Offsides "trap" question [Archive]

ctsoccer13

28 Sep 2005, 08:58 AM

I have a question concerning an offsides "trap" of sorts, using High School rules. If a free kick is being taken (say 30 yards out) and a defender sets up on the far post, but before the ball is kicked the defender steps out-of-bounds, are offensive players considered offsides if they are in the offsides position? I said "no", considering sometimes a defensive player sets up beyond the goal line inside the post, but someone asked me the question and I really couldn't answer it without some doubt.

uniteo

28 Sep 2005, 09:01 AM

with the caveat that I don't know if HS rules are different...

A player may not leave the field to draw another player off, he's still considered a participant.

scarshins

28 Sep 2005, 09:08 AM

...and a player who intentionally leaves the field like that can be carded.

billf

28 Sep 2005, 09:15 AM

Its offside, singular, and no this should not be offside under any set of rules. In fact this would be a caution for either unsporting behavior (I'd select this reason) or for leaving the field without permission.

ctsoccer13

28 Sep 2005, 01:37 PM

I take it this means he has to intentionally leave the field, because I would have to imagine that a person who slid out of bounds in a tackle, and the subsequent play puts a player in offside position, that an offside call would be made? FYI, this is all just out of curiosity. Thanks.

Ref Flunkie

28 Sep 2005, 02:01 PM

Ready for the fun question of the day? What would be the restart for cautioning a player stepping off the field for offside? I'm sure I SHOULD know this, but I can't decide of the offense happend on the field or off. I know, I'm an idiot ;).

chrisrun

28 Sep 2005, 02:09 PM

Ready for the fun question of the day? What would be the restart for cautioning a player stepping off the field for offside? I'm sure I SHOULD know this, but I can't decide of the offense happend on the field or off. I know, I'm an idiot ;).
You wouldn't stop play for this offense. Assume that the defender is standing on the line in terms of his positioning. Wait for the next stoppage of play to card the player for leaving the field without permission. The restart is for whatever caused the stoppage of play.

ur_land

28 Sep 2005, 02:11 PM

I take it this means he has to intentionally leave the field, because I would have to imagine that a person who slid out of bounds in a tackle, and the subsequent play puts a player in offside position, that an offside call would be made? FYI, this is all just out of curiosity. Thanks.

No offside call would be made in that situation either.

chrisrun

28 Sep 2005, 02:12 PM

I take it this means he has to intentionally leave the field, because I would have to imagine that a person who slid out of bounds in a tackle, and the subsequent play puts a player in offside position, that an offside call would be made? FYI, this is all just out of curiosity. Thanks.
Assume that the defender is on the line. Thus he is the "last" defender. Find the second to last defender (and the ball, of course) and determine offside position from there.

ctsoccer13

28 Sep 2005, 02:21 PM

Unless I'm reading the last two posts incorrectly, isn't one saying in my last situation that the player is onside and one is saying he is offside (considering the position of the ball)?

GKbenji

28 Sep 2005, 02:59 PM

No, they're saying the same thing. No offside in the situation you described. Regardless of which rules or laws you're using, a defender cannot step off the field to put an attacker offside.

If a defender does step off, for offside purposes they are considered to be at the field boundary closest to where they are standing. So a defender who goes behind the goal line is considered to be on the goal line and keeps the attacker onside (assuming the attacker is ahead of the ball, etc.).

Ref Flunkie

28 Sep 2005, 03:00 PM

Unless I'm reading the last two posts incorrectly, isn't one saying in my last situation that the player is onside and one is saying he is offside (considering the position of the ball)?

All chrisrun is saying is that if the defender has left the field, he is counted as the last defender since he is considered to be on the end line. You then find the second to last defender for offside, whether it be the keeper or next closest field player to the end line.

pasoccerdave

28 Sep 2005, 04:09 PM

Interesting question. Let me ask the opposite question, as I recall seeing it happen at the pro level.

A forward chases the ball and ends up in the net. Rather than come out and be offside, he remains there while the play continues (a mad scramble in the box, IIRC). What do you call?

Ref Flunkie

28 Sep 2005, 04:19 PM

Interesting question. Let me ask the opposite question, as I recall seeing it happen at the pro level.

A forward chases the ball and ends up in the net. Rather than come out and be offside, he remains there while the play continues (a mad scramble in the box, IIRC). What do you call?

Nothing, assuming he stays there and doesn't distract anyone.

wwdudley

28 Sep 2005, 04:19 PM

A forward chases the ball and ends up in the net. Rather than come out and be offside, he remains there while the play continues (a mad scramble in the box, IIRC). What do you call?

I'm a new referee this season, but we discussed this situation in our course. This is like an attacker standing still or stepping off the field anywhere else to signify he is not involved with play when he realizes he is an offside position. As long as he does not interfere with play by being in the net, there is no offside and play continues.

BC_Ref

28 Sep 2005, 07:55 PM

I'm a new referee this season, but we discussed this situation in our course. This is like an attacker standing still or stepping off the field anywhere else to signify he is not involved with play when he realizes he is an offside position. As long as he does not interfere with play by being in the net, there is no offside and play continues.

A bit different since an attacker can show he is not gaining an advantage. A defender can't since he is part of the offside position equation (rather than the 2nd stage of involvement in the play).

As to the attacker in the netting, he would need to be very uninvolved and the play well away from the net for me to ignore him (the position itself is troubling from a game control aspect in the first place - I'd want him out ASAP). Attackers in the netting isn't good - they should be putting balls there instead :)

ctsoccer13

28 Sep 2005, 08:07 PM

Thanks for all the replies and explanations.

Ombak

28 Sep 2005, 08:09 PM

Its offside, singular,Can we drop that nonsense already? You say tomato, I say tomahto...

macheath

29 Sep 2005, 10:05 AM

On attackers leaving the field...

There was a great, funny goal in the EPL a few years ago when an attacker's momentum carried him over the end line. Shay Given, the Newcastle keeper, got the ball while it was still in play, and rolled it on the ground in front of him in preparation for a kick to his teammates. The attacker ran back onto the field directly behind Given, then rounded him and put the ball in the net. Goal, since the attacker's momentum carried him off the field, and he wasn't doing it to deceive. Obviously not offside, as the keeper had the ball in possession.

AlsoRan

29 Sep 2005, 04:32 PM

On attackers leaving the field...

There was a great, funny goal in the EPL a few years ago when an attacker's momentum carried him over the end line. Shay Given, the Newcastle keeper, got the ball while it was still in play, and rolled it on the ground in front of him in preparation for a kick to his teammates. The attacker ran back onto the field directly behind Given, then rounded him and put the ball in the net. Goal, since the attacker's momentum carried him off the field, and he wasn't doing it to deceive. Obviously not offside, as the keeper had the ball in possession.

http://www.sfsra.org/main/gallery_video_goalie.lasso