GRAND THEFT. Fifa takes S. America spot

[Oscar]

I thought Group H was the worst myself, meh.

What the hell does it matter that one team did 'better' than the other team, when BOTH got kicked out in the 1st group stage? They both managed to do the exact same thing.

Same with Spain and Japan in '98

The point was: sending a big name team is no guarantee they will do better (better as in managing to get further...what normally would be considered doing better than the other team in a WC) than a no-name team. Like Argentina and France have shown.

[Heist]

Originally posted by Oscar
So how would you propose things would be better?

Even if they removed the minnows at first (which largely don't have anything to do with big names staying at home in the 1st place) you would still use the same seeding as they do now to make the groups following the preliminaries, no guarantee that multiple good teams aren't placed in the same group.

Even if you made the groups bigger like some here have proposed, that would not stop: underperforming, overperfoming, and it would still use the same seeding as they do now.

Would you change the way they seed the teams? What other way would you measure them than the past results of these teams? Opinion?

Many people here rag about the European qualification system, but none have proposed anything better (that would let these so-called more deserving teams be guaranteed to go to the tournament)

Top 10 are seeded, the next 22 get in by playing off in groups.
Then there are 8 groups of 4 (after the bottom 20 or so teams are weeded out).
The winners of those groups go and the top 2 second place teams go.
The other 6 second place teams and the top 4 third place teams play a home and home or get drawn with someone from another confederation for a home and home.
Every other Confederation should have one or two half spots I think. UEFA should have 4.
Everyone would have more of a chance, but also have to prove themselves. Maybe all 12 teams would just get drawn randomly against each other or there could be a mini-cup of say 12 teams playing for 5-7 spots. They could go into groups of 4 with the top two in each going.

So, if Europe really is so good they could have up to 17, but would always get at least 13. Forgetting Germany in this case of course. Assume this is a year when they have to qualify.

[LotharDSM]

Originally posted by Oceania
FIFA rankings are heavily dependent on the opportunities to have games that mean something. Oceania rankings are affected by this.
Oceanic rankings will continue to improve rapidly as long as Oceania retains the direct World Cup spot. Now, other confederations will want to play teams from Oceania eg Asia Confederation has already made such a contact.
FIFA's long neglect of Oceania has at last been rectified.

If the AUS Federation can get their first team players to show the hell up (Kewell, Viduka, etc.) there will be more teams lining up to play them and then maybe the rest of the world WILL take them seriously (depending on the results). If they throw their 2nd team at everyone then I wouldn't expect their rankings to go anywhere with their accumulation of losses.
Maybe the AFC is making contact to play OFC in a few games to test the waters? Now that there's a WC spot available down under they might be more willing to bring in the OFC teams under their umbrella in exchange for playing Fiji, Tahiti, Vanuatu, Tonga, et al. in their qualifiers.

[Oscar]

Top 10 are seeded, the next 22 get in by playing off in groups

According to the current rankings, which can be found here (http://www.uefa.com/Competitions/EURO/news/Kind=1/newsId=12228.html), that means among others these teams would be playing in the preliminaries: Holland, England, Denmark, Croatia, Russia and Yugoslavia.

Then there are 8 groups of 4. The winners of those groups go and the top 2 second place teams go. The other 6 second place teams and the top 4 third place teams play a home and home or get drawn with someone from another confederation for a home and home

UEFA only has 13 spots to give away, they're not gonna be giving any ½ spot to another confed voluntarily like they did last time. :)

Let's say the better teams on paper go on to this stage, which isn't always true or we wouldn't have this discussion about how UEFA's qualification isn't 'right':

1.France - Turkey - Slovenia - Bulgaria
2.Sweden - Russia - Ukraine - Finland
3.Spain - Croatia - Scotland - Greece
4.Chzech Rep - Denmark - Austria - Hungary
5.Ireland - Holland - Norway - Wales
6.Romania - Yugoslavia - Slovakia - Latvia
7.Italy - Poland - Israel - Iceland
8.Belgium - England - Switzerland - Estonia

You could still have an Ireland vs Holland plus a team like Wales (who have defeated Italy in the qualifiers for the Euro Cup 2004...how unfair of UEFA to make such a group possible!! :D )

I don't really see how this would make qualification better (especially for Holland), they'd have to play in the preliminaries, then they would be in groups simmilar to normal (3 to 4 decent sides in each group) only the size of the group would be smaller, and you'd still have groups that look easier than others.

[pololo]

Originally posted by RichardL
And just how much TV money will FIFA get from Australia? A minor sport in a country with a population of only 20 million is hardly going to get the cash registers at FIFA working overtime.

China may have a very large population, but it also is a very poor country. Big TV deals there are a long way off.

Well biljons of Chinese people have a television and most of them followed the World Cup.
That means lots of dollar for mr Blatter and his baldy friends.

