So it's good that CONCACAF gets a playoff..

[counterattack]

Originally posted by maczebus
Well if that's your argument then why not just invite everyone along?
Because as sure as eggs is eggs, 48 spots won't be enough either for those teams that don't make it.
A few years ago there were only 24 teams involved, and that obviously didn't stop the bickering as to who should get to go.
There has to be a cut off point as to who can go.

Besides, increasing the number of sides that get to attend will only further reduce the number of countries (or combination of countries) that actually have the ability to host an event of such magnitude. There are few enough as it is.

Now, you are just being silly. To use your logic, why have 32, 24, or even 12. Just have the top four teams and let everyone argue over who that is. Get real. Personally, I wouldn't stop at 48. I think the full tournament should be 64. And, as for hosts countries, are you kidding? Numerous countries have hosted the Olympics, with thousands of athletes, thousands of reporters, hundreds of countries, and the World Cup is how much more? No it ain't. Why not have the world cup hosted by continents, and not countries? I am sure 64 sides can fit very easily into Europe, South America, North America, Africa and Asia. And do NOT respond by saying something EPL lame like it has never been done. So what? Sometimes, new ideas are actually better ideas.

[nicodemus]

Originally posted by counterattack
Numerous countries have hosted the Olympics, with thousands of athletes, thousands of reporters, hundreds of countries, and the World Cup is how much more? No it ain't.

Infinitely more people travel to the World Cup than they do the Olympics.

Why not have the world cup hosted by continents, and not countries?

Because it strips away from the personality of the event. Americans only experienced Korea in the past world cup and not japan.

Finally, regarding the 64 teams thing. The tournament would last forever, and there's only so many games the human body can take at that level in a short period of time.

[JoBeck]

Originally posted by xenaphobia
Agree entirely

More debate should be made of the extra spots to CONCACAF and AFC than Oceania's 1/2 spot

CONCACAF is a joke apart from the US & Mexico and the US apart from their lucky run in 2002 WC have been a joke in the WC

Canada, Jamacia and co are no better than New Zealand or Fiji

Of course just mentioning this the CONCACAF marks around here will be up in arms!

And let's not mention Saudi Arabia & China ....

South Amercia should feel ripped off but more so at Asia & CONCACAF than poor little Oceania

CONCACAF had two of its three teams make it to the second round at the last World Cup. Those two teams made it to the second round, and who knows if they would have had 0, 1, or both teams make it to the quarters had they not met?

As for Asia, besides Korea making it to the semifinals, Japan got knocked out in the second round--not particularly impressive for a host nation. The other two teams, China and Saudi Arabia, each lost all three games with a combined 21 goals against and 0 goals for.

CONCACAF has something to prove--that their federation is deeper than what most people think. The extra playoff spot is certainly a good way to prove it. Asia, on the other hand, already proved that team for team, they can't hack it with the big boys. They do not deserve the extra half-spot (or whole spot compared to 1998 because it had two host nations this summer).

[nicodemus]

part of the problem with Asia in their qualifying structure. Iran is stronger than Saudi Arabia or China, but because of their ludicrous system, they had to go to the playoff against Ireland.

["Simply Ken"]

The following recent article from the AFC site gives a good glimpse of how the confederation measures itself.

<a href="http://www.asian-football.com/scripts/runisa.dll?m2:gp::39913+mrel/news+48147+E ">More than anybody else, Iran have the ability to challenge the traditional powers of the world. They are physically well endowed and have a lovely football style and culture. </a></A>

[Maczebus]

Originally posted by nicodemus
Technically everyone is invited along. The World Cup actually includes all of the qualifying. The month long event every four years that everyone looks so forward to is actually the World Cup Finals.

Err. gee thanks for that illustration.

You know what I meant.Why not just dispense with the qualifying and so everyone can go to the FINALS?

Having more FINALS spaces will not solve anything.

[Maczebus]

Originally posted by counterattack
Sometimes, new ideas are actually better ideas.

And sometimes, as indicated by others on here, new ideas aren't.

As for your point about the Olympics, yes plenty of countries have hosted the event. But as with the WC, it hasn't always been the size it is today.
Hell, Athens is having enough problems getting ready for 2004.

[nicodemus]

Originally posted by maczebus
Err. gee thanks for that illustration.

You know what I meant.Why not just dispense with the qualifying and so everyone can go to the FINALS?

Having more FINALS spaces will not solve anything.

My comments weren't actually at you, they were more directed at the comments you were responding to. I just thought it made more sense to add my comments to yours.

[AFCA]

Originally posted by nicodemus
The month long event every four years that everyone looks so forward to

Yes it's an incredible thing isn't it? I was in Surinam this year when they played it and I remember very well how I didn't want to hear, see or know anything about it since we weren't there... but there's no way to keep that up. You just have to watch as many matches as you possibly can... weird stuff.

