Who's the best coach/manager?

[johan neeskens]

Another one who has never heard of breaking the Celtic-Rangers hegemony and winning in Europe with Aberdeen.

With all due respect Aberdeen is not a big club.

[Tony Dellbird]

With all due respect Aberdeen is not a big club.

Exactly.

[johan neeskens]

It is considering the state United were in during the Atkinson years and what they were when Fergie picked them up.

But it took Ferguson a while to sort them out, that's my point. Few managers get that much time with a team and that much say in how a team is shaped. That's why it's difficult to assess how great a manager he really is. I would favour a manager who's proven himself in different leagues and for both club and country to someone like Ferguson any day in these polls.

[Tony Dellbird]

But it took Ferguson a while to sort them out, that's my point. Few managers get that much time with a team and that much say in how a team is shaped. That's why it's difficult to assess how great a manager he really is. I would favour a manager who's proven himself in different leagues and for both club and country to someone like Ferguson any day in these polls.

What like Guus Hiddink?

[johan neeskens]

What like Guus Hiddink?

Among others.

[Tony Dellbird]

Among others.

So who do you believe is the best manager? I don't think you've stated have you?

[johan neeskens]

So who do you believe is the best manager? I don't think you've stated have you?

I've stated Hiddink but that was partly out of nationalist considerations. I'd be happy to accept another winner but not Ferguson.

If this was 'most influential manager' though, Hiddink should easily win it.

[Andy Bennett]

But it took Ferguson a while to sort them out, that's my point. Few managers get that much time with a team and that much say in how a team is shaped. That's why it's difficult to assess how great a manager he really is. I would favour a manager who's proven himself in different leagues and for both club and country to someone like Ferguson any day in these polls.
Well it's certainly true to say that Ferguson would NEVER be given the amount of time he was given at yanited if he were starting now and it's also true to say that he gained enormously over the years from the fact that he managed a club with 'history', (read: able to unsettle players from other clubs by suggestions being made that he might be interested in signing them), and nothing is ever done about it. It's also true to say that yanited have a huge ground and worldwide support that brings in the money to allow him to 'buy' titles, (that's the statement always made about Chelsea, Blackburn and will probably be made about citeh in the not too distant future), and that he gained from having a few lads coming through from the academy at the same time that meant he didn't have to spend money.

The point is, though, you could say most of those about many other big clubs.

The other point is that all this really demonstrates is how difficult it is to compare managers at different clubs at different times with different players.

For that reason, personally, I think it's better to look at someone who manages minor clubs and makes them successful. That's why I'd choose 'old big 'ead, Brian Clough, who won the old 1st with Derby, (a 2nd tier club if ever there was one), then did the same thing with Notts Forest, (another 2nd tier club), and then took them on to win the same number of European cups as Ferguson has although he's taken 22 years to achieve it, (and was pretty bloody lucky with the first one of those, tbh).

The teams that Clough managed were 2nd rate before he was there and were 2nd rate afterwards. That's got to tell you something.

These fellas who won this and that with Milan, Madrid, Brazil, Italy or whatever... so what!!! They're decent managers but there's really no way to tell them apart.

[Pedro's greasy do]

Not very difficult to 'assemble' championship calibre teams when you have money and a great youth acadamy. Any coach with half a brain could have done what Ferguson has done.

Explain the youth players he brought through at St Mirren then? Explain his success at Aberdeen as well. I'n no fan of Man U but you just seem to be a bit of an idiot.

[Tony Dellbird]

Explain the youth players he brought through at St Mirren then? Explain his success at Aberdeen as well. I'n no fan of Man U but you just seem to be a bit of an idiot.

If there is one undeniable truth in this thread...THAT is it.

[Andy Bennett]

If there is one undeniable truth in this thread...THAT is it.
Well, quite :D

[johan neeskens]

Well it's certainly true to say that Ferguson would NEVER be given the amount of time he was given at yanited if he were starting now and it's also true to say that he gained enormously over the years from the fact that he managed a club with 'history', (read: able to unsettle players from other clubs by suggestions being made that he might be interested in signing them), and nothing is ever done about it. It's also true to say that yanited have a huge ground and worldwide support that brings in the money to allow him to 'buy' titles, (that's the statement always made about Chelsea, Blackburn and will probably be made about citeh in the not too distant future), and that he gained from having a few lads coming through from the academy at the same time that meant he didn't have to spend money.

The point is, though, you could say most of those about many other big clubs.

The other point is that all this really demonstrates is how difficult it is to compare managers at different clubs at different times with different players.

