Where Lyon ranks amongst the biggest European clubs

[gaijin]

Your living 10 years ago Ganu. I'll wager you that Lyon advance further in the C1 this year than Juve......
I never said a thing about stadium capacities. I said if you can't fill half of your ground, you're not a great European club. Second tier clubs can't fill half of their ground. The point went way over your head.

Interesting...

Because my point was that it is totally irrelevant that a great European Club can fill there ground or not.

The Delli Alpi is too big for Juve and Juve are too big for it. The club never wanted the ground, it was a hand me over after the whole Italia 1990 thing. Its not even soccer specific like the Gerland.

Stick Lyon in a 90,000 capacity stadium with a running track and 10km out of town and we'll see if they can fill it each week.

Well let's see what they have both accomplished in ten years...Whilst Juve have been in that ground of woe, that they can't fill.

Juve = 6 Scudettos, One Italian Cup, 1 European Cup
Lyon = 4 league titles.

Oh, and an better average attedance than Lyon's for all but a year. ;)

Yeah, I'm living in the past. Because its the past which has made this team great and gives it its foundations to stand on. Read into Lyon before 2001 and its just a bunch of blank pages.

Not a very strong base to stand on, if you ask me.

[sl7vk]

Oh, and you may want to check out Monaco's domestic and European record and average home attendance too.

Read into what you want, but Juve piss all over Lyon.


Now your just being silly.

Populations
Turin 850,000
Monaco 32,000

Come on Ganu, you can do better than that.

How about 50 US dollars on the Lyon vs Juve bet...... I'll put my money where my mouth is.

[SportBoy333]

Lets not kid ourselves here. The main reason Lyon is a bigger club now is because they have been in the Champions League now for like 5 or 6 years in a row. If they miss the C1 for 2 or 3 years in a row then their budget will be slashed significantly. Those clubs I mentioned earlier that I said were all bigger than Lyon, if any of them miss the C1 for 2 or 3 years in a row their budget would not be cut as significantly as Lyon's would should the same thing happen to them. Those other clubs I said were bigger than OL they'd probably spend just as much money to try to get back to the C1 should they miss it for a few years and Lyon cant do that because they play in France under different rules than those other teams do.

Look at PSG for example. They cant go out and spend gobs of money just to try to get into the Champions League because they play in France. If they played in England, Italy, or Spain then they could and would do that. Instead they have to spend little by little each year slowly increasing their total budget by a little more each year. PSG or Lyon or any French team can not do what Chelsea does and spend a ton of money in one year just to try to win the title. It just cant happen in France under the current structure of rules and regulations. Is it fair ? Of course not. Would Lyon have spent 45 million this offseason if they had been playing in the C1 every other year instead of 5-6 years in a row ? Of course not.

[gaijin]

So I take it you won't be taking my bet then........... Not surprised really.
The last two years Lyon has outdrawn Juve with a stadium half the size..... Like I said, you're living in the past. I imagine that in your world Red Star Belgrade is still a European Giant.

The last two years, Lyon has a better European record than Juve.... That is just simply fact.

Red Star have one European Cup. Lyon have none.

I'm not saying that Lyon aren't a big European club, I'm suggesting that they are nothing next to Juve. And they still won't be in 10 years time.

The fact remains that Juve have a much better chance in the long run of European success than Lyon.

Lyon's dominance could prove a flash in the pan like the great Marseille of the early 90's.

Juve are pratically an institution that will always be on top. No matter what happens.

2 years. Big ********ing wow. Come back in 10 years and we'll see who has the better record.

[sl7vk]

Red Star have one European Cup. Lyon have none.

I'm not saying that Lyon aren't a big European club, I'm suggesting that they are nothing next to Juve. And they still won't be in 10 years time.

The fact remains that Juve have a much better chance in the long run of European success than Lyon.

Lyon's dominance could prove a flash in the pan like the great Marseille of the early 90's.

