Where Lyon ranks amongst the biggest European clubs

[Nanbawan]

7th grade Canadian? You don't have a clue who you are talking to you redneck hick!

So don't tell, I feel we'll be highly disappointed... :rolleyes:

[matpio]

Wow, this is a hot topic.... :D

This would be my ranking, based on the strengths of the team this year, not on the history or what so ever.

1) Chelsea
2) Barca
3) Milan
4) Juve
5) Lyon
6) Bayern
7) Inter
8) Real Madrid
9) Manchester United
10) Liverpool

[sl7vk]

...You don't have a clue who you are talking to....
Always the first sign that you're talking to a grade A moron.

[sl7vk]

I'm tempted to close this,

But its like rubbernecking. You want to drop by and see where it ends up...

Closing this thread now would be a crime against BS.

[ECMoney]

Always the first sign that you're talking to a grade A moron.

I was surprised you even know where Toronto was, I am very impressed!

[gaijin]

lol. I thought ECMoney was from Torino. :D


Whoops. :rolleyes:

[marakana10]

My top 10 in Europe in Uefa Champions League based on current form:

1. Barcelona
2. Juventus
3. Chelsea
4. Olypique Lyonnais
5. Inter Milan
6. Bayern Munchen
7. AC Milan
8. Arsenal
9. Manchester United
10. Liverpool

My top 11 in Europe based on last 5 years:

1. Real Madrid: 2 Champions League titles, 2 Spanish League titles
2. AC Milan: 1 Champions League title, 1 Italian league title
3. Juventus: 1 Champions League final appearence, 3 Italian league titles
4. Bayern Munchen: 1 Champions League title, 3 German League titles
5. Olympique Lyonnais: 2 Champions League quarters, 4 French League titles
6. Arsenal: 2 English League titles, CL quarters, 3 FA Cups, unbeaten in EPL 03-04
7. Porto: 1 Champions League title, 1 Uefa Cup title, 2 Portugese League titles
8. Manchester United: 2 English League titles, 2 FA Cups, CL quarters
9. Chelsea: 2 CL semifinals, 1 league title, 1 league cup, runner up in 03-04
10. Valencia: 1 Uefa Cup, 2 Spanish League titles, 1 CL final appearence
11. Liverpool: 1 Champions League title, 1 Uefa Cup, 1 FA Cup

[essie_majedi]

probably euros 3rd best club behind chelsea and ac milan

[guignol]

it's hard to list a top 10, because there are clubs that get overrated because of their notoriety (real, but right now especially arsenal and ajax imho), and clubs that get underrated for the lack thereof (most notably villareal as we speak). there are also teams that are between the two (like PSV, who did very well last year but has lost a lot of players).

rapscallion's two lists, one for fame and the other for form, is on the right track. because a lot of those "fame" teams have the organization (and budget) to get back on top relatively quickly. it's no use discounting the power of money, as ganu points out.

but the power of money is limited. limited by the intelligence with which it's spent. OL has done much better than PSG or OM on roughly the same money, and arguably as well as chelsea, real or MU have done with budgets several times as big.

small clubs are generally more fragile than big clubs economically, but this is not necessarily the case with OL. if you predict that in 10 years juventus and real will still be near the top, you're right. saying OL will not be, i think sl17k will have the last laugh. in the last 10 years their budget has gone up 500% and if you look at the club from a financial analyst's point of view, it's a must buy, they're still solid, balanced budget, and on the way up.

moreover, who can say what the landscape will be like in 10 years? a european DCNG may seem laughable now, but UEFA is serious about doing something in that direction, and eventually the fans may demand it. there's a mini-revolution brewing over ticket prices in england, where you pay as much to watch leeds' reserves as you do to watch OL!

and let's have a look at US sports: just as for hypermarkets, reality shows and obesity, the future is often now on the other side of the atlantic. and what have we seen there? strikes, lockouts, fan boycotts and finally, salary caps. on a levelled playing field, i can't see abramovitch or perez keeping up with aulas!

