LD is NOT a forward

[galperin]

In my opinion, Landon Donovan is NOT a forward. He is an attacking midfielder.

It seems to me that LD is the 1st choice A-mid for the USMNT, and that playing him up top is a waste. He was non-existant vs Mexico up there, and it seems that everytime I see him play up top for da' Bruce, he seems invisible. He seems to play much much better when at A-mid.

I figure most people would agree with me here, but I guess the real question is where will Bruce ultimately play him. With Claudio, it seems as though Bruce prefers to put Reyna at A-mid rather than LD. I think this is a big mistake. I'd much rather see Claudio at R-mid or D-mid, and have LD at A-mid.

What do y'all think?

[dfb547490]

Agree 100%.

[JohnR]

With Claudio, it seems as though Bruce prefers to put Reyna at A-mid rather than LD.

I don't think that's correct. Rather, it is that Arena will do whatever it takes to get Donovan & Reyna on the field together. Sometimes, that might mean moving Reyna out wide, or a 3-5-2 formation, or something else that shifts Reyna. This game, the decision was easy from Arena's viewpoint because EJ was unavailable so Bruce could have his cake and eat it too, just shift Landon up top and keep Reyna in the midfield.

I would bet that when Eddie Johnson is available Landon is back in the hole, behind the two forwards.

[mattjo]

It depends on the lineup. People frequently see that we play with a D-mid, so it is automatically assumed the other central midfielder is an attacking midfielder. Personally, I think most our attacks go up the flanks, particularly against possession teams that try to pass it through the middle. I saw someone suggest DMB and Landon both on the wings, but having the freedom to switch sides. I mean, Stewart used to cheat inside at times, and I know JOB or Reyna are complete enough players that they can cover on the wings if either DMB or Donovan moves centrally. I think I would like to see that with Reyna and Job in the middle. Both players can roam, which gives them the freedom to do their thing, while we have two central midfielders that can play both ways.

[Super White Boy]

Against teams of any quality LD should not be up top.

If Reyna and O'Brien are healthy I think we should put LD out at RM.

That would allow us to have a starting line-up like this:

----------McBride------------Johnson----------


DMB-------Reyna--------JOB--------Donovan---


Lewis---------Gibbs-------Gooch-----Cherundolo-


--------------------Keller-----------------------

I think this makes us extremely dangerous. BMB to hold the ball up top and allow johnson to play off of him. LD and DMB can get up and down the field, that would give us two outside mids that can motor and run with the ball at their feet, take people on (though LD hasn't been doning that as much lately) and who can attack from the flanks. Reyna and JOB can distribute from the middle of the park and help to smother any counter-attacks. Lewis and Cheruldolo can get into the attack and serve the ball in. Gibbs and Gooch give us size at the back (which was lacking against Germany in '02) and control the center of the defense and of course we know what KK can do.

I'd like to see this formation given a look at by Arena.

[cyberthoth]

I aggree...but honestly he's one of only three proven goalscorers we have and the third has been injured.

Landon is better in midfield...but he's not a bad forward...he's likely our best forward not named EJ. Our roster is full of people playing a less-desirable position for the team's overall good.

Reyna, Lewis, Hejduk perhaps even Mastroeni (he's one hell of a CB)

This sort of thing happens at the club level too...ie O'briens stint at LB at Ajax and one could even argue Roberto Carlos was actually a left mid playing his career out of position at left back.

It's not always a bad thing.

[CbR]

if we want to put our most talented players on the field at the same time i think Reyna would have to slide into the RM slot, with Donovan in the middle. Donovan looses all his effectiveness when he plays on the right wing, Reyna is still very serviceable in that position.

But when JOB is available that makes our midfield too crowded and we have to play LD up top. It would work however with a 2-5-3 formation but i dont see bruce doing that in the WC.

--Mcbride--EJ---

-----donovan----
beasley-job-mastro-reyna

--boca-gooch-dolo

i'd love to see this formation during one of our friendlies. Just incase we need to play catch up at the WC

[Dr.Phil]

I would bet that when Eddie Johnson is available Landon is back in the hole, behind the two forwards.


i agree

[Maximum Optimal]

Does anyone remember what position Landon played against Portugal and Germany in the 2002 WC? Does anyone remember whether he "disappeared" in those games? Would his performance in those games have any bearing on anyone's assessment of his ability to perform at a certain position against a strong side in a high pressure situation?

