Who's the best coach/manager?

[BocaFan]

Prove it.

In the 90s and early 2000s, there were as many as 6 or 7 real contenders for the Italian championship. And based on these teams' performances in Europe at the time, its fair to say these were all high-quality teams.

England was a two team league.

You also have to consider that there are a lot fewer chances at silverware when you're a national team manager. For instance, in the last 4 years Lippi has won everything imaginable - a grand total of 1 trophy.

SAF has longevity on his side but when you put Lippi with a good team (ie. 1994-2006), there's nobody who is more successful.

[johan neeskens]

Here are the IFFHS' top 10 coaches of the last 12 years:



Who are these people? And let me guess, they judge on results only?

[BocaFan]

Who are these people?


The same people that ranked the Argentine league as the #2 league in the world a few weeks ago.


And let me guess, they judge on results only?

Not that judging on results is a bad thing IMO. But there's certainly a wrong way to interpret raw data and it appears that IFFHS has failed again.

For instance, one of the first things I would look at is how much a team improves when the manager takes over the helm. And secondly, how much the team falls apart after that manager leaves. If you did this analysis, you'd probably have a top 10 list that includes a lot more people that managed second-tier/mid-table clubs that overachieved while the manager in question was in charge. While someone like Rijkaard would be nowhere near the top 10.

[Andy Bennett]

SAF has longevity on his side...
I've never been entirely clear why Ferguson's longevity should be counted towards his standing as a coach. I mean, if he'd been manager of a big club for 20+ years and HADN'T won something he'd have to be quite a numpty, wouldn't he.

I suppose it says the people that run the club are happy with him because he's winning trophies but that's never stopped managers in Italy and Spain getting the heave-ho. If he'd got the push after the Wednesday game we'd probably not be having this conversation.

The question mark against Ferguson for me will always be the fact that he's only won the CL twice. One of those was, frankly, a bit lucky and the other was on penalties. Bearing in mind they've qualified for the past 18 or so years that's not exactly stellar, is it.

[johan neeskens]

The same people that ranked the Argentine league as the #2 league in the world a few weeks ago.



Not that judging on results is a bad thing IMO. But there's certainly a wrong way to interpret raw data and it appears that IFFHS has failed again.

For instance, one of the first things I would look at is how much a team improves when the manager takes over the helm. And secondly, how much the team falls apart after that manager leaves. If you did this analysis, you'd probably have a top 10 list that includes a lot more people that managed second-tier/mid-table clubs that overachieved while the manager in question was in charge. While someone like Rijkaard would be nowhere near the top 10.

Rijkaard shouldn't be anywhere near the top 10! Van Gaal is miles ahead of him. But Hiddink's the only Dutch manager that should be in it. And Michels if we're going to look at the past.

[phat]

Everybody knows that Serie A was better then the EPL in the 90's, theres nothing to debate. Hell, IMO Serie A is still better.

[Tony Dellbird]

Everybody knows that Serie A was better then the EPL in the 90's, theres nothing to debate. Hell, IMO Serie A is still better.

Then you are a very deluded gentleman I'm afraid, in the early 90s yes Serie A was better but now Serie A is nowhere near La Liga or the FAPL.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I've never been entirely clear why Ferguson's longevity should be counted towards his standing as a coach. I mean, if he'd been manager of a big club for 20+ years and HADN'T won something he'd have to be quite a numpty, wouldn't he.

The question mark against Ferguson for me will always be the fact that he's only won the CL twice. One of those was, frankly, a bit lucky and the other was on penalties. Bearing in mind they've qualified for the past 18 or so years that's not exactly stellar, is it.

He took Man Utd to the top and kept them there. Of course it should be counted when discussing his standing as a manager. Very few managers have been able to stay at the top for so long let alone at the same club and with such a consistent level of success. To be able to create and preside over so many different 'teams' deserves great credit.

Who else has won more CL titles than he has? Even if you extended it to the European Cup as well only one manager in the history of the game has won it more times. When you consider the change in format to the CL and the result that had on success in direct comparison to the EC then I don't think anyone can complain about his record in Europe. Man Utd are the most consistent team in the CL and that is all you can ask for.

[BocaFan]

Man Utd are the most consistent team in the CL and that is all you can ask for.

They finished last in the group-stage in 2006 and won the whole thing in 2008. Veeeeerrrrry consistent. :rolleyes:

[Andy Bennett]

He took Man Utd to the top and kept them there. Of course it should be counted when discussing his standing as a manager. Very few managers have been able to stay at the top for so long let alone at the same club and with such a consistent level of success. To be able to create and preside over so many different 'teams' deserves great credit.

