Dempsey as a defensive mid?

[macheath]

Watching the Guatemala match, the usual puzzle of what to do with Dempsey comes up. Unfair to see him as a center mid, but he vanished out on the right. However, he played aggressively, with more consistency and focus than he's shown. His best work was ball winning and clogging the middle--maybe he's a defensive mid?

[BigKris]

He's got the hard-nosed additude, physicality, and nose for the goal that you like in a target forward. Maybe he can compete with the Ching's and Casey's of the world to be McBride's successor.

[DCFAN96]

The guy plays hard but doesn't seem to have any style or savvy in his play, theres just no way he'll start ahead of Reyna/LD/Beasley/etc in the attack. He'd be worth the look at DM, were still thin there so I'd be worth a look at least.

[Heathens '87]

Watching the Guatemala match, the usual puzzle of what to do with Dempsey comes up. Unfair to see him as a center mid, but he vanished out on the right. However, he played aggressively, with more consistency and focus than he's shown. His best work was ball winning and clogging the middle--maybe he's a defensive mid?


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that he played some at D-Mid in college. I've got to think that Bruce is getting a bit frustated at the lack of progress he's making in a more forward role.

I didn't see the consistency and focus that you mention. I saw a player who is working hard, but is one-dimensional in the attack, not involving his teammates, and is just way too direct and predictable at the international level. Moving him back may help, but do we need him there?! He's not going to be better than Pablo, Armas brings a tenacity and consistency, and there's still Zavagnin. All are far more proven than Dempsey in that role.

His role is undefined at best right now, and along with the Gold Cup, he is continuing to indicate that there may not be another level to his game. If he wants to be a USMNT factor, he should start listening to the coaching he's gotten from Feyenoord and Bruce, as this game isn't going to get him anywhere other than great MLS player who can adapt to the international game....

[FirstStar]

So much talent and potential, so much frustration for us watching him.

Dempsey would be a waste at D-mid, as that takes him too far away from the goal. He can't process the information fast enough to be an A-mid right now (and I don't think he holds the ball well enough or passes into coverage well enough). So, forward or far out right is where he's going to have to make his mark. We are thin in both positions and Clint does have a nose for the goal. He needs to focus and raise his level of play and, if he does, there's room for him on the squad next year.

[subbuteo]

I would love to see him tried as an out-and-out striker

[UxSxAxfooty]

He was tried as an out-and-out striker, in the Gold Cup. Also, he has played up top for New England with significantly less success than in the midfield.

He simply can't handle the pressure on his back playing on the front line. Dempsey likes the ball at his feet where he can run at defenders and create, not knock down long balls to teammates.

Dempsey should never be played at forward again.

[shooter6065]

I have seen this guy play every national team game and he has never played great...........he has played ok sometimes but is usually bad, and against Concacaf competition he can rarely hold up to the pressure, nevermind what will happen against the heavies from Europe. Don't believe me? Watch the USA v England game.

What position does he play? He reminds me of some NFL draft picks that wind up on the roster as utility men but it's always "lets find a position for this guy because he has some athleticism."

I love his hustle and workrate and he seems willing to really mix it up with the opposition but I want to see others get as many chances as him. Clark, Davis, Mapp, Symms, West, more Cunningham etc.

[BigKris]

What position does he play? He reminds me of some NFL draft picks that wind up on the roster as utility men but it's always "lets find a position for this guy because he has some athleticism."


Well, there you go then - we'll have him play special teams.

[xkimo_fire]

Well, there you go then - we'll have him play special teams.

Some people suggested this in the other thread, and there was also an article about it on Yanks-abroad.

Dempsey is probably best in a 3-5-2 formation. Not the holding or attacking midfielder. He really isn't a specialist, but a good two-way player.

Hopefully he takes spends most of his off-season in Europe.

[superdave]

If I were Bruce, I'd play Clint in the pivot of a 3-1-3-1-2 sometime, and see how he does there. That seems to be his best spot with the Revs. That's a role that, knowing what I know now, I'd be comfortable with him starting in Germany. But I'd be hella more comfortable if we tried it out first.

He also was a revelation with the Revolution last year, paired with Shalrie Joseph in Nicol's very flank oriented 4-4-2. But we ain't got no Shalrie Joseph, and besides, no way Clint starts in central midfield when Pablo, JOB, Claudio, and Landon are all options.

[Stan Collins]

So much talent and potential, so much frustration for us watching him.

Dempsey would be a waste at D-mid, as that takes him too far away from the goal. So? He's not his best when playing right in front of goal, anyway. He isn't great finisher, a great distributor, nor does he beat guys one-on-one very often at the NT level. He can give you some goals, but they'll usually come from sneaking into the box unmarked when no one's expecting it.

The real problem with Dempsey at d-mid is that might not take him away from goal (and towards where a d-mid needs to play). Stated another way, it's the position that best suits his physical skills, but it goes against his self-image as a dynamic, aggressive attacker.

I tend to think that if you could turn him into a d-mid at all, you could possibly turn him into a very good one. But I doubt we can do it in the time we have before the WC.

[monop_poly]

So? He's not his best when playing right in front of goal, anyway. He isn't great finisher, a great distributor, nor does he beat guys one-on-one very often at the NT level. He can give you some goals, but they'll usually come from sneaking into the box unmarked when no one's expecting it.

The real problem with Dempsey at d-mid is that might not take him away from goal (and towards where a d-mid needs to play). Stated another way, it's the position that best suits his physical skills, but it goes against his self-image as a dynamic, aggressive attacker.