[Samarkand]

Blatter has friends?
And they have no hair?
Wow!

[Soccerfever]

Well well well,it's seems that CONMEBOL hasn't say it's last word yet!

See for yourself:

http://www.soccerway.com/news/?page=details&area=1041098400

:)

[Heist]

Originally posted by Oscar
According to the current rankings, which can be found that means among others these teams would be playing in the preliminaries: Holland, England, Denmark, Croatia, Russia and Yugoslavia.

UEFA only has 13 spots to give away, they're not gonna be giving any 1/2 spot to another confed voluntarily like they did last time. :)

Let's say the better teams on paper go on to this stage, which isn't always true or we wouldn't have this discussion about how UEFA's qualification isn't 'right':

1.France - Turkey - Slovenia - Bulgaria
2.Sweden - Russia - Ukraine - Finland
3.Spain - Croatia - Scotland - Greece
4.Chzech Rep - Denmark - Austria - Hungary
5.Ireland - Holland - Norway - Wales
6.Romania - Yugoslavia - Slovakia - Latvia
7.Italy - Poland - Israel - Iceland
8.Belgium - England - Switzerland - Estonia

You could still have an Ireland vs Holland plus a team like Wales (who have defeated Italy in the qualifiers for the Euro Cup 2004...how unfair of UEFA to make such a group possible!! :D )

I don't really see how this would make qualification better (especially for Holland), they'd have to play in the preliminaries, then they would be in groups simmilar to normal (3 to 4 decent sides in each group) only the size of the group would be smaller, and you'd still have groups that look easier than others.

First, those rankings seem even more bogus than the FIFA rankings... I wouldn't use those for seeding.
Maybe you seed the top 20 teams and let the other 30 play for 12 spots. That would be fine, probably better even. Then only the best teams of the smaller countries would make it.

As far as what's easier for Holland, The prelims would be a breeze for them. I don't think that's a group in which they should lose. They should qualify out of that group, or at least come second or as one of the top 4 third place teams.
In my system they get a chance to make it even if they play below their level and only come in third.
In those groups I don't see any that are too unfair.

[Oscar]

First, those rankings seem even more bogus than the FIFA rankings

Again, if you don't seed them by their past results, with what would you seed them?

The problem isn't the size of the groups, because the weaker countries which you are now eliminating had nothing to do with Holland staying at home, it was teams like Portugal and Ireland, which still remain in every group. In fact making less groups, makes for more decent teams in a group as opposed to them being spread out across different groups. (which was the 'travesty' according to some here I guess, that UEFA would let 3 good teams in a group)

Like you proposed:
If you let the teams that end at the top go (8) and the 2 best 2nd placed teams (10) you still have 3 spots to divide; the other 6 second placed teams plus the top 4 third place teams, make 10 teams playing for 3 spots? :confused: That can't be done

Maybe you think this way would be more fair or better, but I don't see why. The only thing you have changed is remove the lightweights, to which Holland thank their good goal differential in the 1st place. You say Holland would even make it as 3rd placed (it would work if you let all the 2nd placed + 2 best 3rd placed play each other) but who's to say they would be one of the two best 3rd placed? If they played as bad as last time they would be 4th in this group.

There are still groups that are easier on paper, compare Italy's group to group 4 or 5.

They should qualify out of that group, or at least come second

That's what was said about the WC qualifying group as well.

[The Wanderer]

Wake up people, it's about money and potential footballing ability. Asia and Concacaf are on the way up, and South America's meagre economy sure doesn't help them out any. Never mind that their players are constantly worried about getting paid.

Australia will have a quality side in 2-4 years and so will Canada. China has hired a Dutch coach so look out for them at the next WC.

It's not about current footballing quality, it's about growing the business. And the business is football(soccer). South America and Europe are tapped out. Australia, North America and Asia are the last remaining frontiers. The Middle East would be next if they ever embraced democracy.

[sinner78]

Of course its all about money and nothing to do with football abillity...
Thats why concacaf gets 3.5 places .FIFA make it easy for the yanks to qualify so they might eventually reap the financial rewards if football becomes big in north america..

They'll probably change the rules of the game in the future to try and attract your average yank...
-game divided up into 4 quarters...
- goal mouth runs length of the whole pitch
- players are allowed to pick up the ball and throw it at any place on the pitch...
- a goal is worth 7 points..
-cheerleaders on the touchline..
- timeouts to allow for more commercial breaks..
- transfer system is replaced by draft system..


what a farce this sport has become..
greedy fatcats are running the sport and trying to milk as much cash as possible before they kill off the whole sport.

[lanman]

Originally posted by The Wanderer
It's not about current footballing quality, it's about growing the business

And that is the problem with the World Cup (and FIFA in general) at the moment.

