GRAND THEFT. Fifa takes S. America spot

[El_Maestro]

Originally posted by Screech
1 game all is not exactly an arse kicking, and I am not surprised if Uruguay has won 2 world cups. Were either of those WCs actually held in Uruguay? If so then I would expect Uruguay to win because all of the opposition would have been attacked, spat on, threatened etc and thats before the games start. Almost as good as when Australia had to go to Iran and the supporters were shooting guns in the air when they scored.

I don't know man, but for me 3-0 is an arse kicking.

Uruguay did win its first WC at home, but the second one was in Brasil, against the home team in front of 200.000 fans in non other than Rio de Janeiro's Maracana stadium.

Now that's what I call knowing how to play on the road.

[Screech]

Some results from recent years:

2001 -
Australia 2 Mexico 0
Australia 1 France 0
Australia 1 Brazil 0
Australia 1 France 1
Australia 1 Uruguay 0

2000 -
Australia 3 Hungary 0
Australia 2 Paraguay 1
Australia 2 Scotland 0

1998 -
Australia 1 South Korea 0
Australia 0 USA 0

1997 -
Australia 2 South Korea 1
Australia 1 Norway 0
Australia 3 Hungary 1
Australia 1 Iran 1
Australia 2 Iran 2
Australia 3 Mexico 1
Australia 0 Brazil 0
Australia 1 Uruguay 0

[Bauser]

Australia deserves a fair chance like everyone else to qualify through group play and not have their whole campaign resting on a two legged affair with an unknown intercontinental opponent. To kick around Oceania minnows isn't exactly the best preparations you can have. Therefore they should have moved in to one of the two Asian final groups as one of five teams and qualified from there.

[El_Maestro]

Originally posted by Screech
Some results from recent years:

2001 -
Australia 2 Mexico 0
Australia 1 France 0
Australia 1 Brazil 0
Australia 1 France 1
Australia 1 Uruguay 0

2000 -
Australia 3 Hungary 0
Australia 2 Paraguay 1
Australia 2 Scotland 0

1998 -
Australia 1 South Korea 0
Australia 0 USA 0

1997 -
Australia 2 South Korea 1
Australia 1 Norway 0
Australia 3 Hungary 1
Australia 1 Iran 1
Australia 2 Iran 2
Australia 3 Mexico 1
Australia 0 Brazil 0
Australia 1 Uruguay 0

Uh, and out of all this bunch which ones were actually official?, and I don't mean that crappy Confed Cup that no one cares about.

[Alex_1]

Originally posted by Nobby

I agree that South America got the short end of the stick this time around. I bet many in FIFA think that way too. I know its small consolation to know that CONMEBOL sending 40% of its membership to the next WC is still a far higher percentage than any other confederation. My guess is if three or more SA teams advance out of the group phase, the allocation amount will return to 4.5 next time. If they're not playing the USA, I'll be rooting for them.

The tricky thing with SA is that even using the percentage doesn't really represent well. 40% seems like much, but in reality it is only 4 teams - the size of CONMEBOL becomes an issue as there is growing parity between nations, and really, there aren't the same kind of cakewalks that there were some years ago.


Uh, and out of all this bunch which ones were actually official?, and I don't mean that crappy Confed Cup that no one cares about

Japan 1 - 0 Australia
Uruguay 3-0 Australia

The results that were somehow forgotten on the list...

;)

[pololo]

Originally posted by Alex_1
The tricky thing with SA is that even using the percentage doesn't really represent well. 40% seems like much, but in reality it is only 4 teams - the size of CONMEBOL becomes an issue as there is growing parity between nations, and really, there aren't the same kind of cakewalks that there were some years ago.



Japan 1 - 0 Australia
Uruguay 3-0 Australia

The results that were somehow forgotten on the list...

;)

Or Brazil - Australia 7-0 final in the Confederation Cup final '97

[Thomas A Fina]

Several points here :

1) It's all about the votes - Africa and Oceania have many, I can't help but thinking about a tyranny of fecundity here, and about the corruption that goes on in FIFA. Throw 2006 to Germany, get a full spot. Bravo

2) Australia does not deserve a full spot, they haven't beaten anyone in a playoff and have shown a marked inability to win away.

3) Asia getting 4.5 spots is a disgusting joke. They should have lost a spot if nothing else. Were they not given an extra spot in '02 because of the fact that ******/SK were co-hosting? That should have been taken away.

4) I'm not going to argue against Africa getting 5 spots. Their play for the most part has been deserving of it. They put out some talented sides

5) I'm very happy that CONCACAF got an extra 1/2
spot, but I'm not sure that they deserve it. 3 seemed like a fair number. Although I would love for the US to get in via the playoffs so there could be some xenophobic bloodbaths ;).

6) In theory, yes, it was a movement of a half a spot between Oceania and South America. In reality, it was a movement of a full spot from South America to Oceania, because SA would win 90% of the time. That's why it IS a big deal

My breakdown :

Europe - 13
South America - 5
Africa - 5
Asia - 4
CONCACAF - 3.5
Oceania - .5

This seems most equitable.

One question : Why isn't Oceania part of Asia?

[Oscar]

edit: yes, I thought 'what the Hell, let's go for the 400!' ;)

Europe - 13
South America - 5
Africa - 5
Asia - 4
CONCACAF - 3.5
Oceania - .5

This seems most equitable

So taking away ½ spot from CONMEBOL "IS" a big deal, but taking away 2 spots from UEFA is a o k in the universe you live?

Gotta love that anti-UEFA train of thought :D

[Oscar]

Hmm, you're not counting the host nation..so I will change my remarks somewhat but still keep that smarty-ass feeling:

So CONMEBOL losing a ½ spot is criminally insane, while taking away 1 (count 'em) full spot from UEFA wouldn't keep you awake at night?

