GRAND THEFT. Fifa takes S. America spot

[deejay]

One last thing:

Some people are saying we're whining about losing a half spot.

Actually we're complaining about a half spot and also the fact that for the first time the Cup champion doesn't go automatically. That's a heck of a lot.

[Fkesoccer]

What an injustice.
This truly shows that FIFA is corrupted, and that the sport soccer is not soccer anymore. Eevrything is for money now, and soccer will never be the same with these type of influences with the confederation.

Leave Africa with 3 spots,asia with 3,and oceania with .5

[Guinho]

Originally posted by SoccerScout

Other than Venezuela...no way. The Top 2 Concacaf (US & Mexico) can get pretty even with mid level South Americans (like Chile, Paraguay etc..) but thats about it.

Are you forgetting the fact that Mexico has only once finished lower than third in the Copa Americas it has competed in, and the time it didn't make the final 4, it was eliminated on penalties......by the US! The notion that Mexico is only mid level isn't borne out on the playing field. And these days, we all know who the top dog in Concacaf is.....

Guinho

[Knave]

Hey! Don't make me pull the car over!

Enough with hug-smack and gay-smack. Take it to the rivalry board if you must but it won't be tolerated on the FIFA & WC board.

PM with questions.

[Oscar]

party pooper

:)

[Rocket]

Here're some stats (W-L-T) for UEFA (WC Finals 1982-2002):

UEFA vs. non-UEFA.........................................95-57-43

Germany/Italy/England/France vs. non-UEFA......37-10-11
Other UEFA vs. non-UEFA................................58-47-32


For comparison, here're stats for CONMEBOL (WC Finals 1982-2002):

CONMEBOL vs. non-CONMEBOL......................52-34-21

Argentina/Brazil vs. non-CONMEBOL..................44-12-4
Other CONMEBOL vs. non-CONMEBOL...............8-22-17

[SoccerScout]

Anyone know the ALLTIME UEFA x COMEBOL in WC games?

[Rocket]

Originally posted by SoccerScout
Anyone know the ALLTIME UEFA x COMEBOL in WC games?
It's pretty even.

According to RSSSF, CONMEBOL was 18-17-12 (W-L-T) vs. UEFA from 1982-1994 inclusive.

From 1930-1994 inclusive, CONMEBOL was 68-54-34 vs. UEFA.

[SoccerScout]

>>From 1930-1994 inclusive, CONMEBOL was 68-54-34 vs. UEFA.>>

Yet another clear STAT showing the overall better soccer coming from South America.

S.A. More WC's, more World Club Champs, more WC wins vs Euro ... the list goes on....

PS: Where you getting all these stats from?

[Rocket]

Originally posted by SoccerScout
PS: Where you getting all these stats from?
Some of the stats I crunched out on my own, but most of them can be found in one form or another at:

http://www.rsssf.com/archive.html

[Bauser]

Some stats updated by WC 2002:

Below you can see which continents most likely to win against a team from another continent.

<pre><font size=+0>
South America 232 matches >> 108 wins = 46.55%
Europe 348 matches >> 159 wins = 45.69%
Africa 74 matches >> 16 wins = 21.62%
N/C America 88 matches >> 19 wins = 21.59%
Asia 60 matches >> 9 wins = 15.00%
Oceania 6 matches >> 0 wins = 00.00%
</font></pre>

Below you can see stats of which continents best at avoiding defeat when facing a team from another continent:

<pre><font size=+0>
Europe 348 matches >> 241 undefeated = 69.25%
South America 232 matches >> 160 undefeated = 68.97%
Africa 74 matches >> 39 undefeated = 52.70%
N/C America 88 matches >> 36 undefeated = 40.91%
Asia 60 matches >> 20 undefeated = 33.33%
Oceania 6 matches >> 1 undefeated = 16.67%
</font></pre>

[Alex_1]

This thread went down the toilet. OH well. Don't get why it became all about UEFA vs. CONMEBOL. I don't really care about the UEFA spots. But CONMEBOL shouldn't have lost half a spot. At the least the confederation should have kept that. THe consequences of diluting the WC I guess will have to be seen in the next WC, and so on as the competition level decreases.

[Oscar]

Yet another clear STAT showing the overall better soccer coming from South America.

Have you forgotten what we are talking about here? Let me refresh your memory:

Other CONMEBOL vs. non-CONMEBOL.........8-22-17

Which is the point of all this after all, that the CONMEBOL teams which aren't Argentina and Brasil aren't as great as you people are trying to make them out to be. Plus that South America losing that ½ spot, which will keep a team that hasn't made it beyond the 2nd group stage for 12 years now at home (because Brasil and Argentina will qualify in the most probable scenario) isn't that big a deal.

[El_Maestro]

Originally posted by vw
Here's how the six federations have done in inter-federation games at the last 6 World Cup Finals (1982-2002):

UEFA...........95-57-43
CONMEBOL...52-34-21
Africa.............15-29-20
CONCACAF....13-26-9
Asia................9-35-7
Oceania...........0-3-0

So, yes, CONMEBOL teams, at 52-34-21, have done pretty well against their competitors from UEFA, Africa, etc.

Not too surprisingly, though, CONMEBOL's success at the most recent World Cups is largely due to Brazil and Argentina:

Argentina/Brazil vs. non-CONMEBOL: 44-12-4
Other CONMEBOL vs. non-CONMEBOL: 8-22-17

So as you can see, take away Argentina and Brazil and you have a federation that while more successful than Asia and Oceania, is only on a par with CONCACAF and has poorer results in the WC finals than does Africa.

