GRAND THEFT. Fifa takes S. America spot

[Oscar]

Seriously man, you're cracking me up :D What the Hell does this...

Personally I think that its funny that only 2 (TWO!!) Euro nations ever won a World Cup outside of their own country. Italy and Germany.

bla bla bla bla

The data makes it evident that there is NO COMPARISION between South America (1st Tier) and Europe (2nd tier).

..have to do with the rest of the CONMEBOL teams not being that great at all, and losing that ½ spot isn't the 'grand theft' you make it out to be? Ooh ooh, I know. Absolutely nothing. :)

Nobody is saying Brasil and Argentina aren't good, yet you seem to feel the need to cram good stats our way which were made by these two teams, once again:

Other CONMEBOL vs. non-CONMEBOL.......8-22-17

p.s. What the hell are you complaining about Europe anyway, when they allready send less teams to a WC %-wise than South America, and they also lost their ½ spot in 2006. Weirdo.

[Alex_1]

Originally posted by Oscar
Personally I thought the funny thing is most South Americans on this forum talk as if Brasil and Argentina's succes in the World Cup magically makes the other South American teams good as well.


:rolleyes:

And I thought the funny thing was how a few European football "fans" hardly watch South American football yet seem to have this mystical knowledge about the strength of South American football through and through.

I guess it's just the nature of armchair experts.

Again, my problem wasn't about UEFA - it's their problem. But the same argument could be made for UEFA that I have for CONMEBOL. The generally, and historically, stronger confederations lost out - while the big winner was Asia, who had the two worst finishers, and CAF, who maybe equaled their "success" of 1998. Want to give Oceana a spot? Fine. Take it from CAF. Issue more half-spots. Listen, if Oceana is hell bent to receive a spot then so be it. But they should have left CONMEBOL with that half a spot - and I'd say UEFA with at least half a spot.

**Imagine that. A UEFA/CONMEBOL playoff. Maybe that would satisfy those in here spewing some of the useless UEFA vs. CONMEBOL bantar.

[LotharDSM]

Originally posted by astar24
CAF should not lose a spot, besides Brazil we did as well as CONMEBOL, 1 team in the final 8
CONCACAF should not be rewarded, Costa Rica didnt advance and USA & Mexico played each other in the round of sixteen so the fact that n.america had a team in the final 8 is irrelevant. AFC(Asia) on the other hand did nothing for 4.5 spot, and neither did OCEANIA. UEFA =14 spots is already too much almost 1/2 of the tournament, so they shouldnt complain.
Past world cups mean nothing. African teams only had an automatic bid starting in 1970. So basing wc allocations on results and history before that is wrong.

CAF had one team in the final 8, but they also only had 1 team in the final 16 as well. 1 out of 5 is good? By pure luck there should have at least been 2 in the round of 16. I think it would be fair to make it 3 automatic spots for CAF then have the ability for 2 play-in spots vs. AFC, OFC, etc. where they'd have to earn it to get in.
CONCACAF shouldn't be rewarded for having 2 of 3 make it to the round of 16 with the 3rd only missing out on goal differential? You're right, the US played Mexico to get 1 into the round of 8. That sucked, we should have had the opportunity to put 2 into the round of 8 instead, but we'll never know.

[Oscar]

And I thought the funny thing was how a few European football "fans" hardly watch South American football yet seem to have this mystical knowledge about the strength of South American football through and through

:D

The strength of the other South American teams is reaching the 2nd round (if that) in the last 12 years (we could go back to the stone age, but that doesn't really have any relevance today don't ya think?) this while in those 12 years the top teams from the 'weak' confeds have also made it to the 2nd round or even gone further.

There's not much difference (at all?) between the top teams from the 'weak' confederations and the sub-top from Europe and South America, also shown by Australia beating Uruguay at home (if they really are as bad as some here say, don't you think Uruguay would have won both matches if they were that 'superior'?) and Ireland having a tough time with Iran.

It's not a big deal the 2 top confeds lost a ½ spot, much less a 'grand theft'.

You want your armchair back?

[RichardL]

Very simply, hands up all those who think that Asia deserves more spots than South America. Anyone?

[wu-tang beez]

This is stupid. How can FIFA justify giving an extra half slot to asia at the expense of SA? Africa shoulda lost 1/2 slot and forced into a playoff w/ ASIA. I'm all for UEFA losing a half spot and forced to earn it in playoff.