I tend to think that if you could turn him into a d-mid at all, you could possibly turn him into a very good one. But I doubt we can do it in the time we have before the WC.

I agree with all of this, and it boils down to: Clint Dempsey ain't all that. Now he might be a better D-Mid than Armas ... but that's a different discussion. Arena has no need for another D-mid with Armas/Mastro/Reyna all likely to keep anyone else off the field (not to mention Zavagnin).

[Adam Zebrowski]

dempsey as jack of all trades and master of none, might be his path on the final 23....

being able to back-up many roles just might be the way arena goes??

[StillKickin]

The real problem with Dempsey at d-mid is that might not take him away from goal (and towards where a d-mid needs to play). Stated another way, it's the position that best suits his physical skills, but it goes against his self-image as a dynamic, aggressive attacker.
I think you've summed up Dempsey quite well here.

Here are my thoughts on Dempsey which I posted on the thread regarding his versatility:
I'm not so sure he's actually all that versatile. In MLS maybe, but not at the international level. Because his shortcomings hamper him no matter what position he plays....slow of thought, no change of pace, and poor decision-making. So I'm not sure where the versatility is coming from...if he can't learn to overcome those shortcomings, his effectiveness at any position won't match international play.

Perhaps playing him at D-mid would lessen the effect of his shortcomings, but I don't think so. I think he's really got to improve vastly and quickly on his shortcomings (which doesn't seem to be happening at all, not even a glimpse of improvement) or he may not be going to Germany.

[StillKickin]

dempsey as jack of all trades and master of none, might be his path on the final 23....

being able to back-up many roles just might be the way arena goes??
See, that's what I"m talking about. I'm not so sure he's going to be able to EFFECTIVELY backup many roles due to his apparent shortcomings at the international level.

Guess we'll see. We've still got 2 more qualifiers. But I'd rather invest in Quaranta (or even Adu) as they seem to have more natural "international level" quickness of thought and execution than Dempsey does.

[Thomas19]

The scoring comment, somewhere back there is one argument in which ill have to disagree. We all know Dempsey can score, and to try to judge him by the method by which he scores is stupid. If we did that we'd say Ruud isent all that cause he doesnt finish outside the box, yeah right. Dempsey is not a starter on the USMNT but he does have the ability to be on the 23 without a doubt. If you say dempsey cant beat players then your knowledge of him is limited. For this next World Cup he will be a Utility man, once he puts his mindset with his natural ability he will make a very good D-mid with attacking capeability instead of a decent center mid with good defending capeability. Give the kid time, he is part of the future of US soccer

[Dervos]

dempsey as jack of all trades and master of none, might be his path on the final 23....

being able to back-up many roles just might be the way arena goes??

Don't you have to perform at least marginally well at one of those trades?

I'm very confused by this whole "find room for Clint" thing. Did I miss the games where he was that big of an asset on the field?

When other players don't play well at this level, do people clamor for Bruce to try them out at different positions, and when they don't play well at that position either, clamor for Bruce to find yet another position? When did the national team become a vehicle for Clint Dempsey to find his niche?

Maybe Bruce should just play the guys who play well, and maybe Clint will figure it out, up his level of play, and actually earn a spot on the field. :eek:

[Stan Collins]

Perhaps playing him at D-mid would lessen the effect of his shortcomings, but I don't think so. I think he's really got to improve vastly and quickly on his shortcomings (which doesn't seem to be happening at all, not even a glimpse of improvement) or he may not be going to Germany. I might be a bit more optimistic about that (only a bit), just because the challenge then is mental instead of physical. I certainly wouldn't put any money on it or anything, but I could imagine one of Il Bruce's patented Long Island pull-no-punches speeches where he tells him "If I'm picking the team today, you ain't on it" might change his state of mind.

His mental aggressiveness is probably his best trait, he would just need to be made to realize that the d-mid position would require putting that same aggressiveness to use, just to a very different end. He may not actually be too proud to do it, he may just never have thought of it.

[Stan Collins]

The scoring comment, somewhere back there is one argument in which ill have to disagree. We all know Dempsey can score, and to try to judge him by the method by which he scores is stupid. If we did that we'd say Ruud isn't all that cause he doesnt finish outside the box, yeah right. You misunderstand what I'm saying. Ruud is put in a position where finishing inside the box is far more important than finishing outside it. Ruud is a good box player asked to play in the box. I responded to the other poster saying you needed to play Dempsey close to the box because if you don't you 'waste his talent.' I responded by saying that he isn't so good in the box that you need to worry about this.

When I said his goals are scored at the NT level by sneaking into the box once or twice, I don't mean to denigrate that quality, which is still appreciated, but just to point out that you don't need him to play a position close to the box to do that.

If you say dempsey can't beat players then your knowledge of him is limited. That I'll disagree with. I've seen him beat guys at the MLS level, but MLS is a league (and I say this as a guy who typically defends it) where timidity is often the order of the day, and where you can beat guys one on one a few times a game just by having the balls to try. And nobody doubted Clint Dempsey had balls.

In fact, one of his principal assets as a possible d-mid (besides being willing to give you his heart and soul for as long as he's out there) is being more ballsy than Armas, Reyna, maybe even O'Brien. The question would be whether he'd have more balls than judgment.

For this next World Cup he will be a Utility man We have a lot of guys who can play three positions almost adequately.