I don't want to see teams like Saudi Arabia and China at the World Cup when the likes of Holland are sat at home. I want to see the best teams in the world competing together, wherever they come from.
Give me the European Championships and the Copa America any day.

[Baracuda]

Asia does not deserve more places than CONCACAF and definitely not more than S Amercia.
One full spot should've been taken from Asia and half given to Oceania and half given to CONCACAF.
S.America got robbed! It's all about greed, and
nothing more.
S. America and North America/Caribean should have the playoff.

[guri]

Originally posted by The Wanderer


Australia will have a quality side in 2-4 years and so will Canada. China has hired a Dutch coach so look out for them at the next WC.




HA! ha!ha! HA! ha!
That was a good one!!!

ha! ha! HA! HA!

[Sachin]

Originally posted by lanman
And that is the problem with the World Cup (and FIFA in general) at the moment.

I don't want to see teams like Saudi Arabia and China at the World Cup when the likes of Holland are sat at home. I want to see the best teams in the world competing together, wherever they come from.
Give me the European Championships and the Copa America any day.

But as many other people pointed out, the problem was in European qualifying where Poland and Slovenia got through, but Holland couldn't.

Sachin

[lanman]

Originally posted by Sachin
But as many other people pointed out, the problem was in European qualifying where Poland and Slovenia got through, but Holland couldn't.

I have no real problem with that (seedings within UEFA are generally good, and it is only very rarely that this sort of situation occurs) - my problem is with patently weaker teams getting through on the basis of being in another confederation. Most Asian teams (Japan and S.Korea aside) would probably rank about 4th seeds in UEFA (3rd at best) - so how does their presence at football's showpiece benefit the game? There are at least a dozen teams (and not just in Europe) better than Saudi Arabia and China.

[Sachin]

Originally posted by lanman
I have no real problem with that (seedings within UEFA are generally good, and it is only very rarely that this sort of situation occurs) - my problem is with patently weaker teams getting through on the basis of being in another confederation. Most Asian teams (Japan and S.Korea aside) would probably rank about 4th seeds in UEFA (3rd at best) - so how does their presence at football's showpiece benefit the game? There are at least a dozen teams (and not just in Europe) better than Saudi Arabia and China.

I will grant you that.. but the only way around that problem is to have a truly global qualification system, which would be a nightmare. But just like in every other sport, some deserving teams get left at home while other pretenders make it. Just look at the ECL for example.

Sachin

[lanman]

Originally posted by Sachin
I will grant you that.. but the only way around that problem is to have a truly global qualification system, which would be a nightmare. But just like in every other sport, some deserving teams get left at home while other pretenders make it. Just look at the ECL for example.


I appreciate that, but giving extra places to weak confederations at the expense of stronger ones, as is the case at the moment, where both CONMEBOL and UEFA are being screwed over for Asia and Oceania, is just more FIFA lunacy. If the Oceania champions qualified for a couple of World Cups, rather than losing to the worst other confederations have to offer then they deserve an automatic place. Likewise, when another Asian team reaches the second phase (only two have to date) when they are not hosting the tournament (Japan are incedently the joint worst performing host since 1954), then they should be considered for a play-off place on top of the two qualifiers they merit (at most).

[Mr. Cam]

Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk

Of course its all about money and nothing to do with football ability...

Did you want to say: Of course its all about money and has nothing to do with football ability...?
Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk

Thats why concacaf gets 3.5 places. FIFA make it easy for the yanks to qualify so they might eventually reap the financial rewards if football becomes big in north america..

Did you want to say: That's why CONCACAF received 3.5 places. FIFA made it easy for the Yanks to qualify so they might eventually reap the financial rewards if football becomes big in North America.
Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk

They'll probably change the rules of the game in the future to try and attract your average yank...
-game divided up into 4 quarters...
- goal mouth runs length of the whole pitch
- players are allowed to pick up the ball and throw it at any place on the pitch...
- a goal is worth 7 points..
- timeouts to allow for more commercial breaks..

In England it’s called Ruby
Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk

- transfer system is replaced by draft system.

Please do explain oh Sir erudite; can you empathically demonstrate the superiority of the transfer system over the draft system in regards to Football-Soccer?
Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk

what a farce this sport has become..

Then why do you, Sir England, still watch the EPL or Football-Soccer?
Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk

greedy fatcats are running the sport and trying to milk as much cash as possible before they kill off the whole sport.
Correction, greedy WHITE EUROPEAN fatcats are running the sport and trying to milk as much cash as possible before they kill off the whole sport.

[Jay510]

Originally posted by Mr. Cam


Correction, greedy WHITE EUROPEAN fatcats are running the sport and trying to milk as much cash as possible before they kill off the whole sport.

well if white europeans are whats keeping Europeans from winning the world cup outside of europe.....they should stop and reconsider their actions.......

cause as far as i know national team players dont get paid well for their national services outside of bonuses.....