The funny thing is that most non Southamericans in this forums talk like if Brasil and Argentina were located in a different place than the rest of Conmebol.

THEY ARE BOTH SOUTHAMERICANS.

It's like if I said that UEFA deserved just 2 spots in the WC for Germany's and Italy's 6 combined championships.

[Rocket]

Here's a ranking of national teams based on their W-L-T success from 1930 thru 2002 at the World Cup Finals (win = 3pts; draw = 1 pt):

CONMEBOL............UEFA.............CONCACAF.........CAF..................AFC

1. Brazil....................................................
......................2. Italy...............................
......................3. W. Germany.....................
4. Argentina...............................................
......................5. England...........................
......................6. France............................
......................7. Spain..............................
......................8. Yugoslavia.......................
......................9. Sweden...........................
10. Uruguay...............................................
.....................11. Netherlands......................
.....................12. USSR..............................
.....................13. Hungary..........................
.....................14. Poland............................
.....................15. Germany..........................
...................................................16. Mexico
.....................17. Austria...........................
.....................18. Belgium...........................
.....................19. Czechoslovakia.................
.....................20. Romania..........................
21. Chile....................................................
.....................22. Denmark..........................
23. Paraguay..............................................
.....................24. Portugal..........................
.....................25. Switzerland......................
...................................................26. USA
..........................................................................27. Cameroon
.....................28. Scotland..........................
.....................29. Croatia............................
.....................30. Bulgaria...........................
.....................31. Turkey............................
32. Peru....................................................
........................................................................................................33. S. Korea
.....................34. Ireland............................
.....................35. N. Ireland........................
..........................................................................36. Nigeria
37. Colombia...............................................
...................................................38. Costa Rica
..........................................................................39. Morocco
.....................40. Norway............................

[Oscar]

The funny thing is that most non Southamericans in this forums talk like if Brasil and Argentina were located in a different place than the rest of Conmebol.

Personally I thought the funny thing is most South Americans on this forum talk as if Brasil and Argentina's succes in the World Cup magically makes the other South American teams good as well.

It's like saying - hmm..a European team that made it to the World Cup in the last 12 years, but couldn't even make it beyond the 2nd stage - Switzerland has to go to the World Cup because they come from the same region as Germany/Italy and thus must be as good as them in the WC.

It's not a big deal UEFA lost a ½ spot, and it's no big deal CONMEBOL lost a ½ spot (again, who still send more teams from their region %-wise than any other confed)

[SoccerScout]

>>Personally I thought the funny thing is >>

Personally I think that its funny that only 2 (TWO!!) Euro nations ever won a World Cup outside of their own country. Italy and Germany.

NOT ONE other Euro Nation maganed to win a World Cup that was played anywhere outside of their homeland. That just shows you how weak Euro soccer is when played on foreign soil.

50 something UEFA NAtions and only 2....

meanwhile all 3 South AMerican Champs have won a WC outside their nation. As a matter of fact Brasil has won 5 outside of Brasil! On all possible continents to boot!

The data makes it evident that there is NO COMPARISION between South America (1st Tier) and Europe (2nd tier).

[astar24]

CAF should not lose a spot, besides Brazil we did as well as CONMEBOL, 1 team in the final 8
CONCACAF should not be rewarded, Costa Rica didnt advance and USA & Mexico played each other in the round of sixteen so the fact that n.america had a team in the final 8 is irrelevant. AFC(Asia) on the other hand did nothing for 4.5 spot, and neither did OCEANIA. UEFA =14 spots is already too much almost 1/2 of the tournament, so they shouldnt complain.


Past world cups mean nothing. African teams only had an automatic bid starting in 1970. So basing wc allocations on results and history before that is wrong.

[AFCA]

Originally posted by SoccerScout
>>Personally I thought the funny thing is >>

Personally I think that its funny that only 2 (TWO!!) Euro nations ever won a World Cup outside of their own country. Italy and Germany.

NOT ONE other Euro Nation maganed to win a World Cup that was played anywhere outside of their homeland. That just shows you how weak Euro soccer is when played on foreign soil.

50 something UEFA NAtions and only 2....

meanwhile all 3 South AMerican Champs have won a WC outside their nation. As a matter of fact Brasil has won 5 outside of Brasil! On all possible continents to boot!

The data makes it evident that there is NO COMPARISION between South America (1st Tier) and Europe (2nd tier).

If you don't stop your whining right now I swear to God I'm gonna fly over and beat the crap out of you with a big spiked bat.

You're like a scratched CD... the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

That's bad enough. But everytime you say it you drag another irrelevant point into it. Like Europe having 50 nations. How many people are there in S.A.?

Europe and S.A. are close enough. Brazil produces a lot of excellent players. But your statements that European football would be a lot less without Brazilians is laughable. Mr Makaay for one wouldn't agree.

Stop your whining because what you say simply isn't true. You know why there a re so much talented young Brazilian footballers? Because they cost 1/4 or less of the same European footballer (with a little less flair pherhaps). Cheap talent is what it's all about. Wether it's from Africa, S.A., Scandinavia (not even that cheap), Eastern Europe or your own club where they try to find talent as early as possible around the country.

[AFCA]

And goodmorning :D