And I'll never forget having to tell everyone that the Dutch do NOT support Germany when we are out. We support their opposition. They didn't quite understand.

[Maczebus]

Originally posted by nicodemus
My comments weren't actually at you, they were more directed at the comments you were responding to. I just thought it made more sense to add my comments to yours.

Ok, sorry - a little over sensitive.

Feel free to support my opinions in the future :D
I promise I won't be a wanker. I'll try at least.

[Jay510]

Originally posted by xenaphobia
Agree entirely

More debate should be made of the extra spots to CONCACAF and AFC than Oceania's 1/2 spot

CONCACAF is a joke apart from the US & Mexico and the US apart from their lucky run in 2002 WC have been a joke in the WC

Canada, Jamacia and co are no better than New Zealand or Fiji

Of course just mentioning this the CONCACAF marks around here will be up in arms!

And let's not mention Saudi Arabia & China ....

South Amercia should feel ripped off but more so at Asia & CONCACAF than poor little Oceania




Xeno, you are kidding right.....you think Fiji and New Zealand are as good as Canada and Jamaica.....Jamaica and Canada's "new" (theyve made great strides in the past 2 years would wipe the floor with every team in Oceania and would give Australia great games....Hell Jamaica won a game at WC 1998.....

I can tell you this, had Honduras made the cup with the other 3, you wouldnt be giving me this crap.....they would have made it to round 2 as well...Costa Rica went toe to toe with the WC champ and a semifinalist, USA made the 1/4 and Mexico is always mexico......

[Heist]

Originally posted by Jay510
Xeno, you are kidding right.....you think Fiji and New Zealand are as good as Canada and Jamaica.....Jamaica and Canada's "new" (theyve made great strides in the past 2 years would wipe the floor with every team in Oceania and would give Australia great games....Hell Jamaica won a game at WC 1998.....

I can tell you this, had Honduras made the cup with the other 3, you wouldnt be giving me this crap.....they would have made it to round 2 as well...Costa Rica went toe to toe with the WC champ and a semifinalist, USA made the 1/4 and Mexico is always mexico......

I like Concacaf as much as the next guy and think Costa Rica's performance was as important as Mexico's.
Honduras could have done well in the last cup and will fight for the half spot. T&T, Jamaica, and Canada are all teams that every 4 years have a shot to do okay in the cup, but I think they'll have trouble ever staying as good as Mexico or the US, or even Costa Rica.

But Xena is right, apart from last year the US has stunk it up when its made it to the Finals. Although that's the past, the US is here to stay in world soccer. We are only going to get better until we are a perennial top 10 or 12 team. At that point we'll have reached our peak and we will go up and down much like the other top teams in the world do right now.
Xena also said Mexico is Mexico... yeah, almost always making it to the second round, but only making it farther than that once. They are a good top 10-20 team in the world. I doubt they'll ever make it much higher than that for an extended period of time or much lower. They and the US will constantly be leapfrogging each other although I think the US will be on top more often for the forseable future.

[Heist]

Originally posted by Jay510
Xeno, you are kidding right.....you think Fiji and New Zealand are as good as Canada and Jamaica

How the heck did I gloss over this part of Xeno's post!?!?

Fiji is so far behind Jamaica and Canada and New Zealand for that matter.

FIFA rankings:
(yes I know they are flawed, but accurate within 5-10 places I think)
New Zealand - 49
Jamaica - 51


Canada - 70









Fiji - 140


Your argument for New Zealand is great, and I agreed with it before even looking at the rankings, but Fiji? PLEASE don't make yourself sound stupid!
Fiji beating Canada would be a HUGE upset.
Turkmenistan and Thailand are ahead of Fiji... so is whipping boy of Eurpoe, the Faroe Islands.

Saudi Arabia and China are both slightly higher or lower than New Zealand...

But that's not the question. The question is whether they deserve a spot over Australia. New Zealand is staying home whether Oceania gets a half spot or whole spot I think. I don't think so.

[Elninho]

Originally posted by Heist
I like Concacaf as much as the next guy and think Costa Rica's performance was as important as Mexico's.
Honduras could have done well in the last cup and will fight for the half spot. T&T, Jamaica, and Canada are all teams that every 4 years have a shot to do okay in the cup, but I think they'll have trouble ever staying as good as Mexico or the US, or even Costa Rica.

But Xena is right, apart from last year the US has stunk it up when its made it to the Finals. Although that's the past, the US is here to stay in world soccer. We are only going to get better until we are a perennial top 10 or 12 team. At that point we'll have reached our peak and we will go up and down much like the other top teams in the world do right now.
Xena also said Mexico is Mexico... yeah, almost always making it to the second round, but only making it farther than that once. They are a good top 10-20 team in the world. I doubt they'll ever make it much higher than that for an extended period of time or much lower. They and the US will constantly be leapfrogging each other although I think the US will be on top more often for the forseable future.