[Alex_1]

No. I'm finding it quite comfortable on my podium, actually. ;)

You put too much stock into the Australia match. But very well. Let's revisit the match. It was a close match in Australia - Uruguay looked lack-luster and were clearly trying to obtain a 1-0 win or 0-0 draw. Australia was the ambitious side but found it difficult to score against a solid defense (not extraordinary, but solid). Uruguay penetrated Australia's defense, but as the match wore on, Australia started to counter, and Uruguay became reckless. In the end, Australia won on their home field - via a stupid penalty by the Uruguayan defender in the box. And of course, when the match returned to Montevideo, we know the outcome.

Uruguay actually did attack, and ripped them a new one with 3 goals. Uruguay, even in the match they lost, still showed IMO that they were the better side. They just didn't obtain the result. I do not think that Australia has a horrible football team. I do think that Australia is in a sub-par football confederation that do shouldn't receive a direct spot.

Point is, for competitions sake, they take a spot out of the top two and allocate it to Asia, Oceana, wherever. They did not warrant the spot. CONCACAF - okay. Clearly improved, gaining relatively consistent results (besides the abberation that was Mexico prior to WC 2002). But CAF with five?

So clearly it is not so much about the competition. Fair enough. But now the real question is - just how far down is the level of competitiveness heading?

Well... speaking of Australia:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/newsStory?id=252469&cc=5901

They have clearly already booked their hotel reservations. :rolleyes: I'm sure leeds will be jumping for joy to let Okon, Viduka and Kewell go off and face the tough nation of Fiji...

[wu-tang beez]

If you don't stop your whining right now I swear to God I'm gonna fly over and beat the crap out of you with a big spiked bat

b4 you go spiked bat on him don't forget to grab his nuts and lay 'em on a dresser. & then BAM!!!

[cosmosRIP]

This is where the teams eliminated in the 1st round of the last two finals where from and the order in which they finished

2002
17. Africa(2)
18. S.America(3)
19. CONCACAF(3)
20. Africa(3)
21. Europe(10)
22. Europe(11)
23. Europe(12)
24. S.America(4)
25. S.America(5)
26. Europe(13)
27. Africa(4)
28. Europe(14)
29. Africa(5)
30. Europe(15)
31. Asia(3)
32. Asia(4)

1998
17. Europe(11)
18. Africa(2)
19. Europe(12)
20. Asia(1)
21. S.America(5)
22. CONCACAF(2)
23. Europe(13)
24. Africa(3)
25. Africa(4)
26. Africa(5)
27. Europe(14)
28. Asia(2)
29. Europe(15)
30. Asia(3)
31. Asia(4)
32. CONCACAF(3)

S.America(5) has more than held their own, they should be gaining a spot. Asia(3) & Asia(4) have not been competitive they should be losing the spot(s).

[Oscar]

Bah! The armchair is too comfy to give back anway :p

If you agree that Australia have a decent side, then I don't see why people have got a problem with Oceania gaining a ½ spot so much. It's a full confederation, and the only one that didn't even send at least 1 representative to the World Cup. Even if the federation is weak overall now, the one team they will send is at least halfway decent (hello China!)

That ½ spot Oceania received by the by, after inspecting it carefully it appeared to be the ½ place Europe lost and not CONMEBOL's one (it smelled better) so if you want to complain about feds gaining places, look at the one that actually has less of a claim to gain spots and the one that most likely actually took South America's spot: the Asians (yep, still trying to get them here for triple fun :( )

[Alex_1]

Originally posted by wu-tang beez
If you don't stop your whining right now I swear to God I'm gonna fly over and beat the crap out of you with a big spiked bat

b4 you go spiked bat on him don't forget to grab his nuts and lay 'em on a dresser. & then BAM!!!

Take an old hanger, put heat it up and.... Or take a rusty screw driver and... no wait, you know these already. :D

Can't say I really understand the format you used cosmos. I don't think that S. America should really gain a full-spot to be honest. I just think they should have 4.5 or at most, 5 spots.

The qualification will be very interesting then. More fire for already and always under fire managers after three matches. :rolleyes:. But that half spot was very important to CONMEBOL - remember that for 2002, it came down to the very last match for Colombia and Uruguay. Now, look for Argentina to hold constant, Brazil to actually schedule meaningful friendlies in the interim, and Colombia to surge.

[Guinho]

Originally posted by cosmosRIP
This is where the teams eliminated in the 1st round of the last two finals where from and the order in which they finished


The order is irrelevant, since you are comparing results from non-comparable groups. However, almost every analysis of the stats I've seen that doesn't rely on aggregate stats suggests that African and especially over represented, Concacaf and UEFA more or less correct and South America is underrepresented.