Juve are pratically an institution that will always be on top. No matter what happens.

2 years. Big ********ing wow. Come back in 10 years and we'll see who has the better record.

Well I'm glad that you can read the future.... I would start sports betting with that kind of brilliant intuition.
I'm glad you got my point on Red Star Belgrade..... that one zinged over the top of your head this time... I should of used OM as the example. The point being that past glory doesn't necessarily reflect the present.

[SportBoy333]

Juve will always be able to outspend Lyon and attact better players. Its not fair but thats the way it is.

[sl7vk]

Lets not kid ourselves here. The main reason Lyon is a bigger club now is because they have been in the Champions League now for like 5 or 6 years in a row. If they miss the C1 for 2 or 3 years in a row then their budget will be slashed significantly. Those clubs I mentioned earlier that I said were all bigger than Lyon, if any of them miss the C1 for 2 or 3 years in a row their budget would not be cut as significantly as Lyon's would should the same thing happen to them. Those other clubs I said were bigger than OL they'd probably spend just as much money to try to get back to the C1 should they miss it for a few years and Lyon cant do that because they play in France under different rules than those other teams do.


Yeah, Lazio, Roma, Valencia, Majorca, Borrusia, Leverkursen, Newcastle, Celtic, and Parma haven't lost anything missing the C1. Any club suffers missing out on the C1.... Even Man U. It doesn't matter who you are, there is too much money in that tourny to miss it.

[gaijin]

Barca cannot fill the Nou Camp. Dortmund can fill the Westfalenstadion.

Capiche? Understand your specious reasoning now? It means jack shit. Barcelona has a far bigger popualtion than Dortmund as well.

Just because a team fails to fill their stadium, does not mean they are doomed to non-existance in the vestibule of European football.

Oh and go to Italy some time, and drive out to the Delli Apli when you've got a free moment. You'll see what a nightmare it is. Give Lyon a similar ground and it too would be half-empty.


Come on Ganu, you can do better than that.


Can I? How do you know?


How about 50 US dollars on the Lyon vs Juve bet...... I'll put my money where my mouth is.

According to the FTSE, the exchange rate for the £/$ is looking quite bad.

If you look, I didn't say anything about Juve doing better than Lyon. I am suggesting that it is incorrect to suggest who the bigger club is and who the bigger club will be in 10 years time.

Why create a bet, that I have no interest in defending? I couldn't give a toss what Juve or Lyon do in the CL.

Me thinks you want to deprive a scruffy chap like me of his non-hard earned cash.

I know that cash will come in handy for you. I can appreciate that. But I already give money to the Salvation Army.

This is pushing it a bit...

[sl7vk]

Juve will always be able to outspend Lyon and attact better players. Its not fair but thats the way it is.

And why is that? What has Juve spent this year vs Lyon? Tell me that.

[SportBoy333]

And why is that? What has Juve spent this year vs Lyon? Tell me that.

Their total budget is higher and they more have higher paid and better players at each position than Lyon. Of course that doesnt mean Lyon cant defeat them if they played.

[sl7vk]

Barca cannot fill the Nou Camp. Dortmund can fill the Westfalenstadion.

Capiche? Understand your specious reasoning now? It means jack shit. Barcelona has a far bigger popualtion than Dortmund as well.

Just because a team fails to fill their stadium, does not mean they are doomed to non-existance in the vestibule of European football.

Oh and go to Italy some time, and drive out to the Delli Apli when you've got a free moment. You'll see what a nightmare it is. Give Lyon a similar ground and it too would be half-empty.



Can I? How do you know?



According to the FTSE, the exchange rate for the £/$ is looking quite bad.

If you look, I didn't say anything about Juve doing better than Lyon. I am suggesting that it is incorrect to suggest who the bigger club is and who the bigger club will be in 10 years time.

Why create a bet, that I have no interest in defending? I couldn't give a toss what Juve or Lyon do in the CL.

