GRAND THEFT. Fifa takes S. America spot

[biosoccer]

Originally posted by Oscar
It's not the end of the world, it's just a ½ spot

Wake up!

[Jimbob]

Oh yeah, the World Cup will be nothing without Ecuador's SMASHING display in the finals..wooooo

I think that the Oceiana should still have to playoff, but I don't see what all the griping from South America is all about. 9 World Cups means nothing when they were all won by the same three teams.

Although I don't think the confederation deserved it, I'm happy that CONCACAF gets a half spot, it could have been interesting to see if Honduras in Korea/Japan, they have a very good team down there.

To South America: It's just half a spot, quit the whining.

[Jimbob]

Originally posted by nicodemus
China beat the USA not too long ago.

When?

[nicodemus]

Originally posted by Jimbob
To South America: It's just half a spot, quit the whining.

I still think they've got a lot more right to be whining that UEFA does for losing half a spot.

[Oscar]

I don't think that area deserves 1 full spot either, but I can see where they are coming from that as a confederation they should have at least 1 full entry into the World Cup.

Plus Australia can field a pretty good team these days, it's not like they will be sending another China to Germany. They did beat Uruguay at home, it's not like they had no chance at all against the 5th place team in the CONMEBOL, who knows what would have happened if it was just 1 game at a neutral ground (á la the World Cup) which we will now be able to see in 2006.

4 out of 10 teams from South America will still be going to the World Cup. That's 40% of their teams, STILL more than any other confed if I'm not mistaken (UEFA = 28%) should UEFA also send 40% of their teams just because their top teams have done good in the World Cup?

Oooh, Colombia and Chile won't be going! Shocking! :eek: Romania, Norway, Yugoslavia and the Netherlands (for God's sake!) didn't go for Europe, why shouldn't UEFA get more spots then (judging by the "Euro 2006" comment") while CONMEBOL should?

Who knows, maybe this will help evolve the sport in that region and in time make teams from Oceania more competitive? And if only the best teams from the world should go to a WC, and not the best teams from a region...should only European and South American teams go to the World Cup seeing as no team from another region has ever made it to a final? ;)

To South America: It's just half a spot, quit the whining

Thank you

[nicodemus]

Originally posted by Jimbob
When?

The USA lost to China on January 29, 1997 in Kunming, China. 2-1 loss.

[desertfox2]

I have to agree that taking away the half of a spot from CONMEBOL was wrong, but like other people that posted said, it's not the end of the world. Other than Brazil and Argentina, there are no really fantastic teams from South America (Granted they are still probably better than Australia).

Also, taking a half of a spot away from the UEFA was also wrong I think. In the 2002 WC, great teams like Holland, the Czech Rep., Romania, etc. all missed out on playing in the finals and now they want to add another to that list? Also, Asia getting 4 1/2 is really a lot too. Although Asia has it's moments on the international soccer stage, it overall is below par. CONCACAF getting 3 1/2 spots was a good thing I thought (and not just because I'm from the US) because there are very good teams which are constantly missing out (i.e. Guatemala, Honduras, etc.).

Like I have said about a million times, is that they should give all of the regions a certain amount of spots and then a half of a spot. Then take all of the half of a spot teams and make 1 group of 6, 1 from each region and play in a group stage for about 2 weeks at a neutral site (Germany?) with the top 3 qualifying. This would benefit every1, especially Australia because they would get to play more games against better competition and wouldn't be able to use the excuse that they only played 2 games and something flucky happened or that they had a bad game etc.

Overall though, the spots could be worse, so this is not that bad. Let's face it, the game is becoming more global, and these decisions were all not surprising. It's still going to be a very exciting and a very dramatic tournament. I can't wait until the Qualifying Round starts!

[Auriaprottu]

Originally posted by Jimbob
... don't see what all the griping from South America is all about. 9 World Cups means nothing when they were all won by the same three teams.



