Who's the best coach/manager?

[Pedro's greasy do]

No. Not if you have unlimited funds to buy players.

To me your argument is flawed. There is only one thing that matter in football and that’s winning. Who cares how much money you spend.

[Duck Manson]

Alright. I don't know what the average salary for Chelsea and Man United is. I'd bet it's atleast 25% more at Chelsea. Let's say €3.5m at Man United and €4.5m at Chelsea. Before Mourinho I'd bet Chelsea had half the salary budget United did.

[Duck Manson]

Alright. I don't know what the average salary for Chelsea and Man United is. I'd bet it's atleast 25% more at Chelsea. Let's say €3.5m at Man United and €4.5m at Chelsea. Before Mourinho I'd bet Chelsea had half the salary budget United did.

This were the numbers for 2006
Chelsea £114,002,000
Manchester United £85,389,000

[Andy Bennett]

Alright. I don't know what the average salary for Chelsea and Man United is. I'd bet it's atleast 25% more at Chelsea. Let's say €3.5m at Man United and €4.5m at Chelsea. Before Mourinho I'd bet Chelsea had half the salary budget United did.

This were the numbers for 2006
Chelsea £114,002,000
Manchester United £85,389,000
I thought you said you didn't know!

Anyway, where do those figures come from?

[Duck Manson]

I thought you said you didn't know!

Anyway, where do those figures come from?Those were totals. Can't be bothered to figure out the averages since that would mean actual research. I did a search and the first page were from 2006.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

The 17th edition of the Deloitte Annual Review of Football Finance was launched on 29th May 2008. This definitive guide to European football finance provides not only a track record up to the end of the 2006/07 season, but also includes some pointers as to how the industry has developed in 2007/08 and is likely to change in the future.
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,sid%253D70402%2526cid%253D56148,00.html


While I could use my student discount to buy a copy for £60 as opposed to £600 I think I will stick with the snippets that can be found in the media.

Chelsea have recorded the highest wage bill in the Premier League, hiking their player salaries by 17 per cent between 2005/06 and 2006/07. The club also have the biggest debt. At the end of the 2006/07 season Chelsea had a net borrowing of £620 million, with a personal loan of £90 million from Roman Abramovich in that season alone, which brought his total investment in the club to £575 million and offset the club's losses after tax of £76 million. Chelsea were ranked ninth in their stadium utilisation (bums on seats) this season, although it had improved from the previous season. Chelsea did bring in the second highest television payments - £30m for the 2006/07 season

Club-by-club Premier League analysis:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2301797/Deloitte-football-finance-review-Club-by-club-Premier-League-analysis.html

Premier League Wages - 06/07:

Team - Wage bill - % increase
Chelsea - £132.8m - 17%
Man Utd - £92.3m - 8%
Arsenal - £89.7m - 8%
Liverpool - £77.6m - 13%
Newcastle United - £62.5m - 20%

Premier League average - £48.5m - 13%
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7424134.stm

Enjoy.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

If you want some nice graphics:
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Football/documents/2008/05/29/deloitte.pdf

Now obviously things will have changed since then but we would need to wait until the next report to get the full details.

[zakinator]

Sir Alex Ferguson...the best

[bsas]

For me it's Hiddink. The guy has made wonders at each and every team he has coached, and not necessarily with a big budget.

SAF is of course an extraordinary coach, but he has mainly coached Utd, tailoring it exactly the way he wanted over the years. Hiddink has been able to show fast results with teams as different as PSV, South Korea, Russia and now Chelsea...

[Tony Dellbird]

Don't jump the gun with Chelsea he's been there two games. It's beginners luck.

[Andy Bennett]

Don't jump the gun with Chelsea he's been there two games. It's beginners luck.
Well, that and the fact that every team usually manages a 'bounce' when they get a new manager because the players think they're starting with a clean slate and they all want to impress the new fella.

I think he's a good manager but whether he's got what it takes for the prem is yet to be determined.

[bsas]

Well, that and the fact that every team usually manages a 'bounce' when they get a new manager because the players think they're starting with a clean slate and they all want to impress the new fella.

I think he's a good manager but whether he's got what it takes for the prem is yet to be determined.

I didn't read too much in the recent Chelsea victories (though it's noticeable after so many defeats with previous coach), but fact is Hiddink has been extremely successful with the large variety of teams he has coached. I mean, a guy who can lead South Korea to WC semifinals (well, along with some referees, agreed;)) is right there on top.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

For me it's Hiddink. The guy has made wonders at each and every team he has coached, and not necessarily with a big budget.