An argument could be made that attacking mid is his best position. Indeed, I would subscribe to this view. But to say he should not be used at forward is absurd. At the moment, he is the best option when EJ is out. Plus we have a lot of talent at midfield when everyone is healthy--Reyna, JOB, Mastro, Convey, Beasley. So much so that someone like Lewis is being moved to LB.

At forward our options are McBride and EJ. And McBride is gonna be 34 by next summer. If one of them is injured/out of form, the logical thing to do is to play Landon at forward.

[bltleo]

Does anyone remember what position Landon played against Portugal and Germany in the 2002 WC? Does anyone remember whether he "disappeared" in those games? Would his performance in those games have any bearing on anyone's assessment of his ability to perform at a certain position against a strong side in a high pressure situation?

An argument could be made that attacking mid is his best position. Indeed, I would subscribe to this view. But to say he should not be used at forward is absurd. At the moment, he is the best option when EJ is out. Plus we have a lot of talent at midfield when everyone is healthy--Reyna, JOB, Mastro, Convey, Beasley. So much so that someone like Lewis is being moved to LB.

At forward our options are McBride and EJ. And McBride is gonna be 34 by next summer. If one of them is injured/out of form, the logical thing to do is to play Landon at forward.

Maximum Optimal.
The WC 02 was the first time I saw Donovan to play and you know
that since this time I like him as a player and I became a fan of USMNT.
I definitely agree with your opinion. He has a talent as attacking midfield. In this area he does the best job. But I think Landon can be used as forward.
You are right that if EJ or MCBridge are out, the best option for forward
is LANDON. Actually I would prefer to see him to play more the position
at forward. Aggressive LD:)

thank you for your opinion

Bltleo
Leverkusen

[Dead Run]

[QUOTE=Maximum Optimal]Does anyone remember what position Landon played against Portugal and Germany in the 2002 WC? Does anyone remember whether he "disappeared" in those games? Would his performance in those games have any bearing on anyone's assessment of his ability to perform at a certain position against a strong side in a high pressure situation?
QUOTE]

This is all true and probably relevant to Bruce's continuing desire for Landon to return to being an effective forward, but it does seem that at this point he and more importantly the team are quite a bit more productive offensively when he's playing the offensive mid. It does create problems because we have other good mids, but I think LD should be playing where Reyna played against Mexico.

[rgli13]

i agree completely that landon is an attacking mid and should play there. however- hes also our third best option at forward.

so when we dont have mcbride or ej then i understand putting him up top.

twellman, ching, casey...SOMEBODY needs to make it a tougher decision to play landon "out of position". and as much as we can speculate as to who CAN play up top effectively for us, the truth is they havent yet.

but the bright side is that now that we are qualified the results arent as important, so we can try guys out there.

as i said, i completely agree that hes not a forward- but i also agree wtih playing him up top rather than a guy who "may" be able to get it done up to this point. i just dont see qualifiers before you qualify as the time to mess around. and yes- our guys who are healthy (twellman, cunningham) would have been "messing around".

[bltleo]

Agree 100%.

And why you agree 100%

Read the post of maximum optimal and remember back WC 02 - game
against Portugal and Germany.

I would not say that LD can not play forward.
Think a bit.

I don´t agree that LD is not a FORWARD!

bltleo

[flash1316]

He looks isolated a lot when he's at right mid though. That's why Arena came up w/ the box midfield. Arena knows what Donovan's best position is. Sometimes he has to play him up top because ---- he's like our second best forward. I actually don't like the box and I'd rather have Quranta on the right. And I can't justify if they're both healthy leaving JOB or Reyna on the bench to play Donovan in the midfield. I propose playing EJ more isolated up top by himself and allowing Donovan to find the space where he wants it. A la Rooney or Ronaldinho. I think when we have Ej, he's the out and out striker and Landon has less getting forward responsibility so he can drop back and pick the ball up deep. I don't know if that's what will happen cause then McBride will sit. But really it's a great thing to think about that come Germany we may have a serious problem with getting our best players on the field. That won't be for a time though because JOB's injured now and Donovan will probably play center mid for the rest of qualifiers. The way I look at it though, its really not a problem. It's a great symbol of our depth and a good problem to have.

