Patrick Vieira, Juventus, and quality of life

[billyho96]

I know, he's been sold get over it.

Does anyone think that he wouldn't have stayed had we signed him to an extension at a wage more within the club ideal structure. He was on about 100 per week. Surely Arsenal would have given him a new contract had he agreed to 35 to 50 a week.

Reason I bring this up, is that I am watching the Juventus/Vienna match on Setanta right now and there are literally 10s of thousands of empty seats. Honestly, there are more empty seats than filled seats.

Surely quality of life means something. Steven Gerrard stayed at Anfield because of the fans. He is a god at Anfield and will never have to by a drink for himself again in Liverpool (though I know he could afford it) Paddy was a god at Highbury, and like was mention in an article about Highbury selling out against Thun, Arsenal are truly are a big club. Your fans make you a big club, not your check book. The money will come and go, but the fans and the spirit of the club will never leave

You hear people talk about special European nights like those at Anfield, and those I believe will come to Highbury. I know Vieira has all the money he could ever spend, and now he plays in relative obscurity at Del Alpi, where no one cares or comes to the matches.

Why trade that quality of life, where you are a king and fans worship you to go to a ghost town like Juventus. He should have ended his career like Dennis is and like I hope Henry will, at a full packed to the rafter stadium with thousands of Arsenal fans showering him with affection. All the transfer talk every year doesn't bother me, that just means people wanted him. Arsenal's hesitance to extend contracts for aging players has to be flexible for certain people. Show them they are wanted.

Life after football will come and Paddy could have been with the club long afterwards as a steward of Gunners pride. Instead, a couple of years after his contract runs, no one at Juventus will even remember he was even there.

We will survive without Paddy, but I can't help but wonder does he miss the roar at highbury when he shows up for an empty stadium in Turin.

[phishy]

okay, this is simple...


VIEIRA DIDNT LEAVE ARSENAL...

arsenal football club sold patrick vieira to juventus.
it had nothing to do with his affiliation to the club, it had to do with getting a return on an aging player.
how did this possibly alude you during the sale of vieira to juventus????

[Catfish]

...no one at Juventus will even remember he was even there. We will survive without Paddy, but I can't help but wonder does he miss the roar at highbury when he shows up for an empty stadium in Turin.
Billy, this is why I love you! I couldn't agree more. It makes me sick seeing him don the Juve stripes and playing in front of a home crowd that is usually 1/2 full.

[phishy]

Billy, this is why I love you! I couldn't agree more. It makes me sick seeing him don the Juve stripes and playing in front of a home crowd that is usually 1/2 full.

pourquoi?


*sigh*

:rolleyes:

[jwaldman11]

Aside from not caring if Vieira is playing in Antarctica, first, I think it's necessary to remind everyone of the same thing Phishy has been reminding them of: WE MADE THE DECISION TO SELL VIEIRA BEFORE HE HAD ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT. Even Vieira admits that we had accepted the offer before going to him with it. He might make it sound like it was his call and that he left to go somewhere where he thought he could win the CL, but that's bollocks. We made the call on where he was going, and he just went along with it.

Second, certain players would obviously miss playing in front of sold-out crowds for CL matches. If we had sold Tony Adams to Juve, I'm sure he would be wishing he could be back in Highbury. But, and this will sound like sour grapes, the more I think about Vieira and his antics and some of the things he's said since he left the club, the less I think he actually cares about the supporters and the history of the club. The players that do, for the most part, don't put everyone through what he did two summers in a row or talk about "losing their fire" and needing to move on. If you care about the club and the supporters, some of whom have been going to matches since before you were born, then that fire comes from trying to win for them and for yourself. Without the supporters, there is no club, there are no trophies and there is no glory. In retrospect, his attempts to move to Real (twice) showed that, no matter what he said after, he was looking for bigger and better things, including paychecks, and didn't really care about the club or supporters. Looking back, and I defended him at the time, he should have been stripped of the captaincy based on that, as a real leader doesn't try to abandon ship.

[canzano55]

He went to Juve to win the Champions League.

[antifan]

Billy, this is why I love you! I couldn't agree more. It makes me sick seeing him don the Juve stripes and playing in front of a home crowd that is usually 1/2 full.
Uh, he wasn't even on the bench for tonights game. But i'm always happy to see another thread dedicated to Juventus and their players. :rolleyes:

[jwaldman11]

Uh, he wasn't even on the bench for tonights game. But i'm always happy to see another thread dedicated to Juventus and their players. :rolleyes:
Yeah, but, in some ways, it's better than seeing 100 threads about Arsenal being in crisis, Henry definitely being on his way out, etc.