Gotta love that anti-UEFA train of thought

:D

[Craig the Aussie]

Originally posted by Thomas A Fina

One question : Why isn't Oceania part of Asia?

Beacause Asia wouldn't let them be

[Nobby]

Originally posted by Alex_1
The tricky thing with SA is that even using the percentage doesn't really represent well. 40% seems like much, but in reality it is only 4 teams...

Only 4.5 teams from Asia which has 44 members is also small by that reasoning.

[DoyleG]

Asia has 45 members now, East Timor is now an AFC member.

This would be a breakdown of spots in the World Cup to confederation membership. The UEFA number is the spots being fought for by UEFA. Therefore, Germany isn't included.

AFC
4.5 spots for 45 members.(1-10)

CONCACAF
3.5 spots for 35 members.(1-10)

CAF
5 spots for 52 members.(1-10.4)

OFC
1 spot for 11 members.(1-11)

UEFA
13 spots for 52 members.(1-4)

CONMEBOL
4 spots for 10 members.(1-2.5)

Most of the Confederations are equally represnted for Germany 2006. CONMEBOL is seen as being overrepresented.

[LotharDSM]

From over on the Oceania Board:

"Proposed Oceania qualification format for 2006
SBS today released the likely qualification process for Oceania for 2006.

Out of the 12 teams (New Caledonia are likely to be granted full Oceania membership), the top 4 will be seeded and bye. While the remaining 8 playoff. Not too sure whether the playoff is a knock-out or round-robin format.

The top 2 from the playoff series join the top 4 series in the final round group of 6 in a round-robin home and away format of 10 rounds over a 12 month period.

Current FIFA Rankings:

New Zealand 49
Australia 50
Tahiti 113
Fiji 140
--------------------
Solomon Islands 142
Vanuatu 156
Samoa 161
Papua New Guinea 167
Tonga 175
Cook Islands 182
American Samoa 201
* New Caledonia are the 7th best side in Oceania according to ELO Ratings"

So THE FIFA tournament for the World's theoretical top 32 teams, aka the World Cup, will have at least one rep from FIFA's currently very own defined over 49 crowd. splendid, hopefully they (Oz and NZ) will finally be able to play some higher ranked teams to get into the 30's come tournament time to make it somewhat respectable...

[Soccerfever]

Originally posted by Nobby
Only 4.5 teams from Asia which has 44 members is also small by that reasoning.

It is,but it's also a week confederation with a very few powerhouses who can compete with the rest of the world!

[Alex_1]

Originally posted by Nobby
Only 4.5 teams from Asia which has 44 members is also small by that reasoning.

Ah, you fell for the trap. 40% of those teams... now look at the bottom 60% of the teams of CONMEBOL. They would be the top teams in Asia. ;)

Most of the Confederations are equally represnted for Germany 2006. CONMEBOL is seen as being overrepresented.

Not by most...

[El Cabrito]

Originally posted by Screech
'98 World Cup - Australia went undefeated through qualifying but missed out because they drew with Iran

To put it real simple to go Undefeated in CONMEBOL is infinantly harder than going Undefeated in OCEANA.

[Mc.Nitro3000]

Originally posted by El Cabrito
To put it real simple to go Undefeated in CONMEBOL is infinantly harder than going Undefeated in OCEANA.
yeah dat aint really fair

[argentine soccer fan]

Originally posted by Sachin
Actually, they only took a half-spot away from South America.

I would argue that they took 1 and a half spots from South America.

One, because historically they have won the playoff for the last spot every single time. That spot is practically automatic for the fifth place South American team.

And half, because they also took away the spot of the defending champion,which South America gets half of the time.

This is all about politics. South America got robbed, and so did Europe. Does anybody want to argue against the fact that the best teams consistently come from these two areas?

[argentine soccer fan]

I don't want to knock Australia. I thought this year's team was better than four years ago. They have a number of players who do well in Europe and a genuine star in Kewell. In my opinion, they would have had a great chance of qualifying if they played in Asia, or Concacaf. But not in South America. South America is strong from top to bottom. I think you take Chile, which finished last, and they have a chance to qualify in another conference. If anything, Oceania should have gotten a spot from Asia or Concacaf. But it doesn't matter. We can get pissed at FIFA but in four years the World Cup will still be the greatest show on earth, and the cream of the crop will rise to the top, regardless of the politics.

[Merengue]

Originally posted by argentine soccer fan
I would argue that they took 1 and a half spots from South America.

One, because historically they have won the playoff for the last spot every single time. That spot is practically automatic for the fifth place South American team.

And half, because they also took away the spot of the defending champion,which South America gets half of the time.

This is all about politics. South America got robbed, and so did Europe. Does anybody want to argue against the fact that the best teams consistently come from these two areas?

Absolutely right argentine soccer fan. This IS all about politics. From a sporting perspective it obviously makes no sense. Unfortunately Europe and South America paid the price so Blatter could grease the politcial palms of his allies. Curiously South America was solidly behind his reelection campaign last summer.

As you mentioned in your subsequent post, the bottom line is it won't effect who wins the World Cup but it does effect the overall quality of the play. If this system of qualification had been in place for World Cup 2002, Uruguay. who was a missed sitter by Richard Morales from qualifying for the 2nd round and eliminating quarterfinalists Senegal, wouldn't have been in the World Cup. Their spot would have been taken by Australia. And Ireland, who made the 2nd round and nearly advanced to the quarterfinals (losing on penalties to España) would have been replaced by the winner of a playoff between Iran and Honduras. I don't think anyone would argue that the World Cup would have been better for the absence of Uruguay and Ireland.