Best Goalkeeper?

[bobodaclown]

You saying it doesn't make it the truth. Julio Cesar has had more than twice the number of saves per goal taken of Buffon and Frey this past season. I do think Buffon is the better keeper in the end, but there's no way someone that watches the Seria A regularly can say Julio Cesar is not a top 5 goalkeeper in the world, or that he has been worse than Frey, or even Buffon.

agree, i have alot of respect for Julio Cesar as a GK. I would say he is 2nd only to Buffon right now in Serie A. And thats a little due to Buffons reputation

[Teso Dos Bichos]

You saying it doesn't make it the truth. Julio Cesar has had more than twice the number of saves per goal taken of Buffon and Frey this past season. I do think Buffon is the better keeper in the end, but there's no way someone that watches the Seria A regularly can say Julio Cesar is not a top 5 goalkeeper in the world, or that he has been worse than Frey, or even Buffon.

Who cares? Unless you can provide a detailed breakdown of your stats they are worthless. Not only that but you have provided no source. Are you talking about game changing saves or routine saves from distance? There is a big difference. I could go on but it would be pointless because rating keepers by total saves is simplistic and does not take account important factors such as the nature of the saves or their respective defenses. You are also wrong in your claim about those who watch Serie A regularly because had you bothered to ask (or even look) you would find many who rate Frey above Buffon based on his performances over the last season. To state that Frey is more important to Fiorentina than Buffon to Juventus or Julio Cesar to Inter would be correct.

[bobodaclown]

Who cares? Unless you can provide a detailed breakdown of your stats they are worthless. Not only that but you have provided no source. Are you talking about game changing saves or routine saves from distance? There is a big difference. I could go on but it would be pointless because rating keepers by total saves is simplistic and does not take account important factors such as the nature of the saves or their respective defenses. You are also wrong in your claim about those who watch Serie A regularly because had you bothered to ask (or even look) you would find many who rate Frey above Buffon based on his performances over the last season. To state that Frey is more important to Fiorentina than Buffon to Juventus or Julio Cesar to Inter would be correct.

since we're calling people out.. I guess you haven't watched any Juve games since Buffon has been injured. Buffon is as an important keeper to Juventus as any keeper to any club in the world.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Not more important than Frey to Fiorentina.

[bobodaclown]

darn it, can't edit.. anyway.. Serie A is home to a handful of great keepers being currently led by Buffon in my, and many others opinions, which is why he keeps on winning that stat keeper of the year and is continualy shortlisted as player of the year award. As for the rest, the rest being Doni, Julio Cesar and Frey I would accept any arguements to say that they have closed the gap immensly to Buffon but not too sure about agreeing with anyone who is going to say that either of those 3 are way better than the other 2.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

The key is whether you are looking at who is the best in general or who is the currently the form keeper. I've said previously that my order of Serie A keepers (and that of many others) is Buffon, Frey, Cesar but that is in general. If you take form into consideration then Frey comes out on top and a fair proportion of the various Serie A Team of the Seasons agree with that assessment. He worked wonders for Fiorentina and was crucial to their success. All of this despite playing with 'inferior' players ahead of him. Doni should not be mentioned because he is woeful and a major weakness for Roma. His positioning, for one, is absolutely shocking and has cost them goals countless times.

[bobodaclown]

The key is whether you are looking at who is the best in general or who is the currently the form keeper. I've said previously that my order of Serie A keepers (and that of many others) is Buffon, Frey, Cesar but that is in general. If you take form into consideration then Frey comes out on top and a fair proportion of the various Serie A Team of the Seasons agree with that assessment. He worked wonders for Fiorentina and was crucial to their success. All of this despite playing with 'inferior' players ahead of him. Doni should not be mentioned because he is woeful and a major weakness for Roma. His positioning, for one, is absolutely shocking and has cost them goals countless times.

gawd mate,

you dont think i can take this sentence

"Frey worked wonders for Fiorentina and was crucial to their success. All of this despite playing with 'inferior' players ahead of him."

and say

"Buffon worked wonders for Juventus and was crucial to their success. All of this despite playing with 'inferior' players ahead of him."

[Teso Dos Bichos]

If you did you would be stupid and highlight your lack of Serie A knowledge. No offence.

[bobodaclown]

If you did you would be stupid and highlight your lack of Serie A knowledge. No offence.

"My crotch -- Oh my God, he punched me in my crotch!"

tell me your kidding.. Buffon was not crucial to Juve's success...

ok, I have no idea, and you have absolutely no idea... No offense

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Not as much as Frey to Fiorentina.

[Kyles9]

Bobo, Frey has been a bigger figure in Fiorentina's success then Buffon to Juventus' success. Juventus' defence is way better than that of Fiorentina.