Friend, the other eight Cups were won by the same four teams. 9 Cups means a great deal, period, if you're evaluating worthiness to have more W/C finals spots.

In suggesting that because three nations were responsible for South America's tally you seem to be ignoring the fact that Brasil, Argentina and Uruguay are in South America. Their accomplishments are CONMEBOL's accomplishments. Oh, yeah- 40% of a conference's nations appearing in the Finals is more than justified when 30% of that conference's nations have won the World Cup.

[deejay]

I've been expecting 4.5 spots all the time and that's OK because if any South American nation can't beat the the last qualifier from some other Confederation then who cares if they go.

The Oceania thing is stupid. Everybody knows it.

You guys are dizzing South American nations like as if most of you had winning records against them. I think the US just managed it's first win at home over Ecuador IIRC. Not that I don't think that the US doesn't play good they do. But the level here is still the overall best and most even. Nobody but nobody has a better level of play. And excepting Venezuela they could all qualify, even if there were only three spots.

You guys are talking like Uruguay and Ecuador had their handed to them all tourney long. This has been one of the more forgetable World Cups for South America but it wasn't like we were stomped on. I seem to recall Uruguay outplayed Senegal and were very, very close to qualifying over them. Argentina were also only one goal away from qualifying even though they played the worst they ever have in recent memory. That leaves Ecuador, they were hardly pushovers during the tourney either.

People get real. In '94 cup at USA we had a forgettable tourney although Brazil did win. But in France we qualified nearly all our representatives out of group play. This World Cup was just a hiccup in our usual level of play.

[CHILENOOO]

Originally posted by Oscar
4 out of 10 teams from South America will still be going to the World Cup. That's 40% of their teams, STILL more than any other confed if I'm not mistaken (UEFA = 28%) should UEFA also send 40% of their teams just because their top teams have done good in the World Cup?

Oooh, Colombia and Chile won't be going! Shocking! :eek: Romania, Norway, Yugoslavia and the Netherlands (for God's sake!) didn't go for Europe, why shouldn't UEFA get more spots then (judging by the "Euro 2006" comment") while CONMEBOL should?


SA is divided in two groups...
G1: Argentina and Brazil - Always make it.

G2: Chile, Colombia, Uruguay, Paraguay, Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, and Venezuela - fight for a spot.

There will be only two spots left for 8 teams....This is what sucks....keeping in mind that OCEANIA has a fully FREE pass to the event....and by Oceania I mean Australia... OK?

I think that this is what everybody is saying....
I am not saying that we should have even a full spot...we are complaining because we lost that "half". I'm not saying that Europe should lose anything....If anything should happen....Europe should have even more spots...and one should be taken away from Africa and maybe one more from Asia too...

In my mind...the world cup is a tournament, where the Best go...if you allow Australia to go instead of Holland, or Spain, or Chile or Colombia....then that simply sucks.

[sinner78]

The aussies have got nothing to offer apart from a bunch of hackers like Kevin Muscat .
Its laughable that they get an automatic place...

[SoccerScout]

Auri EXCELLENT POINTS! In all of Europe they only have 4 World Champs (Italy, Germany, England, and France and the last 2 listed barely and only due to home field). So based on the other guys theory Europe wouldnt deserve 13 (!!!) spots, 14 with Germany!

From the way Pro Concacaf fans are talking, if Concacaf ever won a WC they would want 10 Spots!!! I mean you guys are saying Concacaf is worthy of 4 spots but South America is questionable at 4 1/2??? GET REAL!!!! ASIA with possibly 5 is an INSULT and AFRICA at 5 is another slap in the face.

[Heist]

Originally posted by SoccerScout
What a rip off. Out of all places to take a spot from the WC, Fifa decides to take it from THE MOST DOMINANT continent in the World, South America. SA has won 9 of 17 World Cups, has won more than 50% of Intercontinental club championships and usually only lose because the SAmerican teams are playing Euro teams using South American stars.