Guinho

[cosmosRIP]

Looking at only one WC they wouldn't mean too much but when the same confederation's teams are at the bottom 2 finals in a row I think it's telling you something.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by cosmosRIP
Looking at only one WC they wouldn't mean too much but when the same confederation's teams are at the bottom 2 finals in a row I think it's telling you something.

The US was at the bottom in '98.

[pololo]

Ok lets look at the results from each of these Federation from 1982 where AFC,CAF,OFC and all confederations where presented.
I didn't put UEFA here cause we all know they have too much teams presented,like 50% or more are from UEFA.

1982
AFC: Kuwait
CAF: Cameroun,Algeria
OFC: New Zealand
Conmebol:Brazil,Peru,Argentina,Chile
Concacaf:Honduras,El Salvador

AFC:Failed to reach the finals

CAF:Very close where Cameroun where unbeated in their group with total 3 points(all draws)
Algeria is a sad story they won against Germany and lost to Austria but won against Chile,they had total 4 points and were robbed when Austria and Germany(brother countries)made a plan so they both reach through,so they played a 1-0 Germany win.
But anyhow many witnessed the talent and emerging power from the Africans.

OFC:Failed

Conmebol:Two reached the second round Argentina and Brazil and they played in the same group,we must remember that in this tournament they played a group finals with three teams,only the nr 1 team get through the semi finals.
Argentina lost their both games.Brazil won against Argentina and needed only a draw against Italy but they lost with 3-2 in one of the best games in history.

Concacaf:both failed

AFC 0/1
CAF 0/2
OFC 0/1
Conmebol 2/4
Concacaf 0/2

[El_Maestro]

Originally posted by Oscar
That ½ spot Oceania received by the by, after inspecting it carefully it appeared to be the ½ place Europe lost and not CONMEBOL's one (it smelled better)

I guess you've never been near a French, a German or a Spaniard, THEY STINK!!

We Southamericans have this "weird" custom that may seem strange to most of you Euro folks; we take a shower everyday.

[pololo]

1986

AFC:South Korea,Iraq
CAF:Algeria,Morocco
OFC:None(Australia won their Oceanian group which include New Zealand,Israel and Taiwan.
The playoff was against the second team from the group 7 of the UEFA,which was Scotland.
Australia lost the away game with 2-0 and got a draw in Melbourne 0-0)
Conmebol:Argentina,Paraguay,Brazil,Uruguay
Concacaf:Mexico,Canada

AFC:Both Failed
CAF:Morocco reached the second round.
Conmebol:All of them reached the finals.Argentina won the Cup
Concacaf:Mexico reached the quarters at their home soil and lost with penalties against Germany.Canada lost all their games.

AFC: 0/2
CAF: 1/2
Conmebol:4/4
Concacaf:1/2

[bolas]

Originally posted by CHILENOOO
Agreed on the quality of Southamerica after Brazil and Argentina...

The thing that I'm complaining about is that Oceania got one...when any "fifth" ranked team in Southamerica can beat them...

I like the idea that the last post gave...

5th in SA
4th in Concacaf
African team
Asian team
and Australia (oceania) should compete for a couple of spots

The world cup is ALREADY global....EVERY TEAM (most nations) in the world try to qualify....

THAT MAKES IT GLOBAL....the final tournament is just a celebration...a party....only the best should go....NOT Australia every time.

TOTALLY AGREE!

[pololo]

1990

AFC:South Korea,UAE
CAF:Cameroun,Egypt
OFC:none(Australia lost the Oceania group which included Israel and New Zealand,The Israelians won that group and played a playoff against Colombia which they lost.
Conmebol:Brazil,Argentina,Uruguay,Colombia
Concacaf:Costa Rica,USA

AFC:failed

CAF:Cameroun reached the quarters.This is where African football got their respect and won more spots.

Conmebol:All teams reached the finals.

Concacaf:Costa Rica reached the second round

AFC: 0/2
CAF: 1/2
Conmebol: 4/4
Concacaf: 1/2

[Oscar]

We Southamericans have this "weird" custom that may seem strange to most of you Euro folks; we take a shower everyday

I've been to South America, and let me tell you, washing yourself with the water that comes out of the facet over there won't make you clean. ;)

Sh¡t, couldn't even drink the stuff without getting sick, and that's not even a friendly-jab. :(