For that reason, personally, I think it's better to look at someone who manages minor clubs and makes them successful. That's why I'd choose 'old big 'ead, Brian Clough, who won the old 1st with Derby, (a 2nd tier club if ever there was one), then did the same thing with Notts Forest, (another 2nd tier club), and then took them on to win the same number of European cups as Ferguson has although he's taken 22 years to achieve it, (and was pretty bloody lucky with the first one of those, tbh).

The teams that Clough managed were 2nd rate before he was there and were 2nd rate afterwards. That's got to tell you something.

These fellas who won this and that with Milan, Madrid, Brazil, Italy or whatever... so what!!! They're decent managers but there's really no way to tell them apart.

I agree with most of that. Its why I mentioned Greece winning the Euros - much as we all despise how they did it, that was some managerial achievement.

The job of managing a big club is completely different than that of managing a small club to start off with. Big club managers don't have to focus on developing players as much as they don't need to sell them on at a profit. While for smaller clubs this is the only means to long-term survival. You don't need to tell Messi or C. Ronaldo how to play football or improve their skills, you do need to keep them happy and content. A big club manager has to be more of a people's manager, a small club manager has to be more of a hands-on coach.

[Pedro's greasy do]

I agree with most of that. Its why I mentioned Greece winning the Euros - much as we all despise how they did it, that was some managerial achievement.

The job of managing a big club is completely different than that of managing a small club to start off with. Big club managers don't have to focus on developing players as much as they don't need to sell them on at a profit. While for smaller clubs this is the only means to long-term survival. You don't need to tell Messi or C. Ronaldo how to play football or improve their skills, you do need to keep them happy and content. A big club manager has to be more of a people's manager, a small club manager has to be more of a hands-on coach.

What about Fergie at Aberdeen then? Look I'm not his biggest fan and during the 90's I really hated Man U and him. But the facts speak for themselves. The amount of trophies he’s won is something else. His teams always try to play good football. I understand people not liking him. He’s a winner and they are never universally popular. I just find it hard to understand that people would not consider him right up there at the top even if they do not like him. Some of the arguments on here for him not being one of the best are frankly some of the most stupid sh1te I’ve read!

Now go on. Ask me a question about those unwashed, giro collecting, cretinous, blinkered, contradicting scum from the east end of Glasgow and I’ll try and give you a balanced answer! :D

[johan neeskens]

What about Fergie at Aberdeen then? Look I'm not his biggest fan and during the 90's I really hated Man U and him. But the facts speak for themselves. The amount of trophies he’s won is something else. His teams always try to play good football. I understand people not liking him. He’s a winner and they are never universally popular. I just find it hard to understand that people would not consider him right up there at the top even if they do not like him. Some of the arguments on here for him not being one of the best are frankly some of the most stupid sh1te I’ve read!

Now go on. Ask me a question about those unwashed, giro collecting, cretinous, blinkered, contradicting scum from the east end of Glasgow and I’ll try and give you a balanced answer! :D

I quite agree that he did a great job with both Aberdeen and ManU. I just think that other managers who've achieved success in different football cultures and on both the club and international level deserve the best label more than him is all.

Every thread on this forum is full of stupid shite, you should know that by now!

[schafer]

And you think it's Ferguson that discovered these players? Ever heard of scouts?

I never said he discovered them though, did I? I said he made very astute purchases as in the cases of Vidic and Evra, so your point about scouts or whatever isn't even arguing against my original point. Obviously scouts first discovered them but it was ultimately Ferguson's decision to buy them, as there is no director of football at United other than Ferguson.

And local talent you talk about? How many in todays starting lineup were born in Manchester?

How convenient that you ask this when Brown is injured, Scholes is rested and Welbeck is on the bench.

[BocaFan]

Pretty close?

Look at his Honours:
(I will not bother to include runners up...)


...

Credit, as always, to wiki.

:confused: Yes, that is "pretty close" . Especially if you just look at major trophies: Champions League, domestic championships and World Cups.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

If you think that is pretty close then your arithmetic needs some serious work.

[BocaFan]

If you think that is pretty close then your arithmetic needs some serious work.

As I said earlier, you have to weigh the trophies appropriately. Serie "A" was tougher to win than the Premiership in the Lippi-era (pre 2004).

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Prove it.

[phat]

Here are the IFFHS' top 10 coaches of the last 12 years:

01 Ferguson

02 Lippi

03 Wenger

04 Hiddink

05 Eriksson

06 Mourinho

07 Hitzfeld

08 Scolari

09 Rijkaard and Bielsa

http://www.goal.com/en/news/755/europe/2009/01/20/1070154/manchester-uniteds-ferguson-named-best-coach-of-the-last-12-year