So what has been done is essentially hand a spot to Australia and eliminate a Uruguay, Paraguay, Colombia, Chile or even possibly a Brazil or Argentina.

FURTHER insult is that now Concacaf can get a 4th spot in a match against ASIA. Concacaf which has never been CLOSE to s WC final can get 4 spots while South America with 9 World Cups has 4. Asia has 4 spots just like SA!! Africa 5!!

SICKENING!

Joke...joke... joke. No matter what spin you put on it this is NOT right. South America is where the greatest talent comes from and shouldnt be punished because of politics.

Lets see whats wrong with this picture:

Europe 14 spots (8 WC Champs)
Africa 5 (0 WC Champs)
Asia 4 or 5 (0 WC Champs)
SA 4 (9 WC Champs)
NA/CA 3 or 4 (0 WC Champs)
Oce 1 (0 WC Champs)

COMEBOL should strike at the next World Cup . It would basicly become a Euro 2006.

I agree with your feeling, but not most of your arguments.
It was a rip off. I would have liked to see CONMEBOL 5 play CONCACAF 4.
Of those 9 championships only 3 countries have them, right? Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay. Those should still make it by being in the top 4. The teams that get stiffed are the mid-level South American Nations like Chile, Paraguay, and Ecuador. 2 of those guys will be staying home barring any upsets.

The intercontinental club cup is not an issue here. No one really cares about that competition.

The debate over whether South America or Europe has the best talent will continue to rage. I'd go for Europe because it has a higher number of top-level players I think albeit less flashy in many cases. I wouldn't mind seeing a Europe vs. South America all-star game, although It'll never happen.

I think CONCACAF got deserved recognition for its teams' play in the 2002 WC. I don't quite know why Oceania got an automatic spot though... they should have only a half to play against an Asian team, while North America Battles the South.

Is Asia really good enough to have 4.5 spots? South Korea and Japan should be in every year. Iran, China, and Saudi's are good...in Asia. Anyone i'm forgetting?
give 4 to Asia and 4.5 to CONMEBOL I say.

[vico]

Originally posted by Oscar
4 out of 10 teams from South America will still be going to the World Cup. That's 40% of their teams, STILL more than any other confed if I'm not mistaken (UEFA = 28%) should UEFA also send 40% of their teams just because their top teams have done good in the World Cup?

CONMEBOL deserves a much higher percentage than UEFA!! Just take look at stats OK? 30% of all southamerican teams have won the WC. Can you say the same thing about Europe? 40% of all southamerican teams have finished among the top 3 and thus won a WC medal. Can you say the same thing about Europe? 70% of all southamerican teams have qualified for the final round in a WC. Can you say the same thing about Europe?

I don't think so...

And also CONMEBOL = 9 WC titles, UEFA = 8 WC titles.

And take into account that the UEFA teams have more money than the CONMEBOL teams, there is 51 teams in UEFA and only 10 in CONMEBOL, the european clubs buy all the best southamerican players to make their leagues better, they buy the best southamerican coaches to coach their teams, UEFA has arranged the WC 9 times and CONMEBOL only 4 times, a european team has never won the WC outside Europe while southamerican countries have won the WC 5 times outside South America.

SOUTH AMERICA SHOULD HAVE THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE OF ALL CONFEDERATIONS END OF DISCUSSION!!!

SOUTH AMERICA SHOULD HAVE MORE SPOTS THAN AFRICA AND ASIA END OF DISCUSSION!!!

[Heist]

Originally posted by nicodemus
China beat the USA not too long ago.

When they were a team of college all-stars?
If it was pre 1996 or so that's what the US was.
China is better than a US college team, but Asia barely deserves 4, 3.5 would be more fair and a playoff with Oceania.

[mr magoo]

Originally posted by vico


SOUTH AMERICA SHOULD HAVE THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE OF ALL CONFEDERATIONS END OF DISCUSSION!!!

