South America Grand Theft Issue

[biosoccer]

Originally posted by Doctor Stamen
Or invite Monserrat :).
If you are going to invite Monserrat, you MUST invite Bhutan, too! :D

[Crazy_Yank]

Originally posted by Rafael Hernandez
Past sucess? Like getting 4 out of 5 teams to the second round in France 98? Or winning the WC this year?

What does 98 have to do with anything? This year (2002) only Brazil did anything. Ecuador and Uruguay hardly impressed. Argentina flopped big time. Paraguay was decent, but not all that great.

[CHILENOOO]

Offcourse I'm BIOS...

I'm SA, Chilean, and due to two decisions this year, my country is in danger of not making the world cup again....We do play Brazil and Argentina (two of the world best...if not THE best) in order to qualify....
The reality is that there are 2 REAL spots in SA for 8 Teams....you don't see Brazilians and Argentineans too worried....because their spot is almost a given....
However there is a lot of GREAT competition among those 8 teams....and all of them can beat anybody at anygiven time....including "power houses" like Italy and England....

The two decisions that were against SA and our spots...

1) Brazil will need to qualify as WC Champ. (-1 spot)
2) Australia gets to the WC with a "FREE" pass...(because pigs will fly before they are defeated by New Zealand) -1 spot...

Instead of 6 spots like we would of have....we are only going to have 4....
And like somebody said....that sucks and nobody can do anything about it. (BUT complain)

[pololo]

Originally posted by CHILENOOO
Offcourse I'm BIOS...

I'm SA, Chilean, and due to two decisions this year, my country is in danger of not making the world cup again....We do play Brazil and Argentina (two of the world best...if not THE best) in order to qualify....
The reality is that there are 2 REAL spots in SA for 8 Teams....you don't see Brazilians and Argentineans too worried....because their spot is almost a given....
However there is a lot of GREAT competition among those 8 teams....and all of them can beat anybody at anygiven time....including "power houses" like Italy and England....

The two decisions that were against SA and our spots...

1) Brazil will need to qualify as WC Champ. (-1 spot)
2) Australia gets to the WC with a "FREE" pass...(because pigs will fly before they are defeated by New Zealand) -1 spot...

Instead of 6 spots like we would of have....we are only going to have 4....
And like somebody said....that sucks and nobody can do anything about it. (BUT complain)

Even Brazil have hard times to qualify,no team in SOuth America really respect each other and it's a tough league.

[Rafael Hernandez]

Originally posted by Crazy_Yank
What does 98 have to do with anything? This year (2002) only Brazil did anything. Ecuador and Uruguay hardly impressed. Argentina flopped big time. Paraguay was decent, but not all that great.


What does 98 have to do? Its the before last freaking cup!!! One bad WC and suddenly they deserve to lose a spot?? If that were the case then CONCACAF would be screwed since the US was last in France and Africa wouldn't still be riding high from Cameroon in 90. But I forget than maybe we shouldn't pick from things like 98 that was just 4 freaking years ago especially when FIFA uses them when making the seeds in the WC.

[biosoccer]

Originally posted by Rafael Hernandez
What does 98 have to do? Its the before last freaking cup!!! One bad WC and suddenly they deserve to lose a spot?? If that were the case then CONCACAF would be screwed since the US was last in France and Africa wouldn't still be riding high from Cameroon in 90. But I forget than maybe we shouldn't pick from things like 98 that was just 4 freaking years ago especially when FIFA uses them when making the seeds in the WC.

I like your attitude!

[Oscar]

He did not say South America deserved to lose a spot, just that the other teams from South America aren't as great as some people here would like you to believe...which is why they only talk about Cups which didn't take place this year, because we all know what happened to those 'world class' teams at this year's World Cup. :D

You sure are 'world class' at whining though.
Good job :)

[CHILENOOO]

no no...Oscar...
When you talk about whining you got to say the word Spain or Italy somewhere....

Should I call Byron Moreno to act as Referee in this forum???

[Crazy_Yank]

Originally posted by Oscar
He did not say South America deserved to lose a spot, just that the other teams from South America aren't as great as some people here would like you to believe...which is why they only talk about Cups which didn't take place this year, because we all know what happened to those 'world class' teams at this year's World Cup. :D

You sure are 'world class' at whining though.
Good job :)


Exactly. If you read my first post on page one I never said South America deserved to lose a spot, but I can understand FIFA's position. I was pointing out the other side of the argument.

[Oscar]

no no...Oscar...
When you talk about whining you got to say the word Spain or Italy somewhere....

All the whining the people in those 2 countries did combined doesn't even come close to you man. Don't be modest, you're world class at whining. :) Then again, at least they were whining about teams that actually matter ----->

Non-Argentina, non-Brasil South American teams in the last few World Cups, and when they got kicked out:

2002
Uruguay - 1st round
Paraguay - 2nd round
Ecuador - 1st round

1998
Chile - 2nd round
Paraguay - 2nd round
Colombia - 1st round

1994
Colombia - 1st round
Bolivia - 1st round

1990
Colombia - 2nd round
Uruguay - 2nd round

In those Cups the top teams from Asia, Africa and CONCACAF have gone further than these 'world class' :D teams.