[sl7vk]

it's hard to list a top 10, because there are clubs that get overrated because of their notoriety (real, but right now especially arsenal and ajax imho), and clubs that get underrated for the lack thereof (most notably villareal as we speak). there are also teams that are between the two (like PSV, who did very well last year but has lost a lot of players).

rapscallion's two lists, one for fame and the other for form, is on the right track. because a lot of those "fame" teams have the organization (and budget) to get back on top relatively quickly. it's no use discounting the power of money, as ganu points out.

but the power of money is limited. limited by the intelligence with which it's spent. OL has done much better than PSG or OM on roughly the same money, and arguably as well as chelsea, real or MU have done with budgets several times as big.

small clubs are generally more fragile than big clubs economically, but this is not necessarily the case with OL. if you predict that in 10 years juventus and real will still be near the top, you're right. saying OL will not be, i think sl17k will have the last laugh. in the last 10 years their budget has gone up 500% and if you look at the club from a financial analyst's point of view, it's a must buy, they're still solid, balanced budget, and on the way up.

moreover, who can say what the landscape will be like in 10 years? a european DCNG may seem laughable now, but UEFA is serious about doing something in that direction, and eventually the fans may demand it. there's a mini-revolution brewing over ticket prices in england, where you pay as much to watch leeds' reserves as you do to watch OL!

and let's have a look at US sports: just as for hypermarkets, reality shows and obesity, the future is often now on the other side of the atlantic. and what have we seen there? strikes, lockouts, fan boycotts and finally, salary caps. on a levelled playing field, i can't see abramovitch or perez keeping up with aulas!

Well spoken, and as diplomatic as always Guignol.... :D

[blackjack]

Great post Guignol. Repped.

[sl7vk]

This came out today. Interesting timing.

Juventus deserve bigger crowds says Moggi (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=344884&cc=5901)

[SeanBGeary]

well played guignol...
a phenomenal barometer for European club prowess last year was Soccernet's Top 25 which was a computerized system based on wins/draws/losses bien sur but as well factoring in opponent strength/league strength/Champions League, etc. Unfortunately it seems as if they've discontinued the program...
and though it pains me to admit, they were ranking lyon sevenish (minor fluctuations here and there) all year last year.

[RandyNA74]

This came out today. Interesting timing.

Juventus deserve bigger crowds says Moggi (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=344884&cc=5901)
Here's another interesting tidbit, since this discussion seems to have focused a lot on Lyon vs. Juve.

Moggi, who joined Juve in 1994, will likely be departing the club at the end of this season. Moggi is a very influential genius of the calciomercato and it's probably little coincidence that his arrival at the club turned Juve's fortunes around, as the club went through a dark period from the mid-80's to mid-90's without winning any trophies. Moggi certainly did a lot to help Napoli's fortunes as well during his time with that club. It makes you wonder what will happen once he leaves. Will Juve be able to keep that level of competence up, or will they succumb under the pressure of other clubs, such as Chelsea and Lyon? Moggi's leaves pretty big shoes to fill...

[gaijin]

I suppose you can make the distinction between Aulas and Moggi, who have both been integral figures in turning around the various clubs.

However, Aulas took a club from the then second division and without a major championship to their name and turned them into one of the best run and consistent teams in Europe.

Moggi had the task of trying to turn around the Juve ship, but it was one huge ship to begin with.

I certainly think if Moggi was to leave, Juve can always carry on to be succesful, but obiviously the same cannot be directly said about Aulas, as there are still question marks whether Lyon have that edge that can keep them part of the European elite, that Juventus were always a part of, even during the dark days and trophy-less years.

We all know what happened to their neighbours St-Etienne and how the dominance ended quite spectularly and only now are they are starting to build something good down there.

You do worry if the same fate can afflict Lyon or whether they have learnt lessons to deal with such an outcome if it did happen.

We all know that dynasties cannot last.

L'OL are no exception.

Whether or not they have built themselves up so that if they do fall, they have a good safety net to catch them, is another question altogether.

[sl7vk]

Ganu.... Lyon aren't going anywhere. Not for a very long time.

[Looper121]

Ganu.... Lyon aren't going anywhere. Not for a very long time.

Neither is Nancy. ;)

[sl7vk]

Neither is Nancy. ;)

Well our ambitons aren't high, so long as we don't take the drop we'll be delighted. :rolleyes:

[gaijin]

Ganu.... Lyon aren't going anywhere. Not for a very long time.
Of course, but we all know that anything can happen. ;)

[guignol]

Of course, but we all know that anything can happen. ;)i agree that the present management of OL would be hard to replace and keep the team at their present level. one thing you have to realize about the team is that the relative stability in players and coaches is only a dim reflection of that of the "players" behind the scenes. aulas has been president 18 years, and he's had most of the same team around him for a decade.

letting sonny anderson go, or essien, or le guen, none of this would be as tough as replacing bernard lacombe. but even he is not indispensable (graveyards are full of indispensable people; n'est-ce pas?).

no, aulas is the man. even if a new owner was found that had his ambition, i doubt he would bring the same management skills. thank god he's only 55 and takes good care of himself!