Europe Should because it has a higher concentration of good footballing nations

Originally posted by vico
SOUTH AMERICA SHOULD HAVE MORE SPOTS THAN AFRICA AND ASIA END OF DISCUSSION!!!

South america should have more spots than africa and asia put together.

[SoccerScout]

>>SOUTH AMERICA SHOULD HAVE MORE SPOTS THAN AFRICA AND ASIA END OF DISCUSSION!!!>>

The mere fact that AFRICA has 5 and ASIA has a possible 5 is the biggest disgrace of all. If AFRICAN Countries split up futher creating a continent with 100 nations, would we double or triple their spots?

Thats the problem, we are looking at HOW MANY NATIONS ARE THEIR IN THAT CONTINENT...and thats a BIG problem. South America only has 10, BUT 9 of the 10 can be quality teams.

Here is a strecth, imagine if South AMerican countries merged from 10 nations into just 5, then what? Give them only 1 or 2 spots? At that point the talent would be so condensed that all 5 should go. We have to stop looking at it as a percentage of nations and instead quality in the region.

["Simply Ken"]

The allocation for Asia is somewhat generous (but I'm not complaining:-), for Oceania outrageous, and for the rest of the confederations about right IMO.

The best system IMO would treat the OFC as part of the AFC preliminary rounds, with the 2 top OFC sides then competing with the other top Asian sides in the final qualifying rounds. In that system, an allocation of 4.5 for combined AFC/OFC would be right. A more generous allocations (for instance 5 automatic spots) could still be justified in the name of promoting the sport in the world's largest continent.

I would then give the other 0.5 spots (after 5 automatic spots for AFC/OFC combined) to Conembol, who would get a playoff against Concacaf.

[deejay]

Originally posted by mr magoo
Europe Should because it has a higher concentration of good footballing nations



Your argument is wrong. You don't have a better average level. CONMEBOL does and always has had.

90 percent of South American countries have qualified for the World Cup.

The last place team in our qualifiers was Chile. I would bet for Chile against the bottom half of the UEFA teams any time.

All our teams always come back home from WC with some points taken and some goals scored. Since 1950 we have never had a team embarress themselves like the S. Arabia and China or, let me remind you, Slovenia.

[vico]

Originally posted by mr magoo
Europe Should because it has a higher concentration of good footballing nations


Wrong. Europe has far more teams than South America. 51 compared to 10. But in percentage South America is much stronger. Are 20% of all european teams as strong as Brazil and Argentina? Cause Brazil and Argentina together represent 20% of all southamerican nations. If that is the case you should be able to mention 10 european teams that are on the same level.

There are a lot of crap teams in Europe that would lose to any southamerican team by a wide margin such as Malta, San Marino, Andorra, Moldavia, Azerbaijan and so on. Percentagewise South America is without a doubt the strongest continent. Just take into account that CONMEBOL is the smallest Confederation with only 10 members (OCF has 11) and yet they have won more than 50% of all WC titles!

Europe may have more top teams, teams that can be favourites to win the WC anytime such as France, Italy, Germany and maybe Spain if you want to be nice (Spain has never been as good as Argentina or Brasil) but that doesn't mean that the concentration of top teams is higher. It is only natural since Europe consists of more countries. Percentagewise CONMEBOL is without a doubt the strongest in WC history just take a look at the comparisons I made in my previous post and let's see if UEFA can match them!

And please don't compare teams like England or Portugal to Argentina or Brasil. Portugal had a golden generation that was very much hyped up due to some fix stars and a good performance in Euro2000 but they sucked in the WC. Their achievment is comparable to Colombia in WC94 who also were one of the favourites to win because of fix stars such as Valderrama and Asprilla and a very good performace in the qualification round (beating Argentina in Buenos Aires 5-0). And England has only won one WV back on 1966, since the they haven't won a medal in any tournament and that isn't better than what Uruguay has done.