I never suggested otherwise.

Who else has won more CL titles than he has?

Well, if we're going to design the criteria in terms such that he comes out of well then you may have a point. I think most sensible people will look at the record of some of the others and recognise they're pretty close, certainly close enough for there not to be a clear winner.

Even if you extended it to the European Cup as well only one manager in the history of the game has won it more times.

But as I explained, that's partly as a result of him being there longer than anyone else. If he'd been sacked after the Wednesday game, (as he could easily have been and WOULD have been if he'd been in Italy or Spain), we wouldn't even be discussing it.

When you consider the change in format to the CL and the result that had on success in direct comparison to the EC then I don't think anyone can complain about his record in Europe. Man Utd are the most consistent team in the CL and that is all you can ask for.
Unless, as I do, you think he should have done better in the CL bearing in mind he's had the opportunity to win it for the past 17-18 years, in which case his record is not clearly better than some of the others as you appear to be suggesting.

As I say, I don't think there is a clear winner.

[dor02]

Then you are a very deluded gentleman I'm afraid, in the early 90s yes Serie A was better but now Serie A is nowhere near La Liga or the FAPL.Try the whole decade. ;)

Saying that the Serie A is nowhere near the EPL and La Liga is an overstatement. It's not in the greatest shape but it's still improving after the events of calciopoli. The second round of this year's CL should test the Italians to see if they have improved after their dismal results against English clubs last year.

[Duck Manson]

Explain the youth players he brought through at St Mirren then? Explain his success at Aberdeen as well. I'n no fan of Man U but you just seem to be a bit of an idiot.What he did at Aberdeen is irrelevant. He's shown with Man United that he's a average manager.

[Pedro's greasy do]

What he did at Aberdeen is irrelevant. He's shown with Man United that he's a average manager.

How is it irrelevant?

[Duck Manson]

How is it irrelevant?Same as why Raducioius six goals in 1994 World Cup is irrelevant when we talk about the great strikers in history. He showed after that for a long time that he's a completely average player.

[Pedro's greasy do]

Same as why Raducioius six goals in 1994 World Cup is irrelevant when we talk about the great strikers in history. He showed after that for a long time that he's a completely average player.

So winning trophies with a team is irrelevant? Is that not the point of football? You've completely lost me now...

[Duck Manson]

So winning trophies with a team is irrelevant? Is that not the point of football? You've completely lost me now...Not if you go on and do nothing that's worth talking about. Like Mourinho, he has to win with another team to be considered great. Right now it looks like that Porto shit was a fluke because he completely dropped the ball at Chelsea and Inter are playing like crap.

[Pedro's greasy do]

Not if you go on and do nothing that's worth talking about. Like Mourinho, he has to win with another team to be considered great. Right now it looks like that Porto shit was a fluke because he completely dropped the ball at Chelsea and Inter are playing like crap.

He won Chelsea's first league title in 50 years or something like that!! How long has he been at Inter? Half a season? Does he not deserve a bit more time to sort it out?

I have to say. I think you have been talking utter sh1te on this thread. Complete and utter bollocks.

[Duck Manson]

He won Chelsea's first league title in 50 years or something like that!! How long has he been at Inter? Half a season? Does he not deserve a bit more time to sort it out?

I have to say. I think you have been talking utter sh1te on this thread. Complete and utter bollocks.Anyone could have won a league title with the kind of money they spent to improve that team. You don't take that into consideration? What players a team has is irrelevant? They had the best goalie in the league by far. They had the best defense in the league by far. They had the best midfield in the league by far. And they had Drogba up front. You'd have to be a pretty pathetic coach to avoid winning with that team.

[Pedro's greasy do]

Anyone could have won a league title with the kind of money they spent to improve that team. You don't take that into consideration? What players a team has is irrelevant? They had the best goalie in the league by far. They had the best defense in the league by far. They had the best midfield in the league by far. And they had Drogba up front. You'd have to be a pretty pathetic coach to avoid winning with that team.

Not anyone did though. Do you really think it's some sort of luck that gets these guys into the top jobs?

[Duck Manson]

Not anyone did though. Do you really think it's some sort of luck that gets these guys into the top jobs?What he did with Porto got him that job. He got fired at Chelsea because he failed. If he doesn't do something he will get his ass fired at Inter as well.