GRAND THEFT. Fifa takes S. America spot

[Jay510]

i agree with cosmos....i mean lets get real people 4.5 to asia, based on 1 world cup performance by the hosts that got all the calls..........

if anything is ludicris, its that Asia could get 5 teams, cause Australia AND new Zealand would wipe the floor with Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iraq, China, and and anyone else who has a shot to be the fifth place team.

If you gave 5 spots to Asia and Oceania, that would be fair, i mean what happens if fiji somehow makes it to the world cup or Saudi Arabia again........how is FIFA going to defend against a pure thrashing in the Cup

[Jay510]

not to mention that any 5th place CONMEBOL team would never get their butts whipped in the cup, ever.

i mean cmon, giving asia a chance at 5 spots, it not like its real, its like sniffing your sisters ass

[cosmosRIP]

Originally posted by "Simply Ken"
Most observers of the Asian game, similarly, agree that Iran would have done much better than either Saudi Arabia or China had it qualified. The same way everyone would agree that Holland would have better represented UEFA than say Slovenia. If you can't get your best teams to represent you then this is a problem with your qualifying system and not a reason to get additional finals spots. People might criticize the American confederations for playing so many qualifying games but you don't hear their fans complain that their best teams are not at the finals.

[pololo]

Originally posted by "Simply Ken"
Those numbers don't mean jack!

In 1998, Iran qualified as Asia's '4th' team. Yet, in the tournament, it finished with the most points among the Asians -- as well as one of the Conembol sides. Was Iran therefore Asia's #1 or #4 in 1998?

Most observers of the Asian game, similarly, agree that Iran would have done much better than either Saudi Arabia or China had it qualified. The same way everyone would agree that Holland would have better represented UEFA than say Slovenia.

Which Conmebol sides are you talking about?

Chile had 3 points
Colombia had 3 points
Paraguay had 5 points

Asias best(Iran) in 98' couldn't get past the weakest of SOuth America that is Chile and Colombia.

Otherwise 4 1/2 spots for Asia is a sick joke.

["Simply Ken"]

I agree that 5 spots for a combined AFC/OFC group would have been ideal.

[FunGuy]

Originally posted by SoccerScout
>>is over rated, any of the top 5 teams in concacaf can beat the 8-10 teams in s. america on most days.
>>

Other than Venezuela...no way. The Top 2 Concacaf (US & Mexico) can get pretty even with mid level South Americans (like Chile, Paraguay etc..) but thats about it.

The # 8 and #9 in SA are very interchangable. One year they can be Chile and Bolivia in another it can be Paraguay and Equador and no way in hell can Honduras or Costa Rica beat these teams "Most days" as you say. They would probably lose most days.

Take a look at the last copa america, and see what the " lesser" concacaf teams did to to the S. american teams

[Jay510]

very true, asia could have played home and aways for 2 rounds to get the 20 down to 10 and then play the 9 others home and away....its 22 games, 24 for the final playoff teams, but hey, thats why you get 2 full years to qualify..........if you cant play 1 game a month in qualifying on average, youve got some problems.

Personally....S. America plays 18 (20 for playoff teams) and CONCACAF, the USA plays at least 16, or more.........but its the fairest way to do it

the only people to blame for putting Iran, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, Iraq and whoever, is the Asian committee......How china got that group they got was astounding, i mean uzbekistan? cmon

[Jay510]

Originally posted by FunGuy
Take a look at the last copa america, and see what the " lesser" concacaf teams did to to the S. american teams

as far as i know the only teams that sent good squads were Colombia, Mexico and Honduras

[Wolves_67]

I'm looking forward to seeing Fiji make a run for the cup in 2006..
They beat Brazil!..









In Rugby

[Jay510]

seriously, if anyone thinks that this breakdown is fair, they are out of control

i can just see the great Fiji, uzbekistan matchup in group C while Norway, Holland and Colombia sit home..........i know its tough to find the very best 32 out of 6 separate groups, but i think their has to be a better way

["Simply Ken"]

pololo,

I think Iran technically finished ahead of Columbia in the final 'standings' in 1998, atlhough I could be wrong (?). But, regardless, my point was about the fact that you can't just assign a rank to a team based on its qualifying, or World Cup, record alone. The picture is more complicated.

Take the example of Brazil and Argentina in qualifying as opposed to the World Cup last time around.

Brazil struggled to qualfiy for the last World Cup, but then won the tournament. Argentina, at the other end, failed to even advance out of the group stage.