Me thinks you want to deprive a scruffy chap like me of his non-hard earned cash.

I know that cash will come in handy for you. I can appreciate that. But I already give money to the Salvation Army.

This is pushing it a bit...

Barca average 73,000 Juve 26,000
Horrible comparison.

If you haven't noticed, I don't give a toss about Juve or Lyon either. I care about ASNL and that is it as far as Europe is concerned. I just love how quickly people can put their foot in their mouth around here.

So that is no on the bet then..... I understand. The Salvation Army crack again is a bit poor. And I know that you can do better than that because I've seen it. Your bringing your B game today and it dissapoints me.

[SportBoy333]

Yeah, Lazio, Roma, Valencia, Majorca, Borrusia, Leverkursen, Newcastle, Celtic, and Parma haven't lost anything missing the C1.



If Lyon misses the C1 for 2 or 3 years in a row then they would become just like those clubs guaranteed. Only the truely elite rich super clubs are hurt minimaly if they miss they C1.

[gaijin]

And why is that? What has Juve spent this year vs Lyon? Tell me that.
Its not a question on what they have spent this year.

Its a question of their ability to spend next year, and the year after that, and after that.

The same cannot be said for Lyon.

Pound for Pound, Juve are the better team. No one is denying Lyon's ability, but to suggest that they are a top 10 club is laughable.

Top 20. Yep. Top 10. No way.

[sl7vk]

Their total budget is higher and they more have higher paid and better players at each position than Lyon. Of course that doesnt mean Lyon cant defeat them if they played.

Better players at every position..... Hmmmmmmmm.....

As Ganu would say.

Me thinks no.

[SportBoy333]

I didnt say better at every position I said better at most positions.

[sl7vk]

I didnt say better at every position I said better at most positions.

You said each position. It's written in black and white above.

[gaijin]

Barca average 73,000 Juve 26,000
Horrible comparison.


Errrrr.

Point being? I didn't compare Barca and Juve. I compared Barca and Dortmund and the so called strengths of those teams, with the relevancy that average attendance means nothing in correlation to success and team strength.

Do keep up.


If you haven't noticed, I don't give a toss about Juve or Lyon either. I care about ASNL and that is it as far as Europe is concerned. I just love how quickly people can put their foot in their mouth around here.


Indeed. I'm watching it now as we speak. All I have to do is look at the little giblet of writing beside your name and try and guess what the ******** its trying to articulate.


So that is no on the bet then..... I understand. The Salvation Army crack again is a bit poor. And I know that you can do better than that because I've seen it. Your bringing your B game today and it dissapoints me.

I don't bring out my A material for schlepps like you unfortuanetly.


I feel the exercise is wasted.

Like painting a Picasso for a class of retards on an Art appreciation class.

The notion of what I am trying to achieve is lost.





Very easily...

Somewhat...

[SportBoy333]

Year after year Juve have one of the top budgets in Europe. Its consistant throughout history. Thats what makes them a big club. Forget about attendence. If Lyon played in Serie A their budget would be even higher than what it is now. Theyd be forced to spend more to compete with Juve, Milan, and Inter. Those 3 clubs are European juggernauts in terms of wealth.

[gaijin]

Better players at every position..... Hmmmmmmmm.....

As Ganu would say.

Me thinks no.
The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.

[sl7vk]

Its not a question on what they have spent this year.

Its a question of their ability to spend next year, and the year after that, and after that.

The same cannot be said for Lyon.

Pound for Pound, Juve are the better team. No one is denying Lyon's ability, but to suggest that they are a top 10 club is laughable.

Top 20. Yep. Top 10. No way.

You'd be surprised at how easy it is to fall off the top of the heap. Juve lost 3 million last year and 18.5 million the year before. One or two missed champions leagues and they are 55 to 60 million in the hole. How quickly these things can turn.
Lyon operates at a profit.