[bobodaclown]

Not as much as Frey to Fiorentina.

so you agree that Buffon worked wonders for Juventus and was crucial to their success.:rolleyes:
But I realllly hope your not implying that Juve's defensive 4 last year were that much better than Fiorentina's? which is the only thing I could think of with you making that statement.

all bullshit aside, it seems like that we both agree Buffon is the better goalkeeper... i think. And your just saying that Frey was more important to Fiorentina then Buffon was to Juventus... I'm not going to agree with that... I'm gonna say it again "Buffon is as an important keeper to Juventus as any keeper to any club in the world." and that includes Frey to Fiorentina and Cassilas to Real Madrid and I think Julio Cesar is not as important to Inter Milan but that fact doesn't automatically make him a bad keeper.

[bobodaclown]

Bobo, Frey has been a bigger figure in Fiorentina's success then Buffon to Juventus' success. Juventus' defence is way better than that of Fiorentina.

I will go as far as saying that without Buffons multiple 'world class' saves last year that Juve would not have qualified for CL this year.

I will say without Frey Fiorentina would not have qualified for CL this year.

And you gotta be kidding when you say Juves defence last year was WAY better then Fiorentinas, that's just outright wrong imo.

[Kyles9]

I will go as far as saying that without Buffons multiple 'world class' saves last year that Juve would not have qualified for CL this year.

I will say without Frey Fiorentina would not have qualified for CL this year.

And you gotta be kidding when you say Juves defence last year was WAY better then Fiorentinas, that's just outright wrong imo.

I don't know remember all the transfers for either team from last season til now and I'm too lazy to look them up so I'll use both team's current defenders.

Fiorentina - Kroldrup, Dainelli, Gamberini, Vargas, Zauri, Mazuch, Comotto, Pasqual, and Manuel da Costa.

Juventus - Chiellini, Mellberg, Zebina, Jorge Andrade, Knezevic, Grygera, Molinaro, Paolo De Ceglie, and Legrottaglie.

Which D would you rather have Bobo? Looks like a simple answer to me...

[Kulspruta]

Who cares? Unless you can provide a detailed breakdown of your stats they are worthless. Not only that but you have provided no source. Are you talking about game changing saves or routine saves from distance?
If you really did watch Serie A you wouldn't even get into that argument. Julio Cesar had by far the higher number of difficult saves last season. Some situations he got his team out of were out of this world. I don't have any stat to back this up, I just watch the games every week, while you don't. I'm not gonna spend hours searching for numbers in the internet to prove something that anyone who cares to watch before commenting on forums would know.

[Kulspruta]

Ah, and what's really worthless is you throwing opinions around as if they were facts. The stats I mentioned were listed by other posters earlier in this thread. So paraphrasing someone we know: "like it was stated previously..."

[bobodaclown]

I don't know remember all the transfers for either team from last season til now and I'm too lazy to look them up so I'll use both team's current defenders.

Fiorentina - Kroldrup, Dainelli, Gamberini, Vargas, Zauri, Mazuch, Comotto, Pasqual, and Manuel da Costa.

Juventus - Chiellini, Mellberg, Zebina, Jorge Andrade, Knezevic, Grygera, Molinaro, Paolo De Ceglie, and Legrottaglie.

Which D would you rather have Bobo? Looks like a simple answer to me...

mate, we're talking about last season since Buffon hasnt played much this season.. so take out Mellberg, take out Jorge Andrade (which you must obviously no the reason why), take out little kid De Ceglie, PLEASE take out Molinaro and Zebina and who you got? Chiellini who last year WAS turniing into a top class defender and Negro who aint world class but had a solid season and who you got left? Buffon, and Juve were tied with lowest # of allowed goals last season and I WILL SAY Buffon had a huge hand in that record.. HUGE.

To answer your question directly, which D would I have... neither... which is my point.

[Kyles9]

I don't really watch Serie A but Julio Cesar must be pretty damn good if an AC Milan fan is praising him highly like that.

Bobo, I told you I wasn't going to go look up last year's squads, I know some of those are newly acquired or didn't play much last season. I was just saying that Frey played as good as Buffon did with IMO a worse group of players infront of him.

[bobodaclown]

I don't really watch Serie A but Julio Cesar must be pretty damn good if an AC Milan fan is praising him highly like that.

Bobo, I told you I wasn't going to go look up last year's squads, I know some of those are newly acquired or didn't play much last season. I was just saying that Frey played as good as Buffon did with IMO a worse group of players infront of him.

dude, at least your honest and I will give you that.

but if you don't watch serie a much then when would you have seen Juve's defence in action? they weren't in Europe only in Italy... so as someone who has watched virtually every Juve game for the last 2 years let me tell you that Juve's defence was not that much, if any, better then Fiorentina's.

And Kulspruta, I'm right with you on that, I rate Julio Cesar very highly.

[tadm123]

wtf where is Frey?