[pololo]

Originally posted by Oscar
All the whining the people in those 2 countries did combined doesn't even come close to you man. Don't be modest, you're world class at whining. :) Then again, at least they were whining about teams that actually matter ----->

Non-Argentina, non-Brasil South American teams in the last few World Cups, and when they got kicked out:

2002
Uruguay - 1st round
Paraguay - 2nd round
Ecuador - 1st round

1998
Chile - 2nd round
Paraguay - 2nd round
Colombia - 1st round

1994
Colombia - 1st round
Bolivia - 1st round

1990
Colombia - 2nd round
Uruguay - 2nd round

In those Cups the top teams from Asia, Africa and CONCACAF have gone further than these 'world class' :D teams.

What?

Which top teams from these confederations reach further than the South Americans?

Except for Cameroun '90 Korea2002

[bocatuna]

Originally posted by Wolves_67
I think FIFA did just fine with this decision.


So do I. All Fifa's changes really mean is that we get poor teams from different areas of the world qualifying for the World Cup. We lose Slovenia and gain Morocco, we lose Ecuador and gain Iran. The quality between the teams who will miss out and the teams who will now qualify is marginal and will not effect the quality of future World Cups. Plus the system, the actual system of qualification is now fairer in terms of no. of countries per confed vs. number of places. Its not perfect but I do think it is a better system.

[Oscar]

Which top teams from these confederations reach further than the South Americans?

Cameroon, South Korea and USA

edit:
Teams from those confeds that have reached the 2nd round which is the most these 'world class' teams from South America have achieved in the last few Cups:

Costa Rica, Senegal, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Mexico

[CHILENOOO]

Originally posted by Oscar
Cameroon, South Korea and USA

edit:
Teams from those confeds that have reached the 2nd round which is the most these 'world class' teams from South America have achieved in the last few Cups:

Costa Rica, Senegal, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Mexico

Can you say or write the world "Fluke"?

[Oscar]

Originally posted by CHILENOOO
Can you say or write the world "Fluke"?

Can you say or write the word 'word'? :)

In any case those teams not even being able to get past the 2nd round for 12 years now is no fluke.

[Elninho]

Originally posted by Oscar
Cameroon, South Korea and USA

edit:
Teams from those confeds that have reached the 2nd round which is the most these 'world class' teams from South America have achieved in the last few Cups:

Costa Rica, Senegal, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Mexico

Senegal was a quarterfinalist too.

[Oscar]

Indeed

[art]

Originally posted by CHILENOOO
Can you say or write the world "Fluke"?

lol..."yeah, like 18 teams have made it further than my team, but in every case it was a FLUKE!!!"

[Rafael Hernandez]

The only teams that have been consistant in getting out of the next round in those cups are Mexico, the US and Nigeria. Saudi Arabia was a fluke since they have been for the last 2 cups, the worst team in the cup (eventhough they finished higher than the US in France, they only did it because of some BS pks against South Africa). No South American team has been a laughing stock in a WC unlike the AFC which has had a laughing stock in almost every cup

1990: UAE
1998: South Korea and Saudi Arabia
2002: China and Saudi Arabia

The other South American teams have had 3 representatives in the second round in the last 2 WC, 1 less than the AFC in their entire history and 2 of those came from host this year.

If you take out Argentina and Brazil, you have 1 team that went to the 2nd round, another who were an inch of making it had Richard Morales not squandered a header and another one who at least eliminated a team considered to be a candidate to make the 2nd round (Croatia). If you take out Japan and SK, you have the two teams that were dead last and were the least competitive teams going a combined 0-20.

And yet South America will lose the spot to Asia.

It just unfair whichever way you look at it.

[M]

Originally posted by Rafael Hernandez
If you take out Argentina and Brazil, you have 1 team that went to the 2nd round, another who were an inch of making it had Richard Morales not squandered a header and another one who at least eliminated a team considered to be a candidate to make the 2nd round (Croatia). If you take out Japan and SK, you have the two teams that were dead last and were the least competitive teams going a combined 0-20.

And yet South America will lose the spot to Asia.

It just unfair whichever way you look at it.

Absolutely. Asia's representation is a complete joke when you look at the performance of their teams. None of their four qualifiers got past the first round in '98 and all of them were essentially also rans. Korea and Japan did well as *hosts* in '02, but their worst qualifiers did even worse than in '98. None of this suggests that increased Asian participation is warranted, yet their representation has gone up from 3 1/2 in '98 to 4 1/2 in '06. (they also wangled 4 1/2 in '02 after pouting about two hosts). I can only assume that this is all about FIFA votes - of which Asia has rather more than South America.