SAF is of course an extraordinary coach, but he has mainly coached Utd, tailoring it exactly the way he wanted over the years. Hiddink has been able to show fast results with teams as different as PSV, South Korea, Russia and now Chelsea...

PSV - one of the biggest teams in Holland
South Korea - far more preparation prior to the event, home field advantage and corrupt officials
Russia - underachieving team in general that did well in one Euro 2008 game
Chelsea - one of the biggest teams in England, two games in

[Andy Bennett]

PSV - one of the biggest teams in Holland

... and they were one of the biggest teams in Holland before and after him, as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guus_Hiddink#PSV_Eindhoven

During his second spell with PSV, Hiddink won three Dutch league titles (2002-03, 2004-05, and 2005-06), the 2005 Dutch Cup, and the 2003 Dutch Super Cup. In Europe, the 2004-05 Champions League led to PSV's first ever appearance in the semi-final of the tournament since it adopted its current format in 1992–93 (PSV won the European Cup, the predecessor to the modern Champions League, in 1988, with Hiddink as coach). PSV narrowly lost the semi-final to AC Milan, on away goals. In the 2005-06 Champions League season, PSV made it through the group stage, but was eliminated in the first knockout round, having lost 5 of its starting 11 members (Park Ji-Sung to Manchester United, Lee Young-Pyo to Tottenham Hotspur, Mark van Bommel to Barcelona, Johann Vogel to AC Milan, and Wilfred Bouma to Aston Villa) to transfers. This period at PSV would make Hiddink the most successful Dutch coach in history,[17] with six Dutch League titles and four Dutch Cups, surpassing the record of Rinus Michels.


South Korea - far more preparation prior to the event, home field advantage and corrupt officials

Corrupt officials? Why? Because they noticed Totti doing this?

YouTube - Francesco Totti's Diving in the World Cup 2002

He was determined to go down well before the guy got anywhere near him. That was one of the most beautiful moments in world football history. Made all the sweeter by the hysterical reaction of the Italians who showed real class and composure... NOT :D


Russia - underachieving team in general that did well in one Euro 2008 game

Yes, well, that would be what's meant by a good manager, wouldn't it... someone who can get an underachieving side playing to their potential or beyond.

Regardless of how well he does with us the guy's a good manager.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Corrupt officials? Why?

Regardless of how well he does with us the guy's a good manager.

I think you need to revisit that World Cup. As for Hiddink I never once stated that he was not a good manager. All I did was dispute the ridiculous claim that he was the best.

[HeartandSoul]

Have there been other head coaches that have simultaneously managed a major European club and a national team?

[Duck Manson]

Corrupt officials? Why?Apparently that World Cup was before you developed eyesight.

[spoonman]

Have there been other head coaches that have simultaneously managed a major European club and a national team?

Yeah, Hiddink did it with PSV and Australia

[Andy Bennett]

Apparently that World Cup was before you developed eyesight.
Uh huh!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/worldcup2002/low/matches_wallchart/mexico_v_italy/newsid_2018000/2018794.stm

41 mins: Mexico have another golden opportunity as Gerardo Torrado dummies the Italian defence and then puts Jared Borgetti through with a great pass - but a fantastic block by Fabio Cannavaro prevents Borgetti scoring. Italy counter-attack through Francesco Totti, who goes down in the Mexican half and is booked for diving.

9 mins: Christian Panucci makes inroads into Mexico's box - he falls to the floor looking for a penalty but the referee books him for diving.

The ref for that one was from Brazil so not only dirty cheating Asians but dirty cheating central and south Americans as well :D

There were one or two bad decisions in that WC, (the one where the ball went over the dead ball line and yet they scored a goal was one), but Italy didn't suffer than any other team. What about the turks having a man sent off against Brazil for Rivaldo's dive.

YouTube - Idiot 3 - Rivaldo

More to the point from my point of view what about this...

YouTube - Maradona hand of god

The only difference is the level of hysterical nonsense the rest of us had to put up with afterwards.

[Duck Manson]

Uh huh!
The only difference is the level of hysterical nonsense the rest of us had to put up with afterwards.Like I said earlier, this World Cup was apparently before you achieved sight. Watch the Italy Korea game again.