Again... CONCACAF, the overlooked confederation that has gotten a higher percentage of its World Cup qualifiers to the second round than any other except UEFA and CONMEBOL since 1986.

1986: Mexico (host) to quarterfinals, Canada out 1st round. 1 of 2 advance.

1990: Costa Rica to 2nd round, USA out 1st round. 1 of 2 advance.

1994: USA (host) and Mexico to 2nd round. 2 of 2 advance.

1998: Mexico to 2nd round, Jamaica and USA out 1st round. 1 of 3 advance.

2002: USA to quarters, Mexico to 2nd round, Costa Rica out 1st round. 2 of 3 advance.

Since 1986, CONCACAF has advanced 7 of 12 World Cup qualifiers to the 2nd round, which is more than its share. 3 of the 5 CONCACAF countries to appear in the World Cup have advanced (Mexico, USA, Costa Rica) including 2 to the quarterfinals. This is a far better record than Africa and Asia. Even those countries that failed to advance were not embarrassed in 1998 and 2002. Costa Rica went out on goal difference this year in a group where the two teams that advanced went on to play one another in the semifinals, Jamaica won a match in 1998, and the USA's 1998 performance wasn't nearly as poor as some of what we saw from Asian teams in 2002.

CONCACAF has earned its half-spot. While I agree that Asia has earned nothing, OFC has consistently failed to get anyone into the World Cup at all. Consider:

1986 - Australia lose to Scotland (last in group in WC)
1990 - Israel (who then competed in Oceania) lose to Colombia (advanced 3rd in group, lost in 2nd round to Cameroon)
1994 - Australia need penalties to beat Canada, then lose to Argentina (advanced 2nd in group, lost in 2nd round to Romania)
1998 - Australia lose to Iran (3rd in group)
2002 - Australia lose to Uruguay (3rd in group)

Hardly impressive...

[Nate505]

Originally posted by maczebus
Teams of either Australia or New Zealand's quality, shouldn't automatically have a 50% chance of competing.

It's just wrong.

If FIFA is going to go thru the chrade of making Oceiana its own conference, they should get an auotmatic spot. What they should really do is dissolve Oceiana into Asia an add the 0.5 or 1 spot to Asia. I feel bad for Australia/NZ in the sense that they can hardly play any meaningful games, due to the lack of competition they have, and pretty much play 2-4 meaningful games in WCQ.

[Jay510]

basically, the reason FIFA did this was for Australia......they bitch and moan about having their cup coming down to a home and away that FIFA was tired of listening to them and shut them up.......basically, Australia complained when it is convinent.......if somehow they lose to NZ in the home away this time, they will most certainly cry foul about OFC's qualifying structure..........until they get into the friggin cup, they wont shut up

Unless OFC merges with Asia, the only thing that will happen is home-away matches for that spot.....id be surprised if all 10 were grouped together for 20 games......i mean god forbid Australia would have to go on the road

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by xenaphobia
Unlikely

In the 2001 WC Qualifiers, Australia's "B" team rolled over them 6-1 in 2 games

Their 1-0 win against an Australian "F" side in the 2002 OFC Cup is hardly representative of the strength of NZ soccer, their U20WC side just got knocked out by Fiji!

You should learn to think before you post.

The New Zealand team in the WCQ were missing it's 3 top players, 2 of whom play in the MLS.

The Fiji win should show that how far the OFC has come in this competition.

As for the OFC gaining a spot, it would give the island countries the incentive to go full out to build up top notch sides. Look for the island nations to look outside their borders to find talent.

As for the Australian team getting away with a weak lineup? Maybe you should look at the lineup cars for Australia's WCQ matches before people should comment.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Jay510

Unless OFC merges with Asia, the only thing that will happen is home-away matches for that spot.....id be surprised if all 10 were grouped together for 20 games......i mean god forbid Australia would have to go on the road

Australia did try to merge the OFC and the AFC. The problem was the rest of the OFC and all of the AFC said no.

So scrap that idea.

[Nate505]

Originally posted by DoyleG
Australia did try to merge the OFC and the AFC. The problem was the rest of the OFC and all of the AFC said no.

So scrap that idea.

FIFA should politely tell them to not say no....

[Elninho]

If FIFA really want to give OFC more, and can't merge them into AFC, they should give the OFC two half-spots - have both of the top two OFC teams play off against other opponents. If nothing else, teams like Fiji can now gun for that second spot knowing that they can at least get a home-and-away playoff against a serious opponent, which is the next best thing for them after qualifying for the World Cup...