Man, what the hell happened to this board? :rolleyes:

[antifan]

Yeah, but, in some ways, it's better than seeing 100 threads about Arsenal being in crisis, Henry definitely being on his way out, etc.

Man, what the hell happened to this board? :rolleyes:
What's that qoute from Hoosiers, when the fans start calling for Jimmy Chitwood at the pep rally?

"I thought we were here to celebrate who we are, not who we are not."

Something like that. That's how i feel,

"My team is on the floor." :cool:

[jwaldman11]

What's that qoute from Hoosiers, when the fans start calling for Jimmy Chitwood at the pep rally?

"I thought we were here to celebrate who we are, not who we are not."

Something like that. That's how i feel,

"My team is on the floor." :cool:
I know.

If I have to explain one more time how we sold Vieira instead of him leaving on his own, how we couldn't have done anymore to get Baptista and/or Robinho or how we're not any worse at scoring than most of the other teams in the league this season, I'm going to scream.

[billyho96]

Uh, he wasn't even on the bench for tonights game. But i'm always happy to see another thread dedicated to Juventus and their players. :rolleyes:

He was not on the bench because he got a red card in the last match and was suspended.

I think this is important to talk about, because if Henry ever goes his attitude is gonna be exactly the same as Vieira. Don't be fooled Paddy is very in your face saying what he's thinking kind of guy. Henry is more of a politician in the way he talks to the press but that doesn't mean he feels differently.

I can't believe how open and shut you guys are about this. This was our captain, who lead us to an unbeaten season and enough points last year to win in most years prior to the Chelsea revolution.

Some of our personal decisions have been suspect, everyone bitches about not buying a replacement or other top class players, yet selling our second best position player is no big deal? Even Henry is obviously angered at Paddy leaving. We can't replace these players in terms of their quality with our budget. I'm just saying more should be done to make them happy.

Paddy still had to agree to personal terms with Juve. for the deal to do through.

The man gave us 10 great years and two months after he's gone, there's a real to hell with him attitude. Its just wrong.

[jwaldman11]

He was not on the bench because he got a red card in the last match and was suspended.

I think this is important to talk about, because if Henry ever goes his attitude is gonna be exactly the same as Vieira. Don't be fooled Paddy is very in your face saying what he's thinking kind of guy. Henry is more of a politician in the way he talks to the press but that doesn't mean he feels differently.

I can't believe how open and shut you guys are about this. This was our captain, who lead us to an unbeaten season and enough points last year to win in most years prior to the Chelsea revolution.

Some of our personal decisions have been suspect, everyone bitches about not buying a replacement or other top class players, yet selling our second best position player is no big deal? Even Henry is obviously angered at Paddy leaving. We can't replace these players in terms of their quality with our budget. I'm just saying more should be done to make them happy.

Paddy still had to agree to personal terms with Juve. for the deal to do through.

The man gave us 10 great years and two months after he's gone, there's a real to hell with him attitude. Its just wrong.
That's because his attitude last year in games and in the press this year has been "to hell with Arsenal". Even before that, when he flirted with Real, you had to be asking yourself where his own loyalties lie. He's the captain of one of the biggest teams in Europe and he's fawning over a move to another club? That's what's wrong, Billy. Our attitude towards him is a result of his actions, not the other way around.

And don't act like he's the greatest captain Arsenal has ever had. Sure, we had one of, if not the most successful run in club history under him, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that who the captain was had any more to do with it than the manager and the other players. I would take Tony Adams as captain in a heartbeat over Vieira. Even when Adams and Wenger butted heads, Adams always showed loyalty to the club and its supporters, which is more than can be said about Vieira, who himself had admitted that he just didn't have the fire anymore. What kind of an example does he set as a captain if he's half-assing it during games?

Bottom line here is that these threads where everyone is saying "oh, I wish we still had Vieira", "we miss Paddy" and "I feel so bad for him playing in front of a half-full stadium" is what's wrong here. Everyone is so hung up on the past that no one is looking ahead to the future. Vieira was a great player for Arsenal, and I'm thankful for the nine good years he gave us (I know he played ten, but last year wasn't close to good). But he's gone and he's not coming back. The fact that he's been talking about how Arsenal aren't ambitious enough and how he didn't think he could win the CL at Highbury shows that he is not close to a true Arsenal man and that he doesn't care so much about the club or the supporters as he does himself. A good captain puts the club first, his teammates second and himself a very distant third. If you want to feel bad for him and wish he was here, fine, but no player is bigger than the club, not even the captain. As my sig has said since all the whining and bitching began, VIEIRA'S GONE. DEAL WITH IT.