Still, I rank Brazil and Argentina as the top teams in Conembol regardless of how they each ranked in either the qualifiers (relatively poorly in Brazil's case) or the World Cup (poorly in Argentina's case).

cosmos,

As the above should illustrate, it is not that simple. Part of the problem was the way the AFC picked the groups, as Jay alluded to. But part of the problem had to do with the so-called better team chocking or suffering an upset result. That happens in football.

After all, Iran was forced into the playoffs after it relinquished its lead in the qualifying standings with a upset loss to Bahrain in the last regular qualifying match. Had Iran won that game against Bahrain, it would have qualified directly instead of Saudi Arabia (which Iran beat 4:2 on aggregates in the qualifiers).

Now, Iran's failure is no ones fault but Iran's. My point, however, is that you can't make a complete and accurate judgment about the strength of a confederation (and its so-called 5th team) just based on how others from the same confederation performed.

[SportBoy321]

People of South America I feel your pain. People of Oceania most of you down there don't even like soccer. Your domestic leagues are worse than MLS.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Heist
When they were a team of college all-stars?
If it was pre 1996 or so that's what the US was.
China is better than a US college team, but Asia barely deserves 4, 3.5 would be more fair and a playoff with Oceania.

From what your saying, that doesn't count. You guys would have had your best team at the time here so the excuses won't wash.

BTW, China beat the US 1-0 at the last U-20 championship.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Jay510
as far as i know the only teams that sent good squads were Colombia, Mexico and Honduras

Define a good squad.

You guys would use the excuse that countries didn't send their top squads when they lose to a "minnow".

Why don't you look at what happened to the Brazilian coach at the 2001 Confed Cup.

Basing your feelings on a one-off match, as is the case with two-match series, is ludicrous at best.

As for the leagues of the OFC, the Australian NSL outlived the NASL and surely will outlive MLS.

[sammydog]

This is a great day for football in Oceania.

SportBoy321, I think you underestimate the following down here. The world cup topped the TV ratings. Sure the australian league isn't widely supported but that should all change with the reform to be impemented in the next two seasons.

[Ben OZ]

I'm Australian and am pleased with the decision though believe it is not the best thing for Australian soccer. Preferably I'd like Oceania merge with Asia (and then preferably split into new Middle East/West Asia and Asia-Pacific confederations) or see the top 2 Oceanian sides compete into the Asian final round of WC qualifiers. But this has not happened so I'm happy for Oceania to get a direct spot though worry about the preparation the Oceanian team will have before the WC finals.

CONMEBOL have been robbed and deserve more than 4 spots (they should at least have 5) while AFC IMO do not deserve 4.5 spots (deserve 2.5) since they only have 5 good/decent sides (Japan, Korea, China, Saudi Arabia and Iran). UEFA deserve an extra spot.

My breakdown would have been (if you take into account OFC get 1 spot):

Hosts (Germany) 1
CONCACAF 3.5
CONMEBOL 5
CAF 5
UEFA 14
AFC 2.5

From an Australian point of view:

Australia, given thorough preparation, are strong enough to be competitive in the WC finals. Australia has not been given a thorough preparation of solid competitive games in their WCQ for many years, and have ironically not here. Let's not forget in recent years, Australia has drawn with Brazil and beaten France, we just can't win the games they count! ;) NZ have a habit of spoiling Australia's party and could well do so here, like they did earlier in the Oceania Nations Cup! Time will tell if Oceania deserved the decision handed out today.

Go Aussies! :D

[sammydog]

Ben, I agree in that I would love to see the top two oceania take our world cup place teams go into a final asian qualifying round, but I can't see it ever happening. This would be the best option for Australian Soccer.

I think though we will get to play a lot more games and will be more than competative if NZ don't ruin everything.

[Ben OZ]

Yeah, the good thing for the Oceania qualifier will be that there will be many teams hoping to play against them in the lead up to 2006. Hopefully, the Oceania team will have a solid lead up of plenty of games against competitive opposition before the WC in 2006.

[sinner78]

http://soccer.sportsground.com/worldcup2002/oceania-group1.htm


aussies qualifier results with a weakened line-up...

They might as well book their hotels for germany 2006...
The word FARCE springs to mind...

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk
http://soccer.sportsground.com/worldcup2002/oceania-group1.htm


aussies qualifier results with a weakened line-up...

They might as well book their hotels for germany 2006...
The word FARCE springs to mind...

Guess you haven't read the OFC U-20 Qualifiers yet have you?