[eastex]

In my opinion, Landon Donovan is NOT a forward. He is an attacking midfielder.

It seems to me that LD is the 1st choice A-mid for the USMNT, and that playing him up top is a waste. He was non-existant vs Mexico up there, and it seems that everytime I see him play up top for da' Bruce, he seems invisible. He seems to play much much better when at A-mid.

I figure most people would agree with me here, but I guess the real question is where will Bruce ultimately play him. With Claudio, it seems as though Bruce prefers to put Reyna at A-mid rather than LD. I think this is a big mistake. I'd much rather see Claudio at R-mid or D-mid, and have LD at A-mid.

What do y'all think?

I think that the forwards on the USMNT are usually "non-existant" against quality oponents. We just don't serve many good balls into the box. It seems to me that Arena imposes a pretty strict system onto his players. The forwards are probably not going to be allowed to drift back into the midfield in a 3-5-2, no matter how frustrated they are about not seeing enough of the ball. In that case, it isn't surprising that Donovan didn't do much with the ball. For all we know, Donovan played his assigned role perfectly against Mexico. Sometimes, a good player like Donovan is contributing just by being on the field. Even if he is not getting much of the ball or creating very many chances, the opposing defenders are paying very close attention to him at all times. Putting him up top forces the opponent to defend him, and will create space for other players.

[lurking]

LD is not a midfielder, he is a forward that is best played a little withdrawn. McBride didnt do didly squat against Mexico either. We didnt do a very good job attacking the Mexicans in the run of play.

Actually, Landon actually had a scoring opportunity (McBride didnt as I recall) that he couldnt quite pull off. He did earn a corner on that sequence that led to the DMB goal.

[Wahoo]

In my opinion, Landon Donovan is NOT a forward. He is an attacking midfielder.

It seems to me that LD is the 1st choice A-mid for the USMNT, and that playing him up top is a waste. He was non-existant vs Mexico up there, and it seems that everytime I see him play up top for da' Bruce, he seems invisible. He seems to play much much better when at A-mid.

I figure most people would agree with me here, but I guess the real question is where will Bruce ultimately play him. With Claudio, it seems as though Bruce prefers to put Reyna at A-mid rather than LD. I think this is a big mistake. I'd much rather see Claudio at R-mid or D-mid, and have LD at A-mid.

What do y'all think?

I think that if Landon Donovan wants to be the attacking midfielder in a 4-4-2 he needs to get a whole lot tougher and learn to make his mark on the game (from midfield) against quality opposition in a hurry.

Landon I think works well as a midfielder in a 3-5-2 for the USA, but he's not strong enough or enough of a control and distribute player to be the attacking midfielder in a 4-4-2 even if Reyna is moved to defensive mid.

Just my opinion.
This is where we can have problems... Donovan is a fantastic player, but he's a tweener - someone whose ideal position is not as a true midfielder or a true forward.

[Bigrose30]

LD is not a midfielder, he is a forward that is best played a little withdrawn. McBride didnt do didly squat against Mexico either. We didnt do a very good job attacking the Mexicans in the run of play.

Actually, Landon actually had a scoring opportunity (McBride didnt as I recall) that he couldnt quite pull off. He did earn a corner on that sequence that led to the DMB goal.

McBride had about 25 long balls hit his way, and won probably 10 to 15 of them, plus drew a couple of fouls...including one by Marquez that led to the goal. Often times when he won them he had nobody to nod them to.

Also, especially in the 2nd half, he tracked back to make defensive plays against advancing Mexican players. I thought McBride did much more than didly squat.

Also on a related note, what the hell is Cthulu? My neighbor has tons of bumpers stickers that say that... :confused:

[EEUU]

Even when we play him at forward, he plays more of a withdrawn forward role which makes him more like an attacking midfielder anyway.