positions nontheless. You don't see Rio Ferdinand on the wing for a reason. Ronaldo plays on the wing, therefore is a winger. i have addressed the fact that he plays like a forward previously.

A stupid comparison but not unexpected. You cannot have it both ways. Either you accept that players are dynamic and positions are nominal or you don't. You either accept Messi and Ronaldo or you discount both. That is all I have even said throughout the discussion.

Im not saying Francesco Totti is the best striker in the world actually... I am, he won the golden boot dosent that count for something, Totti over Zlatan Eto and RVN please...If anything he should be number one on that list if were going from recent performances.

A quick search will tell you what I think about Totti. Despite his role in Roma's system I don't personally consider him to be a striker. Of course, if we are including forwards like Messi et al then he would obviously merit inclusion and rank very highly in my list.

[Twix]

As I'm not a Barca follower, I can't pick out particular instances where he has played forward. He has, however, played forward for Argentina this year which i know for a fact.

That's all fine and good but how does that detract from Ronaldo if they have both played up forward this season?

And don't get pissed at me for making the sarcastic remark, honestly how have I been any more guilty than you in getting this offtopic?

That was because you started talking about Messi's career and how hard it is to break into Barca and Argentina and I didn't really think it was neccessary.

[rochester rhinos]

A stupid comparison but not unexpected. You cannot have it both ways. Either you accept that players are dynamic and positions are nominal or you don't. You either accept Messi and Ronaldo or you discount both. That is all I have even said throughout the discussion.



A quick search will tell you what I think about Totti. Despite his role in Roma's system I don't personally consider him to be a striker. Of course, if we are including forwards like Messi et al then he would obviously merit inclusion and rank very highly in my list.Totti des not play FW but STK hes always the most andvanced player on the field.FRancesco plays sometimes even as a lone STK. Totti was moved from MID to STK not FW the difference is that a FW will paly with 2 or more players supporting or a Trequartista behind them which is Tottis original position also a FW has to get back and cover like a MID Totti does none of these.When Spalleti got to Roma he moved Totti to out and out STK for 3 reason 1 he didnt have enough quality STKS at the time.2 Totti dosent have to cover around the field and gas himslef as heuse to and finally To make better use of his Finishing/Goalscoring. While yes he does create for is teammates more than most STKs do this is because hes Totti and not because he plays FWD beccause most of the time hes enployed as a STK.

[Hyuuga Neji]

A stupid comparison but not unexpected. You cannot have it both ways. Either you accept that players are dynamic and positions are nominal or you don't. You either accept Messi and Ronaldo or you discount both. That is all I have even said throughout the discussion.

Positions are only nominal to a degree. C.Ronaldo, for instance has the freedom to be many places on the pitch yet he can not start playing on Gigg's side during the game without the permission of the manager or agreeing upon it with Giggs. Upon the same lines, if Rio Ferdinand is playing centerback he can not cherry pick up top.
I can have it both ways because I'm under the assumption we're including support strikers, no.10's if you will. Messi is a withdrawn striker whereas Ronaldo is a winger.
And I'd appreciate it if you refrain from calling any of my comments or comparisons "stupid". It reflects badly upon yourself and looks immature if you can't even disagree respectfully.