[antifan]

He was not on the bench because he got a red card in the last match and was suspended. I wondered about that, i guess i'm not following Juventus as closely as i should.
I think this is important to talk about, because if Henry ever goes his attitude is gonna be exactly the same as Vieira. Don't be fooled Paddy is very in your face saying what he's thinking kind of guy. Henry is more of a politician in the way he talks to the press but that doesn't mean he feels differently. If his attitude is that he wants more money than the club can give him, that's fine. Like i said before, its all about the money. Wenger pointed out the other day that going to Barcelona doesn't give a player a better chance to win the CL.
I can't believe how open and shut you guys are about this. This was our captain, who lead us to an unbeaten season and enough points last year to win in most years prior to the Chelsea revolution. That's the crucial word in this sentence.
Some of our personal decisions have been suspect, everyone bitches about not buying a replacement or other top class players, yet selling our second best position player is no big deal? Even Henry is obviously angered at Paddy leaving. We can't replace these players in terms of their quality with our budget. I'm just saying more should be done to make them happy. What could the club have done to make Vieira happy? Break the wage structure in order to reward a fading star with no loyalty to the club? Perhaps if we signed him to a long term, big money contract we could have kept him another 4 years. Then all of a sudden Cole, Henry, and everyone else wants the same. Look at Manchester, they kept Keane, haven't won sh1t lately, and now have no idea who his replacement is going to be. At least if a replacement becomes available, we'll have the money to sign and pay him.
Paddy still had to agree to personal terms with Juve. for the deal to do through.
The man gave us 10 great years and two months after he's gone, there's a real to hell with him attitude. Its just wrong. Guess what, HE WANTED TO LEAVE! He made that clear year after year, this time Wenger got the deal done quickly because he knew that Vieira had been retired on the job for the last year. I'm sorry that Paddy (like many of the posters here) wasn't happy that the club couldn't afford all the players he felt he needed to win it all. Maybe someday he will realize that he could have made it happen himself, but instead he took the easy way out. I really hope it works out for him like it did for Micheal Owen, leaving the club due to "lack of ambition" then watching them win it all from his seat on the couch.

[rgrayson]

attendence in italy hasnt been great for a while. Im sure he knew that.

[Detlef]

Bottom line here is that these threads where everyone is saying "oh, I wish we still had Vieira", "we miss Paddy" and "I feel so bad for him playing in front of a half-full stadium" is what's wrong here. Everyone is so hung up on the past that no one is looking ahead to the future. Vieira was a great player for Arsenal, and I'm thankful for the nine good years he gave us (I know he played ten, but last year wasn't close to good). But he's gone and he's not coming back. The fact that he's been talking about how Arsenal aren't ambitious enough and how he didn't think he could win the CL at Highbury shows that he is not close to a true Arsenal man and that he doesn't care so much about the club or the supporters as he does himself. A good captain puts the club first, his teammates second and himself a very distant third. If you want to feel bad for him and wish he was here, fine, but no player is bigger than the club, not even the captain. As my sig has said since all the whining and bitching began, VIEIRA'S GONE. DEAL WITH IT.

Word. He ain't here, IMHO he didn't want to be at Arsenal (witness last summer's antics with Real Madrid), so that's that. I appreciate Vieira's years of service to the club, but it's time to move forward.

[fox point fury]

I really hope it works out for him like it did for Micheal Owen, leaving the club due to "lack of ambition" then watching them win it all from his seat on the couch.

You forgot to add "Only to be sold to a decaying lump next year once Juve brings in a few youngsters who can do the job better than him."

[Rima067]

attendence in italy hasnt been great for a while. Im sure he knew that.


And specifically the Delle Alpi. I thought it was very common knowedge that they barely ever have a full house.

There are a lot of reasons for it.

One of them is the racing track and the incredible distance from front row to the field. But that is going to be renovated and the track taken out all together I believe. The renovation was in the works but it's been delayed again.

Incredibly and even astoundingly, it's not even a big deal for the club -because they make so much in merch/etc.

[canzano55]

attendence in italy hasnt been great for a while. Im sure he knew that.Napoli averaged 50 thousand fans last year and they're still in C1.